Quote:
Originally Posted by robm321 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Approaching a decade to come up with a low Q plastic and to slap a ring driver in a headphone
I'd say that makes them incompetent or liberal with the truth. Either way, I simply think what they invested in it is irrelevant. If they spent 100 years researching it makes no difference. How you feel about the sound is all that really matters.
About Uncle Erik's post which stated something on the order of "if your not a basshead the HD800s are the phone for you" I don't think he meant that directly. I might be wrong, but I think he meant the HD800s do well if bass is not a priority. Not that it makes all other options mute.
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The concept of the HD-800 is simple enough. It's the details and execution that take the time. A counter to the marketing argument is that Sennheiser chose to release these when they did. If they had pushed production in 2007, for example, I think sales would have been substantially more. Putting them out into this economy most likely means that a substantial effort was made to refine and perfect them. I still think the price is too stiff, but the HD-800 is a fully realized, well executed product.
About the bass, there seems to be a real divide about it in this community. Some prefer an overwhelming, visceral impact. That's what is heavily marketed in all levels of consumer audio. When you buy a new car, even, there's much fanfare about subwoofer options. When was the last time you saw anything devoted to midrange or tweeters? Same with all consumer stereo sets - how many inches and watts are devoted to the subs is a huge marketing tactic. People like loud bass that can be felt. The rest isn't all that important and rarely gets much ad copy.
Since we're getting into personal biases, I'll go into mine. I spent a number of years playing the big clarinets and tuba and still do on occasion. When I play, I don't go for an overwhelming bass. You can, of course. Since you can put more air through a tuba than any other instrument, it is the loudest one in the orchestra.
But should a tuba be the loudest instrument in the orchestra? Should it be played over all the other parts because you can "feel" it? No. The point is to blend in with the rest of the music - it has to be there, but it cannot go before everyone else.
Further, when you play, you are constantly listening to your own pitch and intonation to make sure you're playing correctly. Moreover, you are also listening to the rest of the instruments to make sure you blend in and balance with the whole. You are not playing to give yourself a kick in the kidneys with bass impact. That might be the point of a fuzzed out, distortion-laden bass guitar with effects pedals, massively overdriven tubes and saturated transformers. When you're doing that, intonation and blending in don't matter much.
To bring this together, when a transducer is sloppy and imbalanced for the visceral feel, I can't hear the intonation and pitch of the low instruments. Having played them, there's nothing more frustrating than not being able to hear what the tuba player or plucked bass is actually doing. It's also frustrating not to hear them in the proper context with the rest of the group.
These are things that the HD-800 does exceedingly well. So do the K-501, K-1000, DT48, ESL-63, and much else that gets trashed as "bass shy," "polite," and other euphemisms. But for someone who plays the low end and listens critically at how bass interplays with the rest of the music, this gear is wonderful.
This is a matter of priorities, taste and musical preferences. I know I'm in the minority. But for those of us who do listen this way, the HD-800 really gets things right. I understand the appeal of visceral bass and why it markets so well, but am thankful Sennheiser chose (and they did choose - they could have given us the Sennheiser Beats) to give a bass presentation that is critically correct. There aren't many headphones or speakers that get the balance right. This is one of them. If anyone thinks this is a cop-out or design flaw, spend some time going to classical concerts and pay particular attention to the low end. You won't find many headphones or speakers that get it right.
While on the topic, this is much the same reason why showing up sibilance on a recording doesn't much bother me. Sibilance is all over in live performances. If a headphone reproduces it, no big deal. I don't expect headphones to correct a wrong note, either. The reason I don't think the highs are tipped forward at any particular frequency is because that would also produce unnatural sounds in other areas. The HD-800 sounds "right" top to bottom, so I don't hear other evidence of an unnatural curve.
Another point on the highs is that a lot of people haven't had a lot of exposure to quality high-frequency sound. Aside from live performance, you usually have to go into transducer exotica to find it. Generally, that means transducers with extremely low mass, like electrostats, ribbons, planars, and AMTs. The HD-800 is one of the rare dynamic drivers that gives you the airy feel of an unconventional, exotic driver. Pulling that off with correct bass in a dynamic driver is quite an achievement.
This also gets back to my comments on consumer grade gear. Since the majority of the buying public only cares about bass, a bunch of el cheapo tweeters are used - they know consumers don't care. If consumers did care, you'd find a range of ribbons and planars driving the highs in speakers at Best Buy or in your car. Consumers don't care.
Further, this is the reason why we have the Loudness War. Compression ain't about maxing out the highs. Compression is all about making a subwoofer thump. People pay money to hear a subwoofer thump and buy recordings to make a subwoofer thump. That's why the two are so prevalent and inescapable. Consumers are getting what they want. It doesn't matter whether that sound is true to life, making sales is what's important.
To get away from the personal, I think people should be able to buy products that make them happy. If they want the subwoofer sound, fine. There's lots of products for them. An entire industry for them. But when an excellent product comes out that doesn't thump, that does not make it a bad product. Some of us - a minority, for sure - deeply appreciate and love it.
I suppose I could write a comprehensive review of the JVCs, DT770s, Denons, et al., and stack them up against the Quads, DT48, K-1000, and HD-800. I don't think I'd have much trouble pointing out the flaws I hear in their bass and how it ruins the cohesive whole of a symphony. But I don't do that because I know the DT770 is for a particular market that I am not a part of. That's OK. I know those products have loads of appeal to some people and I think they deserve to enjoy them.
Also, the unreliability is predominantly in the treble, where the measuring array interacts with the headphone, which produces standing waves and comb-filter effects. As to the HeadRoom curves specifically, they show a uniform distortion pattern throughout the lineup – which hints at a less than ideal equalization. 
