RSA SR71b, quad mono balanced. img. 1 & 17 Review pg 32, 34, 68, UPDATED 4/2013 for Improved sound.

[pelorus32]

First post from a very new Head-Fi addict!! Most of my listening to date has been with transducers that sit on the floor and weigh 35kg each 

 
However I've become addicted to getting the sound direct to my ears. So here's my thoughts on the SR-71B which I've owned for a couple of weeks now. Setup is iPodTouch running Apple Lossless > SR71B > Etymotic ER4-P. All single ended. Music is Rock, Jazz, Classical...
 
I loved the SR71-B the first time I heard it - clean, clear, slightly warm but very balanced and transparent. Nice pace, regardless of the type of music. Decided to buy it and decided I should maybe bite the bullet and get the CLAS-dB as well, so I listened to that. I didn't like it. In fact I hated it, and the worst was that the reasons weren't consistent. Overall it seemed to remove the complexity from the music and leave voices and instruments nicely rounded and ever so polite. So I left it in the shop.
 
Over the next week the SR-71B really came into its own, the burn in was amazing. The bass filled out and tightened up and the whole signature developed more body but still remained clear crisp and taut. At one stage, for a few hours, voices became sibilant but then that stage passed and the overall impression is of a very integrated and complete sound.
 
So thinking I must have missed something I went back and did an A-B with the CLAS-dB both SE and balanced using an ALO copper interconnect. Some songs were better with nice detail, but only around 5-10% better, others were worse...muddy at times, polite and lifeless at others. It made no difference whether it was SE or Balanced. So much to the surprise of the sales guy I again left the CLAS-db in the shop. If I'm going to shovel out over AUD$800 I want a consistent improvement in what I hear. I don't get that with the CLAS.
 
So I was pretty surprised about that. It may be that we've reached the limits of the transducers and that with something better than the Etys I would hear the improvement. It may be that my ageing ears are simply not up to the task. Whatever the case I was pretty surprised not to like the CLAS, but overwhelmingly happy with the Blackbird.
 
I listened to the JH13 and JH16 during the week - pre FreqPhase and loved them both. So this could get expensive
 
It may not align with what other people experience, but that's my experience so far... from a very inexperienced HeadFier.

 

[Mooses9]

im using the original CLAS with the blackbird and i find it to be extremely good. overall the original CLAS i feel is better as its using a High end Wolfson Dac, where as the newer CLAS are not, they are using dac simular to the hpp1 which imo are not as aggressive in sound and find the original CLAS to be pretty aggressive. the Original Clas + SR71B is excellent. i have only compared single ended as i havent and dont know if im going to make the jump to the Balanced Ended cable.
 
Besides the differences in dacs, i feel you might also get a different impression with your interconnects, im using the toxic cable silver poison usb to lod, and toxic cable silver poison mini to mini, i also use the Whiplash SCSCag 24awg cryo'd silver 7N UP-OCC with Viablue connectors <-- i find this interconnect to synergize extremely well between the 71-B and CLAS.
 
aside from that you may be right, that you are only going to be able to extract so much from the  Ety's  i think you might be at the end of the road on those, but there are definitly better iem's that will be able to give you a extension in sound that the ety's may lack.
 
i personally believe its all going to come down to pairing between the interconnects and the amp that may make the differences. i went from the ALO sxc24 to the Toxic silver poison SOLO interconnects and it made a huge difference.

 

[pelorus32]

Thanks for the response. I guess I think about a couple of things:
 
First, if the difference is so subtle that the only way to hear it is with updated interconnects and cables then I think it's not worth over $800. I can understand that you might get subtle improvements over and above the improvements that the DAC delivers. If you have to resort to upgrading cables in order to hear the improvement in the first place, then I think that's a problem...Where is the improvement coming from - the DAC or the cables?
 
Having said that I think there's probably a more fundamental issue that somebody might be able to help with. Thinking about this over the last 24 hours I've realised there might be a LOD problem. The iPod Touch has a lightning connector. The LOD I was given was Apple Lightning to 30 pin > 30 pin to 3.5mm stereo jack. I suspect that means that the CLAS -dB was fed an analog signal from the iPod Touch because of the decode that happens to get an analogue signal in the Lightning to 30 pin adaptor.
 
What LOD should I have used with the CLAS from the Lightning connector to deliver digital to the CLAS?
 
Learning slowly here

 

[Mooses9]

Well the thing you have to take into consideration is that the better the interconnect cables you use the cleaner the signal between the amp and dac are going to be.

Depending on the type of cable you are using be it copper silver plated copper or pure silver this will also give you a difference in sound signature between the dac and amp.

For instance when I went from the alo audio sxc24 solo interconnects to the pure silver interconnects there was a huge differences in signal cleanliness clarity in sound it really opened up the 71b and solo clas.

In this hobbie little improvnents have a tendacy to cost alot of money. But its trying to extract every little bit out of the equipment at hand.

Also in my opinion the improvments are coming from both the dac and amp and interconnects. When you start feeeding the amp and dac cleaner signals the iems are going to pick up those signals and present them to you in cleaner overall sound. Better lows mids highs wider soundstage closer vocals ect.

Essentially pairing everything together will extract every bit out sound quality possible. Sometimes its extremely expensive.

 

[LFC_SL]

That's the sound of diminishing returns in the background. Source material / dac / headphones > amp > interconnects
 
If you cannot hear what difference the Clas -dB is bringing to the table, or do not consider the difference that you are able to hear as justifying x price-tag then why worry about it. Consider yourself fortunate you even had the opportunity to demo and call it money saved. Just because you read something on Head-Fi (or the internet in general) does not mean you will experience it also.
 
Reading someone advise another member to spend three figures on cables in order to justify purchasing a $630 dac is something else...

 

[pelorus32]

Quote:

That's the sound of diminishing returns in the background. Source material / dac / headphones > amp > interconnects
 
If you cannot hear what difference the Clas -dB is bringing to the table, or do not consider the difference that you are able to hear as justifying x price-tag then why worry about it. Consider yourself fortunate you even had the opportunity to demo and call it money saved. Just because you read something on Head-Fi (or the internet in general) does not mean you will experience it also.
 
Reading someone advise another member to spend three figures on cables in order to justify purchasing a $630 dac is something else...

That's just how I feel - I have no regrets about not buying it. If I can't hear the difference then why would I?
 
However I suspect that the guys in the shop did not pay attention to making sure the interconnects were right and so I did not actually audition the DAC Rather I just listened to it being fed an analogue signal from the iPod's DAC!!
 
Might go back and do that at some stage.

 

[Mooses9]

I hope you dont think I was advisng anyone to spend. Glob of money on cables. That isnt what i was getting at.

Do also understand that with in ear monitors your only going to be be able to extract so much sound from them before its time to upgrade the iem's before thinking of upgrading a dac.

It is necessary for good cable combo pairing to get that balanced sound. And have everything working together. Just because he couldnt hear the difference with his current iem's doesnt mesn theres not a difference to be had.

 

[zitounesup]

Am thinking about getting the SR-71B with a CLAS - I do not have either now - after I heard the MK3-b+ still has the hiss with IEM.
I just bought a pair of CIEM and was thinking about the Centrance M8 or the CLAS+Mk3-b+. ALO confirmed to me the hiss was still present with their new release so am now considering the SR-71B which seems to have no such issue.
 
Do you know how's the battery life? My local reseller was mentioning 20hours.
 
Compared to the Intruder, dis anyone made a comparison? I pretty like the warranty life of the SR-71B
 
Thanks!

 

[Mooses9]

Quote:

Am thinking about getting the SR-71B with a CLAS - I do not have either now - after I heard the MK3-b+ still has the hiss with IEM.
I just bought a pair of CIEM and was thinking about the Centrance M8 or the CLAS+Mk3-b+. ALO confirmed to me the hiss was still present with their new release so am now considering the SR-71B which seems to have no such issue.
 
Do you know how's the battery life? My local reseller was mentioning 20hours.
 
Compared to the Intruder, dis anyone made a comparison? I pretty like the warranty life of the SR-71B
 
Thanks!

the benifit to the mk3 with the clas is one it has the same footprint as the clas which is very nice.
 
a thing to think of with the sr71-b and the intruder, first Ray is offering a upgrade to the SR71-B which gives you the intruder gain specs, ive also heard ppl say that there are other aspects that give the sr71-b better sound quality, i bought my 721-b with the intruder revision so i cannot comment on the sound before, but it sounds excellent and the intruder gains are excellent.
 
so the thing to think about is that the sr71-b is a amp and only a amp, where as the intruder is both a amp and a dac. so if you are thinking about getting the CLAS, you have to think that when you use the intruder with the clas you are essentially going to be running through the intruder DAC then through the CLAS DAC. This imo isnt going to give you a exact representation of either dac.
 
if you are going to be using the CLAS then the sr71-b is going to be a better choice as its just a AMP ( and dont get me wrong its a exceptional amp not JUST a amp lol) but usingt he 71b with the clas will give you a exact representation of the CLAS with the AMP.
 
then take into consideration SOLO interconnects, this will also give you different aspects of sound depending on what you are using, i used the ALO Audio sxc24 usb to lod and ALO sxc24 mini to mini for some time, and thought they were pretty good, until i went with the Toxic Cables silver poison usb to lod and toxic cable silver poison mini to mini and it really presented ALOT more of everything that the sxc was not. again im not encouraging you to pay 500.00 for cables. but note that a cleaner signal from the source to the dac then from the dac to the amp will give you a better representation of the 2 along with better transparency. 

 

[zitounesup]

Thanks for the long reply Mooses9.
If you use a SE or balanced input of the Intruder, this should by-pass the internal DAC and therefore act as the SR-71 if my understanding is correct.
Any idea when this upgrade has been done or how I recognise the item having it?
Thanks!

 

[Mooses9]

Quote:

Thanks for the long reply Mooses9.
If you use a SE or balanced input of the Intruder, this should by-pass the internal DAC and therefore act as the SR-71 if my understanding is correct.
Any idea when this upgrade has been done or how I recognise the item having it?
Thanks!

should be digital into the clas and analog out, passing the analog signal through the intruder would in turn be bypassing the DAC.
 
However the intruder was made to really be one unit dac and amp, not saying you cant bypass the dac section and use the amp...but then comparing the intruder amp to amp section how much better is the intruder vs the 71b, i mean to really garner the extra cash, esp if you are basicly only using half of the unit.
 
as far as the sr71b upgrade. like i said the gains are the same with the high being +21, there has been talk that people notice a difference in sound quality from stock form to revision form, like i said also i didnt own the sr71b prior to the intruder spec upgrade so i cannot say if there is a difference in sound quality or not.
 
i would imagine that you may be able to contact ray with the serial number and maybe there is a way he could say one way or the other, since all the upgrade is internal you arent going to be able to tell otherwise.

 

[Audio Addict]

Am thinking about getting the SR-71B with a CLAS - I do not have either now - after I heard the MK3-b+ still has the hiss with IEM.
I just bought a pair of CIEM and was thinking about the Centrance M8 or the CLAS+Mk3-b+. ALO confirmed to me the hiss was still present with their new release so am now considering the SR-71B which seems to have no such issue.

Do you know how's the battery life? My local reseller was mentioning 20hours.

Compared to the Intruder, dis anyone made a comparison? I pretty like the warranty life of the SR-71B

Have you looked into Ray's new F35 Lightning? It is due out anytime. The only warning is it has no single ended output for headphones only the RSS balanced.

Thanks!

 

[Stoney]

IIRC, Ray told me the SR-71B is more powerful than the Intruder. 
 
Cables are odd.  There are some inexpensive cables that are pretty good, but rarely excellent.  The signature of the HD650 cable is very clear to me and different from most any good cable, but also different from other inexpensive ones.  Inexpensive cables have more diminution of the sound and the areas of "damage" tend to sound a bit different from one design to the other. Expensive cables by top companies who have a track record of iterations converging on an ideal neutrality tend to sound alike.  Small maker cables designed as tone controls or compensation (e.g. silver) for flaws (e.g. slow headphones) are not the way to my thinking; get a better headphone and not try to fake it by using two wrongs (nonlinear errors) to sound like one right (FR accuracy without nonlinear—irreversible—errors).  
 
When you buy a good cable, if chosen wisely, you are rejecting the flaws imposed by inexpensive cables (materials, lack of design effort or experience, lack of manufacturing able to achieve quality).  It helps to think of it that way: just like with glass, in which a stack of them reveals a green color and ripply distortions, it is harder to make glass that isn't there than one that is "there" perceptually.  Most cables are just not excellent enough for me. So I have no problem spending half the cost on cables as I do on the phones.  

 

[Mooses9]

IIRC, Ray told me the SR-71B is more powerful than the Intruder. 

Cables are odd.  There are some inexpensive cables that are pretty good, but rarely excellent.  The signature of the HD650 cable is very clear to me and different from most any good cable, but also different from other inexpensive ones.  Inexpensive cables have more diminution of the sound and the areas of "damage" tend to sound a bit different from one design to the other. Expensive cables by top companies who have a track record of iterations converging on an ideal neutrality tend to sound alike.  Small maker cables designed as tone controls or compensation (e.g. silver) for flaws (e.g. slow headphones) are not the way to my thinking; get a better headphone and not try to fake it by using two wrongs (nonlinear errors) to sound like one right (FR accuracy without nonlinear—irreversible—errors).  

When you buy a good cable, if chosen wisely, you are rejecting the flaws imposed by inexpensive cables (materials, lack of design effort or experience, lack of manufacturing able to achieve quality).  It helps to think of it that way: just like with glass, in which a stack of them reveals a green color and ripply distortions, it is harder to make glass that isn't there than one that is "there" perceptually.  Most cables are just not excellent enough for me. So I have no problem spending half the cost on cables as I do on the phones.  

I agree I have spent over 900.00 on pairing all of my cables westone toxic cables silver poison cable,toxic cable silver poison usb to lod,toxic cables silver poison mini to mini.

Then my dac is the cypher labs algorhythm solo

And sr71-b amp

Im my opinion cables are a crucial ingredient to the recipe for phenomenal sound. Paring is imparitive.

Does anyone know whathe the mw+mw@X ohm is for the sr71b?

Doesnt the intruder have a larger voltage swing?

 

[Stoney]

I haven't checked the RSA website lately or looked in reviews on the web.  
 
All I have in my emails is this, when I asked about the Protector: 
 
 
"SR-71B has better power handling with higher voltage swing & much more powerful buffer to drive the hardest headphones in the World.
It is the most powerful amp in the World.
Cheers.
Ray Samuels"
 
(My inference was clearly that he meant "portable" amps.)