[kdejonge]

I actually asked Schiit this a while ago:

 As long as it is a transformer converter and not a switching supply it won’t change anything sonically.

So should be good.

 

[thomascrown]

  I actually asked Schiit this a while ago:
So should be good.

Lovely!

 

[Barry S]

...I'm not sure how I feel about a $1250 dac that drops out at least once an hour over usb. My something is wrong with the usb board in my GMB and the Wyrd is able to alleviate the problem...

There's something wrong here--I'd still send your Gungnir in for service (and likely USB board replacement). The USB Gen 2 board shouldn't need a Wyrd (or any other accessory) to function correctly. Sometimes, the mindset around here makes my head spin. It's great that the Wyrd fixed the issue, but what happens when you want to sell the GMB?

 

[Ableza]

Absolutely.  Quit messing around and get your Gungnir repaired properly.  That's why there are warranties.

 

[MattTCG]

There's something wrong here--I'd still send your Gungnir in for service (and likely USB board replacement). The USB Gen 2 board shouldn't need a Wyrd (or any other accessory) to function correctly. Sometimes, the mindset around here makes my head spin. It's great that the Wyrd fixed the issue, but what happens when you want to sell the GMB?

 
 

  Absolutely.  Quit messing around and get your Gungnir repaired properly.  That's why there are warranties.

Thanks guys and duly noted. I'll get it send in. 

 

[TubemanRQ]

   
I'm having trouble understanding why this would improve the sound quality based on how the Wyrd works. The Wyrd simply replaces the incoming dirty USB power and replaces it with its own linear power, and it reclocks in the incoming signal with a high-precision crystal oscillator. Once the power and signal come out of the Wyrd, they're already cleaned and reclocked...doing it again would just be throwing away clean power and replacing it with equally clean power and then reclocking an already precisely clocked signal. 

I can understand where your thinking is coming from. Yes, the signal is reclocked, AND replaced with a high-quality, very clean, low-noise power supply behind it. The Gungnir also reclocks the incoming data signal with the Adapticlock clock analysis and regeneration system which reclokcs and lowers jitter according to Schiit: "
 
Adapticlock™: Unique Clock Analysis and Regeneration
Both versions of Gungnir include our proprietary Adapticlock system, which provides for both exceptional jitter performance and rock-solid, glitch-free connectivity. Adapticlock analyzes the incoming signal quality and automatically routes it to the best clock regeneration system—either VCXO or VCO-based. And, it does all of this without altering the bit depth or sample rate of your original music."
 
So, according to your logic, WYRD shouldn't improve the sound quality because the signal is already being reclocked by Gungnir?
 
I don't want to say your wrong, or I'm right, all I know is, the WYRD improves upon the Gungnir's jitter-reduction/reclocking with the Adapticlock system.
 
If you look into Theta Digital's Timebase Linque Conditioner (TLC), which was a product Theta Digital produced in the 90's, many audiophile associates of mine were using multiple TLCs back-to-back and having improved sound quality. I think the real question to look into, is, why does data jitter lower sound quality, and how do we lower data jitter in the first place?
 
ALSO, the Theta TLC had a high-current power supply option, which was around $200 more, which was in addition to the TLC's retail price of around $200 at the time. THAT high-current power supply made the improvements to sound quality with the TLC MUCH MUCH greater! In my system, the TLC made an amazing improvement in sound quality, which is similar to what I hear with WYRD. The high-current power supply option added to my TLC made the improvement VERY SUBSTANTIAL in every aspect of sound reproduction. The TLC was only a SPDIF-based interface, SPDIF in, SPDIF out.

 

[TubemanRQ]

   
 
Thanks guys and duly noted. I'll get it send in. 

You are up and running now, enjoying music. Awesome!!
 
Question, does your Gungnir's "Get Better Gear" light come on when it is hooked up? Does that light up with the WYRD AND without the WYRD? My gut tells me it probably lights up without the WYRD, and does not light up WITH the WYRD. Just curious....
 
I still think a dirty power/ high-jitter issue was existant in your system that the WYRD helped to clean up. This allows the Gungir to "lock" onto the incoming data signal better and is benefitted with the reduction in data jitter.
 
Do you also have an isolation transformer/power conditioner for your system?

 

[Shembot]

  I can understand where your thinking is coming from. Yes, the signal is reclocked, AND replaced with a high-quality, very clean, low-noise power supply behind it. The Gungnir also reclocks the incoming data signal with the Adapticlock clock analysis and regeneration system which reclokcs and lowers jitter according to Schiit: "
 
Adapticlock™: Unique Clock Analysis and Regeneration
Both versions of Gungnir include our proprietary Adapticlock system, which provides for both exceptional jitter performance and rock-solid, glitch-free connectivity. Adapticlock analyzes the incoming signal quality and automatically routes it to the best clock regeneration system—either VCXO or VCO-based. And, it does all of this without altering the bit depth or sample rate of your original music."
 
So, according to your logic, WYRD shouldn't improve the sound quality because the signal is already being reclocked by Gungnir?
 
I don't want to say your wrong, or I'm right, all I know is, the WYRD improves upon the Gungnir's jitter-reduction/reclocking with the Adapticlock system.
 
If you look into Theta Digital's Timebase Linque Conditioner (TLC), which was a product Theta Digital produced in the 90's, many audiophile associates of mine were using multiple TLCs back-to-back and having improved sound quality. I think the real question to look into, is, why does data jitter lower sound quality, and how do we lower data jitter in the first place?
 
ALSO, the Theta TLC had a high-current power supply option, which was around $200 more, which was in addition to the TLC's retail price of around $200 at the time. THAT high-current power supply made the improvements to sound quality with the TLC MUCH MUCH greater! In my system, the TLC made an amazing improvement in sound quality, which is similar to what I hear with WYRD. The high-current power supply option added to my TLC made the improvement VERY SUBSTANTIAL in every aspect of sound reproduction. The TLC was only a SPDIF-based interface, SPDIF in, SPDIF out.

You're right about Adapticlock -- Wyrd really shouldn't do anything. My understanding is that the 5V on the USB is only used for the handshake, so dirty power shouldn't matter (the Gungnir is powered by its own power supply), and the reclocking shouldn't matter because the Gungnir already has an advanced clock regeneration system. And yet...Wyrd improves Gungnir, not only in my experience or collective community experience, but even in Jason's experience (he says in his chapter on Wyrd that he uses it with his Gungnir/Mjolnir system). 
 
So I do see your point. If one Wyrd doesn't make sense, then two (or more) Wyrds doesn't really make less sense. While the engineer in me feels silly doing it, I'll have to bring home my Wyrd from work and try two in series at home tonight.

 

[TubemanRQ]

 
You're right about Adapticlock -- Wyrd really shouldn't do anything. My understanding is that the 5V on the USB is only used for the handshake, so dirty power shouldn't matter (the Gungnir is powered by its own power supply), and the reclocking shouldn't matter because the Gungnir already has an advanced clock regeneration system. And yet...Wyrd improves Gungnir, not only in my experience or collective community experience, but even in Jason's experience (he says in his chapter on Wyrd that he uses it with his Gungnir/Mjolnir system). 
 
So I do see your point. If one Wyrd doesn't make sense, then two (or more) Wyrds doesn't really make less sense. While the engineer in me feels silly doing it, I'll have to bring home my Wyrd from work and try two in series at home tonight.

Yes, I'd like to hear what your experiment with two WYRDs in series does!  As a side note, I also use several Powervar power conditioners in series, back to back and it sounds better than just using one.
 
This day and age, everybody has cell phones, most homes are using wifi routers...everything is going wireless and we are being bombarded with more and more RF interference and noise. I feel that anything we can do to lower noise, especially in power supplies and from the incoming AC will improve the sonics of our systems.

 

[Shembot]

  Yes, I'd like to hear what your experiment with two WYRDs in series does!  As a side note, I also use several Powervar power conditioners in series, back to back and it sounds better than just using one.
 
This day and age, everybody has cell phones, most homes are using wifi routers...everything is going wireless and we are being bombarded with more and more RF interference and noise. I feel that anything we can do to lower noise, especially in power supplies and from the incoming AC will improve the sonics of our systems.

I haven't tried expensive power conditioning, but I've tried a Tripp Lite Isobar Ultra 8 and a Brickwall, and I found that my system sounds best plugged into my plain Wiremold hospital grade power strip without any filtering or surge suppression. I've done this test over and over with different headphones at different times of day, and I keep coming to the same conclusion. It really shouldn't make any difference, and if it does, you'd think it'd be positive, so it's strange...but it's got me sticking with the regular strip. I'm currently using very nice, effective EMI/RFI shielded power cables, but they don't sound any different than the cords that come with the gear (they just make me feel better). Perhaps I just don't have any real noise issues going on with my power.

 

[TubemanRQ]

 
I haven't tried expensive power conditioning, but I've tried a Tripp Lite Isobar Ultra 8 and a Brickwall, and I found that my system sounds best plugged into my plain Wiremold hospital grade power strip without any filtering or surge suppression. I've done this test over and over with different headphones at different times of day, and I keep coming to the same conclusion. It really shouldn't make any difference, and if it does, you'd think it'd be positive, so it's strange...but it's got me sticking with the regular strip. I'm currently using very nice, effective EMI/RFI shielded power cables, but they don't sound any different than the cords that come with the gear (they just make me feel better). Perhaps I just don't have any real noise issues going on with my power.

Yeah, MOST power conditioners are touted as such and really do not do much to address noise on the AC, even more importantly, noise on the neutral line. I have found, in my experience, that Powervar power conditioners are the REAL deal. You can find them relatively inexpensive on Ebay for around $250-$300 or so. If you buy them new, they can run around $2500 or so. I would recommend the 10-amp versions and up. The Powervar ABC1000 and up.
 
They have a HUGE toroidal isolation transformer, and an industrial-grade pi filter after the isolation. They use heavy gauge wiring. 12 AWG wiring on the toroidal transformer for the 10-amp versions, and 10AWG wiring on the toroidal transformers for the 16-amp and up. They also have a VERY low output impedance, and can legally tie neutral to ground and eliminate noise on the neutral leg because of this.
 
I cannot listen to my system without my Powervars. Here is aYoutube video describing and demonstrating Powervar's philosophy and how their products work to lower noise on the neutral and hot, compared to a few other products: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOO89uHEprM  this is Part 2, also check out Part 3 which should show on the right. 
 
Cheers!

 

[TubemanRQ]

Sheldaze is right, you can hear more clues on your home stereo system than on headphones. Here is another part of Mike Moffat quote "Those users with good time domain response speakers are well equipped to hear spatial cues should be impressed if imaging is a priority for them. Such cues are far more difficult to hear on headphone systems, but should be audible with the best phones."

That is EXACTLY what I hear with GUMB vs D/S Gungnir. Better spatial and ambient cues, along with GOBS and GOBS more inner detail and music "within the music."

 

[Argo Duck]

I agree it seems silly. Yet - certainly in science - silly things sometimes pay off. for your finding...

So I do see your point. If one Wyrd doesn't make sense, then two (or more) Wyrds doesn't really make less sense. While the engineer in me feels silly doing it, I'll have to bring home my Wyrd from work and try two in series at home tonight.

 

[ToddRaymond]

That is EXACTLY what I hear with GUMB vs D/S Gungnir. Better spatial and ambient cues, along with GOBS and GOBS more inner detail and music "within the music."

Good to know, thanks! I just ordered one two nights ago, and I very much look forward to implementing it into both my two channel and headphone setups.

You know, in case you were all wondering.

 

[RCBinTN]

 
I have about 80-hours on the Gumby and love the sound, but today I sent it back to Schiit Audio for repairs (Gumbye).
 
Seems I was able to ham-fist the optical connector and break off a piece of the connector to the DAC, so it would no longer accept an optical cable.  Oops.  Played it for awhile on USB and it didn't drop out, but IMO it doesn't sound as good (didn't try it with the Wyrd).  Hope to have it back next week.  I also advised the Schiit Techs about the 5-6 drop-outs I've experienced running on 100% optical input from the Mac, maybe they can find something.  Different problem than what MattTCG experienced.