[Peaceofmind]

"Schiit audio really is a populist audio company. We want to offer the best value products. It therefore has limited products in its line; simplifying the line makes us more efficient. We try to pack in as much as possible at every price point. Understand, we make DACs from $100 to $2300. Generally, our products are compared to products selling for much more. We do not offer multi-colors or D/A converters with volume controls built-in. The Yggy has high enough output to be used with an external attenuator. So get one if that is what you want. We cannot please everyone.". Quote posted today from Mike Moffat at a Computeraudiophile forum.

I myself am planning on getting a Gungnir multibit by early next year. I'll take a look under the hood for those jumpers.

 

[AndreYew]

If I go to Schiit website and look at the a close up picture of the Gungnir circuit board, I can read this "6A 120V/250V, 50-60HZ" where the power cord connects to the board. And what I see that appears to look like a rectangular black jumper right next to each large transformers. It would make sense financially for Schiit to use power supply transformer with multiple 120V or 250V taps rather then to built two voltage specific power supplies.

Those are not jumpers. They're bridge rectifiers: the first component of a circuit that turns AC into DC.
 
The label on the power cord jack means the jack itself can handle both voltages, not that the circuit is designed to handle both.

 

[Peaceofmind]

Thanks for that info, will buy a transformer in that case.

 

[ToTo Man]

Apologies if this observation has already been made, because I'll admit that I haven't read all 165 pages of this thread, however I'm going to put my neck on the line and risk ridicule by revealing that in my main stereo system, using SINGLE-ENDED, Bifrost Uber sounds better than Gungnir Multibit.  
 
I am in a fortunate position to have an old school amplifier that has seamless switching between inputs with no latency or silences, so I can A/B back and forth between two DACs in real-time, making any subtle differences easy to detect.  
 
I will preface by saying that these two DACs are extremely close sound-wise, and that if I didn't have the facility to A/B back and forth in real time, then I would have no hope of differentiating between the two models.  
 
However when A/B-ing, Bifrost Uber sounds livelier and more exciting than Gungnir Muiltibit.  Gungnir Mulibit is slightly smoother and more laid back, but ultimately sounds slightly distant and veiled compared to Bifrost Uber.  
 
Identification of these differences required some concentration, and was made harder due to the fact that Bifrost Uber sounds fractionally louder to my ears than Gungnir Multibit (not by much though, perhaps only 0.5dB max difference), but after accounting for this I remain confident in my findings.
 
 
I was wondering if anyone else shared this opinion, and had a possible explanation of why Bifrost Uber would sound preferable to Gungnir Multibit?  The only logical explanation I can think of is because I am using the single ended outputs, which are reputed to be worse than balanced (sadly my main system amplifier does not accept balanced inputs so I am unable to put this theory to the test).  Either that or it is just my ears that prefers the sound of Bifrost Uber.  
 
Thoughts?

 

[sheldaze]

^ Lucky you 

 
I do agree that the Bifrost Uber sounds more lively, and a tad louder. But that's it - in every other conceivable way, the Gungnir Multibit sounds considerably better, to my ears, than does the Uberfrost.
 
And yes, I'm using it currently in single-ended mode. I will either need to update all my electronics to balanced, or find a different DAC for single-ended use in my stereo system. I'm working on a different DAC option, as I feel the GMB will be permanently connected soon to a Liquid Carbon, in balanced mode.
 
What style of music do you listen to? I'm not sure what to suggest 

 

 

[Argo Duck]

^ @ToTo Man it really is critical to check SPL levels with either an SPL or multi-meter. I remember comparing two amps and - by ear - getting them equal in volume. This particular pair sounded very similar. Until I took an SPL meter to them!  My by-ear equalization sucked!
 
But assuming they really are matched within 0.5 dBA as you assert I don't think this finding exposes you to ridicule. There are many, many variables and hence few absolutes. In fact, it's not uncommon to hear of (even sub $1000) components that 'outperform' others "many, many times their price".
 
And no doubt they do for some listeners with some gear combinations at some points in their journeys. I've been there once or twice. I've also found what sounds good one year may not do the next

 

[Liu Junyuan]

Apologies if this observation has already been made, because I'll admit that I haven't read all 165 pages of this thread, however I'm going to put my neck on the line and risk ridicule by revealing that in my main stereo system, using SINGLE-ENDED, Bifrost Uber sounds better than Gungnir Multibit.  

I am in a fortunate position to have an old school amplifier that has seamless switching between inputs with no latency or silences, so I can A/B back and forth between two DACs in real-time, making any subtle differences easy to detect.  

I will preface by saying that these two DACs are extremely close sound-wise, and that if I didn't have the facility to A/B back and forth in real time, then I would have no hope of differentiating between the two models.  

However when A/B-ing, Bifrost Uber sounds livelier and more exciting than Gungnir Muiltibit.  Gungnir Mulibit is slightly smoother and more laid back, but ultimately sounds slightly distant and veiled compared to Bifrost Uber.  

Identification of these differences required some concentration, and was made harder due to the fact that Bifrost Uber sounds fractionally louder to my ears than Gungnir Multibit (not by much though, perhaps only 0.5dB max difference), but after accounting for this I remain confident in my findings.


I was wondering if anyone else shared this opinion, and had a possible explanation of why Bifrost Uber would sound preferable to Gungnir Multibit?  The only logical explanation I can think of is because I am using the single ended outputs, which are reputed to be worse than balanced (sadly my main system amplifier does not accept balanced inputs so I am unable to put this theory to the test).  Either that or it is just my ears that prefers the sound of Bifrost Uber.  

Thoughts?

Nice comparison, and it is cool you can switch so easily. In addition to what the previous replies already said, I would add that you actually need to be able to switch to the balanced outputs on the GMB as well in order to attribute this to the SE on the GMB. It could just be matter of preference, that you prefer the Bifrost Uber sound, or it could be that your amp and transducers interact better, to your ears, with the "more lively" ds DAC.

 

[mikoss]

Those are not jumpers. They're bridge rectifiers: the first component of a circuit that turns AC into DC.

The label on the power cord jack means the jack itself can handle both voltages, not that the circuit is designed to handle both.

Also, the fusing would be different. Half the current would be producing the same power at double the voltage... Leaving the fuse sized for the lower voltage and applying a higher one means that a fault could destroy your equipment.

It's kind of silly to make speculations about how products are wired, and then to suggest modifications to people blindly. I understand trying to help people, so the easiest/best way is to simply suggest buying a step down transformer, as suggested above by others.

I don't understand the hostility towards companies for designing products with one voltage in mind... I would prefer to pay less myself and have an owner who wants to use a different supply foot the bill for buying the transformer. They aren't terribly expensive, and it isn't like Schiit is trying to make anyone buy two models.

With regards to a more lively sounding presentation, I'm wondering if this is because of a more compressed sounding noise floor. I have a couple of amps that definitely sound more lively themselves, at the cost of overall dynamics. Everything seems to have a bit of snap, whereas comparing vocal presentation allows me to understand where they're less natural sounding. I also have a tough time with the treble of some DS dacs. This is where the Gungnir pulls ahead into deal breaker territory in my opinion. How do you find the vocals and treble in comparison?

 

[ToTo Man]

  ^ Lucky you 

 
I do agree that the Bifrost Uber sounds more lively, and a tad louder. But that's it - in every other conceivable way, the Gungnir Multibit sounds considerably better, to my ears, than does the Uberfrost.
 
And yes, I'm using it currently in single-ended mode. I will either need to update all my electronics to balanced, or find a different DAC for single-ended use in my stereo system. I'm working on a different DAC option, as I feel the GMB will be permanently connected soon to a Liquid Carbon, in balanced mode.
 
What style of music do you listen to? I'm not sure what to suggest 

 

 
Quite a wide variety of stuff, mainly melodic rock, folk rock, some easy listening, basically anything that's been well recorded and is not a victim of the loudness wars!
 

  ^ @ToTo Man it really is critical to check SPL levels with either an SPL or multi-meter. I remember comparing two amps and - by ear - getting them equal in volume. This particular pair sounded very similar. Until I took an SPL meter to them!  My by-ear equalization sucked!
 
But assuming they really are matched within 0.5 dBA as you assert I don't think this finding exposes you to ridicule. There are many, many variables and hence few absolutes. In fact, it's not uncommon to hear of (even sub $1000) components that 'outperform' others "many, many times their price".
 
And no doubt they do for some listeners with some gear combinations at some points in their journeys. I've been there once or twice. I've also found what sounds good one year may not do the next

 
Point taken regarding SPLs, I'll need to check more closely.  Then again, if Bifrost Uber is more 'lively' in certain frequencies, then you would naturally expect this to push up overall SPL levels, hence SPL matching becomes a moot issue (i.e. "chicken or egg" argument)?
 

Nice comparison, and it is cool you can switch so easily. In addition to what the previous replies already said, I would add that you actually need to be able to switch to the balanced outputs on the GMB as well in order to attribute this to the SE on the GMB. It could just be matter of preference, that you prefer the Bifrost Uber sound, or it could be that your amp and transducers interact better, to your ears, with the "more lively" ds DAC.

 
I've listened to the balanced outputs on the GMB through the Mjolnir 2 and ETHER headphones and it does sound better than the SE.  Hard to put into words but the overall sound is more floaty and holographic and spacious, particularly in the mids.  But this comparison is pretty useless unless I pull my Bifrost Uber out of my main system and connect it to my headphone rig!
 

With regards to a more lively sounding presentation, I'm wondering if this is because of a more compressed sounding noise floor. I have a couple of amps that definitely sound more lively themselves, at the cost of overall dynamics. Everything seems to have a bit of snap, whereas comparing vocal presentation allows me to understand where they're less natural sounding. I also have a tough time with the treble of some DS dacs. This is where the Gungnir pulls ahead into deal breaker territory in my opinion. How do you find the vocals and treble in comparison?

The vocals and treble do seem slightly clearer and more 'up front' on the BifrostUber and with more ambience.  Perhaps I'm mistaking this for compression, which would be embarrassing as I am anti-compression! 

 

[sheldaze]

Diving back into my cranium, I do recall now that the difference was subtle. That is, I have low-end amp and headphone collection (to be upgraded later), and I only heard a significant difference on one of my four primary headphones. For example, I did not hear much difference on my HD650, which already sounded fantastic to my ears through the Uberfrost. The difference was much more noticeable, however, on my speaker system, which has vastly higher grade components. It was also fantastic on that one headphone, which was the first I randomly selected to use.
 
If you plan to eventually move in the direction of the Ether and Mjolner grade of components, I think the DAC upgrade makes sense.

 

[ToTo Man]

  Diving back into my cranium, I do recall now that the difference was subtle. That is, I have low-end amp and headphone collection (to be upgraded later), and I only heard a significant difference on one of my four primary headphones. For example, I did not hear much difference on my HD650, which already sounded fantastic to my ears through the Uberfrost. The difference was much more noticeable, however, on my speaker system, which has vastly higher grade components. It was also fantastic on that one headphone, which was the first I randomly selected to use.
 
If you plan to eventually move in the direction of the Ether and Mjolner grade of components, I think the DAC upgrade makes sense.

I currently have Ether[size=x-small], Gungnir Multibit and Mjolnir 2 on home trial.  I think Ether sounds fantastic, by far the best headphone I have heard to date (but that's probably not saying much as I've not heard that many high-end headphones!)  My main reference headphone until now has been Sennheiser HD600 but Ether is a clear step up in clarity, soundstage and transparency (to be expected of course given the huge price difference!).  HD600 is still amazing for the price though.  Ether has sounded stunning on every source/amp I have tried with it, even directly through my iPod it is excellent!  Sadly I cannot afford to upgrade (yet!)...[/size]
 
[size=x-small]I have tested [GMB -> single ended -> Mjo2 -> Ether] vs [GMB -> balanced -> Mjo2 -> Ether], and after correcting for the significant SPL difference, balanced sounds better with more 3D presence and ambience in the mids, put simply it is like moving forward a row or two in a concert hall, a very subtle effect but noticeable nonetheless.  [/size]
 
[size=x-small]I have also repeated the same test but taking the single ended output of Mjo2 into my hifi power amp and main speakers, and again [GMB -> balanced -> Mjo2] sounds better than [GMB -> single ended -> Mjo2] with the same differences I observed when comparing the two methods of connection using the Ether headphones.  I wish I had a balanced hifi power amp to test the FULL potential of GMB and Mjo2 using balanced throughout the entire chain.[/size]

 

[reddog]

That was a very informative impression , thanks for sharing. And agree the ETHER sounds superb out of the Gungnir Multibit and Mjolnir 2. I hope you have a good day jamming out.

 

[Peaceofmind]

Sheldaze is right, you can hear more clues on your home stereo system than on headphones. Here is another part of Mike Moffat quote "Those users with good time domain response speakers are well equipped to hear spatial cues should be impressed if imaging is a priority for them. Such cues are far more difficult to hear on headphone systems, but should be audible with the best phones."

 

[Wildcatsare1]

Update on my problems with drop out over usb. I received the Wyrd this morning and the music has been playing for about four hours with perfect playback. Also, call me crazy but resolution is better and the noise floor is noticeably lower. :blink:   I know that there are bias involved here but I swear I hear an improvement using the Wyrd. 

Even with a new pc built from scratch with a high end Corsair psu, I still got drop prior to adding the Wyrd. I'm not sure how I feel about a $1250 dac that drops out at least once an hour over usb. My something is wrong with the usb board in my GMB and the Wyrd is able to alleviate the problem. Not sure. I do know that the sound is the GMB is the real deal and the best improvement I've made to my chain in a long time. 

At this point I'm glad to be listening and enjoying music again frustration free. 

Glad to hear that your back in business Matt! That Wyrd is a magic little box, ain't it (grammar thrash purposeful).

 

[thomascrown]

 
Nothing wrong with that idea. I use a Goldsource 220V-120V step down transformer for my 1995 EAD CD-1000 Series III (240V) that I bought from Europe. It's better than going through the effort to get it modified and switched.

Absolutely, at the beginning I wasn't happy about the idea as most of the trasformers are big, bulky and heavy, but after I bought the Taurus (I couldn't wait any longer the LC ), it's the only solution I have. I just wonder if they could introduce some noise or buzz.