[H20Fidelity]

The Highsound Studio V is something like 13x the price of the Clip+. It is easier to use a different headphone with the Clip+ instead(or to use a Fiio E6 with the V6).

I never said you had to go out and buy it did I? Please show me where I said that? Because that's what you're assuming.

All I stated was they sound good together, get off my case and think before you post.

 

[H20Fidelity]

The Highsound Studio V is something like 13x the price of the Clip+. It is easier to use a different headphone with the Clip+ instead(or to use a Fiio E6 with the V6).

I'm going to make a second post on this. It's post like this that really aggravate me on Head-Fi and tempt me to leave. I really wish people would think and read posts properly before they try to jump down members necks.

All I did was recommend the members I "quoted" to check out an amp that's doing well within the community, then comment how nice Studio V sounds with Sony MDR V6. Never did I recommend it, never did I say members should be considering or buying the Studio, 'just they sound nice'. Only afterwards, comeback to find a member who I am not even allocating my conversation too quote me with some nonsense. I really wish people would think a little more and have some consideration, the way JK1 quoted me was almost like he skim read my post and couldn't wait to have some kind of back lash towards me. I find that unacceptable, also unproductive. it's people like that who make others stop posting.

But obviously, it won't be as simple for JK1 to come back and say "sorry, I misread your post' there will need to be some complication or debate about it trying to defend his position, I assume. That's the kind of things I'm talking about.

 

[luisdent]

Zip Clip people! Haha.
 
I've researched the hell out of this topic and found that other than the screen and some firmware changes the devices are identical with identical sound.  So, the bigger screen gives you more room for text.  I say put rockbox on it.  It's stable and much more customizable.  I just bought a 64gb card (works with rockbox not sansa firmware completely) and it only cost a total of $100 with the player and card.  With the size and sound quality... That's a value.  I'm falling in love with this thing.  I use it with my er4s and no amp now.  Only on the very quietest songs does it only provide average listening volumes.  Otherwise the sounds is great.  Uber portable.  Highly recommend it so far.

 

[Achmedisdead]

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An amp will not improve the SQ of the Zip, it will simply give you more power so it will play louder.

 
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That is not completely correct. If the player can't drive the headphones well enough, such as with the Sony V6, then adding an amp will help the sound quality. Without an amp the V6 sounds constrained when hooked up to a Clip+ or Clip Zip. If the player can adequately power the headphones to very loud volumes though, then an amp probably won't improve the sound quality.

 
But adding an amplifier is not improving the SQ coming out of the Zip itself. The signal coming out of the Zip is not changing at all. The amplifier is boosting that same signal, to allow use with more demanding headphones. The end result the user hears out of whatever hard-to-drive headphones are in play may be better, which is what you are thinking of, but the inherent sound of the Zip itself remains the same. 

 

[luisdent]

Quote:

 
 
But adding an amplifier is not improving the SQ coming out of the Zip itself. The signal coming out of the Zip is not changing at all. The amplifier is boosting that same signal, to allow use with more demanding headphones. The end result the user hears out of whatever hard-to-drive headphones are in play may be better, which is what you are thinking of, but the inherent sound of the Zip itself remains the same. 

 
I would agree with you both.  Technically, there is no sound quality improvement in terms of details, frequency response, etc.  The zip sounds very reference for the price.  However, if you can't play your headphones loud enough, I suppose you could call that a lack of quality, at least in terms of the range of volume.  A quality of a different type.  It will definitely sound better to someone who can listen at a proper volume level, rather than straining to hear things.  While people with more sensitive phones don't need the extra headroom, therefore they wouldn't benefit at all, nor would they need to.
 
I've compared the zip to my ipod touch 5g using a BTG line out cable into my C5 amplifier.  Sounds 95% identical.  That last 5% isn't really a "quality" difference in the "music" sound itself, but rather the noise floor is just a tad more apparent at the loudest volumes.  The difference is exactly 7% of the ipod touch volume.  In other words, if I volume match the ipod to the zip and turn them both up until they are as loud as they can go, the zip exhibits noise a little more.  If I match the ipod/c5 volume to produce the same exact amount of noise as the zip at max volume, I need to turn the ipod down to 93% for the music to be the same volume as the zip music.  In other words, if I didn't turn the ipod volume down, but rather turned the C5 down with the ipod maxed and matched volumes, the zip noise would be that much higher.
 
This is a very small amount, and with any earphones the noise becomes audible near the 90% volume area.  The touch has zero noise at max volume straight from the headphone output, but it's also a bit quieter at max volume, so you can't compare that way, because you could match the zip volume by turning it down to the ipod level and the noise would be gone.  Basically, what I'm saying is that the ipod line out is a small amount cleaner noise-wise, but this is a very small amount.  I only notice the noise with extremely quiet music and the zip maxed with quiet passages.  And then it is still extremely low noise.
 
This doesn't go away with amping.  So, headphones only I'd say the zip sounds better.  In fact, the zip sounds identical quality wise to the ipod line out (minus the noise difference).  The ipod headphone out (5g at least) is NOT the same.  It is softer in the details.  It is less distinct and energetic sounding.  This becomes very clear with certain songs switching between the devices and the line out as well.
 
Just some impressions...

 

[JK1]

it isn't just a matter of average volume, but if the built in headphone amp is running very close to maximum then there isn't the necessary headroom for the peaks, and thus the headphone sounds constrained. If the headphone and player combination  can play much louder than necessary, then there is plenty of reserve power for the peaks.

 

[Tanjent]

is this right??
 
If player does not have enough juice... it wont drive the diaphragm, and it wont vibrate thru its full movement range..thus not producing optimal sq?

 

[luisdent]

it isn't just a matter of average volume, but if the built in headphone amp is running very close to maximum then there isn't the necessary headroom for the peaks, and thus the headphone sounds constrained. If the headphone and player combination  can play much louder than necessary, then there is plenty of reserve power for the peaks.

I'm not sure. I don't know about higher impedance headphones, but even with my er4s at 100ohms, my zip sounds identical (minus the aformentioned noise floor) to my ipod line out amped with the c5. Absolutely no difference in frequency, dynamics, etc.

I don't see why other headphones would be any different. They'd just be quieter. Granted, any amp running at 100% probably has increased distortion, etc. but this is inaudible with all the iems i've tested even at 100% again compared to the ipod line out amped. But we're still talking about gear less than $500. The c5 has noise too at the highest volumes even with the line out. But that's pretty loud unless you're listening to quiet stuff (i do). The biggest improvement either could have is less noise with more output, but they're still the best i've heard in this range...

 

[JK1]

The combination of the Clip+ and the V6 plugged directly into it constrained to me. The V6 sounds good to me though with a more powerful source. I don't know the exact mechanics of it, I just know that that combination doesn't reflect the V6 or the Clip+ at its best.

 

[luisdent]

Quote:

The combination of the Clip+ and the V6 plugged directly into it constrained to me. The V6 sounds good to me though with a more powerful source. I don't know the exact mechanics of it, I just know that that combination doesn't reflect the V6 or the Clip+ at its best.

 
It's very possible.  Different headphones can have different results with the same amp.  Not ruling that out.  But my er4 are 100 ohms and your v6 should be around 63ohm.  So that shouldn't be a negative factor.  Is anything else different with the clip?  Are you using the same format files, etc.?  I hear a huge difference between lossless and ANY mp3 for instance.  I can only tolerate high bitrate aac files, and even those are still detectable from lossless to me in a double blind test (although much more critical listening is necessary).  If "all" else is equal than I suppose you just don't have a good match.  But make sure everything is setup properly, no eq or effects are on, etc.  File formats are the same.

 

[JK1]

In general I notice that the Clip+ and Clip Zip seem to do best with 16 ohm earphones, but are also pretty good with headphones of earphone 32 ohms and under, and at least 96 db/mw. Even with Something like the 60 ohm Koss Portapro, the Clip+ and Clip Zip seem to be struggling to adequately power them.

 

[luisdent]

In general I notice that the Clip+ and Clip Zip seem to do best with 16 ohm earphones, but are also pretty good with headphones of earphone 32 ohms and under, and at least 96 db/mw. Even with Something like the 60 ohm Koss Portapro, the Clip+ and Clip Zip seem to be struggling to adequately power them.

It must be the phones though. My 100ohm er4s have no strain. So i don't think it's just the impedance...

 

[HeatFan12]

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I never said you had to go out and buy it did I? Please show me where I said that? Because that's what you're assuming.

All I stated was they sound good together, get off my case and think before you post.

 
 
LOL...Where u at H20?....We miss u in the Ultrasone thread...

 

 

 

[Achmedisdead]

Quote:

In general I notice that the Clip+ and Clip Zip seem to do best with 16 ohm earphones, but are also pretty good with headphones of earphone 32 ohms and under, and at least 96 db/mw. Even with Something like the 60 ohm Koss Portapro, the Clip+ and Clip Zip seem to be struggling to adequately power them.

I have used the Koss Portapro, KSC75 and KTXPro1 with my Rockboxed Clip+ and ClipZip over the last few years, and they work just fine together. Maybe you need better quality files.....

 

[JK1]

Quote:

I have used the Koss Portapro, KSC75 and KTXPro1 with my Rockboxed Clip+ and ClipZip over the last few years, and they work just fine together. Maybe you need better quality files.....

The quality of my files are fine. Few are the very new CDs with reduced dynamic range and a very high volume.  These are perfectly fine with my lower impedance headphones.
I have tried the Clip+ with a number of different headphones, and it always seems to struggle with headphones Over around 50 ohms, and these closest to 16 ohms seem to be powered with ease. I didn't try any headphones under 96 db/mw.