Review: ZERO 24 BIT/192KHz DAC/Headphone Amp/Pre-Amp
Aug 22, 2008 at 8:17 PM Post #5,491 of 9,388
First let me just say that I never heard the PICO.
I do not think a portable amp, even the mighty PICO, will be able to drive the HD-580 properly, maybe it can do a somewhat decent job, but it won’t drive the senns to its full potential.

Second, with the money the PICO costs, you can get a much better amp, not a portable one, but a much better amp, no doubt about it. Third, I think you would have to wait some time on the pre-order list, unless you where contemplating a used one.

If you search on the forum for PICO+HD650/600/580, you will find that most would agree that a portable setup, even the PICO, would not be ideal.

Again, for the cost of a PICO amp(w/DAC) you can get ZERO+Little dot MKV/MKIVse, and these two amps (or one from darkvoice) will most certainly drive the Seens and any other cans you may want to try, even 600 impedance cans.

And I know for a fact that a Ibasso boa wont properly drive any 300ohm, I've tried, no good.
 
Aug 22, 2008 at 8:32 PM Post #5,492 of 9,388
AP I think the key to the tweak is not the uf size (although I agree in principle with your assertions) but the voltage rating. The key requirement from Burson said no less than 50 V ...I don't think getting any larger than 1uf will help...it might actually put too much strain on the voltage regs as they are now...they get really hot...feel em...

Just a uneducated guess...I think I'll fire off a email to Burson and see what they say about it..

I wonder if one of the massive teflons I have would prove the theory ? They are 600V and ten times the size of the 1uf PIO but 1/4 the uf value...seems like a waste of a very expensive cap though.....problem with that is burn in takes 700 + hours...maybe longer

Just thinking out loud...

Peete.
 
Aug 22, 2008 at 9:36 PM Post #5,493 of 9,388
Weird...DHL says scheduled for delivery (since last night) and yet nothing all day and it's getting darn close to 6 pm...ah well looks like no modules for the weekend unless they deliver on Saturdays...which is a bad word in Canada....
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Peete.
 
Aug 22, 2008 at 10:26 PM Post #5,494 of 9,388
Just got my Zero, and it sounds wonderful. It can really drive my headphones well and the bass and resolution is wonderful.

The only two disappointments is that it cannot play SACD and the headphone nob around 12-4 o clock feels like im grinding against sand.
 
Aug 22, 2008 at 11:03 PM Post #5,496 of 9,388
SACD is a locked data stream like DVD-A with MLP...the license for such a thing is very expensive and would not be granted anyway...I know of very few standalone DAC's of any price range that can decode hi rez DSD or LPCM MLP signals...so being disappointed in something that would never happen in a DAC for 139 US is a false negative in reality. Just thought I'd point that out...besides SONY has dropped all support for SACD and DVD-A died a couple years back. I was very upset over this since it represented a quantum leap forward in SQ when the discs were in fact recorded at 24/96 to begin with and were not just dubs from the archive from which the CD masters were made...that was it's initial downfall...DVD-A anyway...and the utter lack of software for ages...at least SACD is better supported but with SONY pulling out those tittles will dry up to a puddle as well....sorry for the blah blah blah....
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They should have stuck with 2 channel to boot...the 5.1 thing is very hard to get right in a multi use room...I know I'm still trying with DVD-A....that also put the public off..having to buy all that extra gear..even though it wasn't absolutely necessary. Some hi rez discs had 2 channel mixes..but not enough did IMO and that irked me....so I was forced into 5.1 on some recordings which as mentioned earlier put loads of traditional audiophiles off as well as noobs....nevermind the added expense, but for some truly comical FX 5.1 mixes...another head scratch moment IMO, that seemed to be fianl straw with the Hi End community. Why SACD's foibles were overlooked and DVD-A's derided has me wondering why SACD was embraced by the hi end elite...for SACD had just as many terrible 5.1 mixes ...something rotten in Denmark. I mean it was this smae community that complained about high freq noise/hash present in the DSD decoding method ....something the LPCM MLP format lacked entirely...again..something rotten in Denmark.....alas...I yap too much
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I have to admit if the system and room are set up right, a good intelligent 5.1 mix is spine tingling...in either format save DVD-V or Dolby Digital..sorry 16/48 ain't hi rez..

My 2 cents whether anyone wanted it not.....


Peete.
 
Aug 22, 2008 at 11:03 PM Post #5,497 of 9,388
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pricklely Peete /img/forum/go_quote.gif
The key requirement from Burson said no less than 50 V


Yep. Because it's tied to both + and -, the voltage the capacitor will see is double everything else on the Zero PCB. 16v/25v/35v caps are fine between ground and one power source, but the two back-to-back will double the voltage seen to 30v, or 36v on devices running at +/-18v.

Hence, IMO, the 50v requirement.

Though it would be interesting to see what Burson have to say on the matter. They're surely more familiar with the device than me
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.

I think I'll sit on the fence for a while before ordering a suitable capacitor. Though I may head down to Maplin and see what electrolytics they do. Darned Farnell/RS have a better choice but aren't local... have to spend £20 + VAT to get free delivery. And I'm not paying £6 to have a pair of capacitors delivered
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.

~Phewl.
 
Aug 22, 2008 at 11:06 PM Post #5,498 of 9,388
Quote:

Originally Posted by alxwang /img/forum/go_quote.gif
X2.

Live with that or replace that. I choose to live with that for now.
icon10.gif



Just pull the knob 1mm further down from the shaft. Or, even better, remove it and put a drop of silicon sealant on the end of the shaft. It'll keep the knob further away from the faceplate.

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~Phewl.
 
Aug 22, 2008 at 11:23 PM Post #5,499 of 9,388
Hey 802...er 3 posts
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Peete.
 
Aug 22, 2008 at 11:29 PM Post #5,500 of 9,388
Quote:

Originally Posted by AudioPhewl /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Yep. Because it's tied to both + and -, the voltage the capacitor will see is double everything else on the Zero PCB. 16v/25v/35v caps are fine between ground and one power source, but the two back-to-back will double the voltage seen to 30v, or 36v on devices running at +/-18v.

Hence, IMO, the 50v requirement.

Though it would be interesting to see what Burson have to say on the matter. They're surely more familiar with the device than me
smily_headphones1.gif
.

I think I'll sit on the fence for a while before ordering a suitable capacitor. Though I may head down to Maplin and see what electrolytics they do. Darned Farnell/RS have a better choice but aren't local... have to spend £20 + VAT to get free delivery. And I'm not paying £6 to have a pair of capacitors delivered
wink.gif
.

~Phewl.



Interesting....yeah I'm not holding my breath I'll get an answer since I called them on their HDAM scam...but you never know. I have a feeling it acts like a tiny current reserve while filtering the DC a little more of ac component if there is any at that point of the circuit. I doubt there is any but extra filtering is sometimes a good thing...going overboard with filtering is as bad as not having enough..so it's a fine line.

Why not pick up a Vitamin Q or Aerovox for cheap from your local TV/Amp repair shop...good NOS PIOS are hard to beat
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Peete.
 
Aug 23, 2008 at 12:44 AM Post #5,501 of 9,388
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pricklely Peete /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Why not pick up a Vitamin Q or Aerovox for cheap from your local TV/Amp repair shop...good NOS PIOS are hard to beat
smily_headphones1.gif



Peete.



Can't think of any local TV repair shops these days. We live in a throwaway culture over here... nothing much gets repaired these days.

There was one place here, but it closed at the end of last decade. Can think of another in a nearby town, but I reckon they'll have closed down as well. We used to have rental shops too, but TVs and the like are so cheap these days, I guess nobody needs to rent them any more.

Just been watching my weekly Star Trek:- Enterprise. We get two episodes per week, both after midnight on a Friday evening. What irks me is when they show a normal episode, then the first of a two-part one - I now have to wait a whole week to find out the conclusion. Most annoying.
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Congrats on the big 800
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.

~Phewl.
 
Aug 23, 2008 at 12:46 AM Post #5,502 of 9,388
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasp3r /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Just got my Zero, and it sounds wonderful. It can really drive my headphones well and the bass and resolution is wonderful.

The only two disappointments is that it cannot play SACD and the headphone nob around 12-4 o clock feels like im grinding against sand.



Quote:

Originally Posted by alxwang /img/forum/go_quote.gif
X2.

Live with that or replace that. I choose to live with that for now.
icon10.gif



Hey guys, pull the stock knob straight off, then re-insert it and stop before it hits the face plate. Sometimes, the knob is on too tight, and it will rub the faceplate until you correct it. Hopefully, this helps some.
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Aug 23, 2008 at 12:47 AM Post #5,503 of 9,388
This is going to sound terribly noobish, but here it goes. In the review there is always two opamps mentioned, does that mean the DAC and Headphone section each have thier own opamp and you should change both, even if you'll only be using the headphone out. If so, what is the best combo for warm, full bodied sound and industrial/rock and roll at the same time. Thanks.
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Aug 23, 2008 at 12:52 AM Post #5,504 of 9,388
DAC has one opamp.
Headphone amplifier stage uses two.

Both sets of opamps are duals.

DAC output, whether to the headphone amplifier or the RCA sockets on the rear of the casing, comes through the DAC opamp before it goes anywhere else. The headphone amplifier a pair of opamps for driving the headphones, but the signal is still processed by the DAC opamp.

Hope that helps clarify
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. It made sense as I was typing, but reading back...
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~Phewl.
 
Aug 23, 2008 at 1:13 AM Post #5,505 of 9,388
Quote:

Originally Posted by AudioPhewl /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Can't think of any local TV repair shops these days. We live in a throwaway culture over here... nothing much gets repaired these days.

There was one place here, but it closed at the end of last decade. Can think of another in a nearby town, but I reckon they'll have closed down as well. We used to have rental shops too, but TVs and the like are so cheap these days, I guess nobody needs to rent them any more.

Just been watching my weekly Star Trek:- Enterprise. We get two episodes per week, both after midnight on a Friday evening. What irks me is when they show a normal episode, then the first of a two-part one - I now have to wait a whole week to find out the conclusion. Most annoying.
L3000.gif


Congrats on the big 800
wink.gif
.

~Phewl.



I hate that with reruns...you should uh...procure the the entire DVD collection and watch at your leisure
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It's getting harder and harder to find local repair shops that deal with tubes and amps because of the state of things as you aptly noted. Oddly it's near impossible to find this type of repair shop in a large population urban center but in the boonies they seem to be fairly prevalent still (in Canada and US anyway)...luckily I live in a town small enough to have two shops...one being a swap shop/ pawn/tv amp repair, the other a music store that deals in vintage amps/instruments...pawned gear etc...I pop in every once in while to see what's what...left my name and number in case either come across something of interest.

Any pawn shops in your area AP ?


Peete.
 

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