[Hayang]

What I did was, after the main layer of dynamat (some ~2mm thick) I placed another square of dynamat in the center of the cup and doubled it on itself so the tack was facing the driver, and then etched a lot of ridges into the black tack.  Maybe that is a little more in line with what you and the other guy were saying? (Though you seem to disagree about the matter of how much dynamat was used)
 
At this point I don't clearly remember what previous unmodded cups sound like but as mine are now they sound as good as they have always been XD
 
One thing that definitely sounded bad was putting the whole oval of stock foam right over that thick layer of dynamat.  It was pretty clearly muffled sounding and unfamiliar.  If the foam were thinner or the dynamat was thinner maybe it would have worked a little better.
 
Just for the record, I am not experienced at this kind of thing, I just listen to music.  I was left kind of confused after all the posts about the right way to mod them.

 

[SLCanhead]

Woodies vs. stock -
 
I finally tried replacing my woodies with the "stock" FA-003 closed caps a week or so ago, for those that care to read on. In getting the process of  getting caught up on the last several pages of posts, I decided it was finally time to get it over with - so others can see another opinion.
 
I didn't leave the stock cups on for too long (maybe a couple of hours), being that I felt pretty decisive in my conclusions, at that point. Not to say that on another day, it wouldn't be possible for me to be feeling, hearing, and ultimately looking for something a bit different.
 
I will note that my left ear has been a bit plugged up. But, it hasn't affected my previous experience with the woodies with the exception of a shift of presentation to the right, so I am making an assumption that it would be similar with either set of cups when at 100 percent.
 
Personal results with the stock cups (all IMO, IME, and definitely YMMV):
- Noticeable increase in overall detail. "Glossed over" w/the woodies is a good description.
- Noticeable decrease in "distance" of instruments and voices, more of a forward presentation and midrange prominence.
- Probably a closer to original representation of overall soundstage (as it sounds out of a monitor), lack of any potential "hall effect".
- Reduction of soundstage width and a bit of depth. 
- Decrease in openness/air and separation of instruments. Felt like walls closed in around me, particularly to the side.
- Loss of sense of recording space/venue and possibly a bit of 3rd dimension of instruments/voices in certain cases (not quite as fleshed out in depth.)
- Increase in bass detail, but a decrease in overall impact and richness.
- Slight upper mid/lower treble peak, a bit grating at sporadic moments.
- Generally a bit more "flat" and possibly more natural sonic signature (probably more monitor-like), minus the slight upper midrange/lower treble peak mentioned above.
- Loss of air and sparkle
- Loss of "mojo"...what draws me into the music
 
The terms used above are on a relative scale. What may be considered "minor" to one made what I consider a noticeable difference relatively speaking, so take that for what it's worth.
 
The main thing that "bothers" me with the woodies that is not an issue with the stock cups is that the main vocal track in particular on sporadic recordings can be a bit too distant. Secondarily (as mentioned), there are some particular details, such as pick noise, string noise, vocal characteristics, horn reverberations, etc. that can be somewhat lost - some more than others.
 
In the end, I am willing to give up the detail, "unaltered" soundstage and more forward presentation/increased midrange prominence, in order to gain the extensive openness/air/sparkle, smoothness, evenness (no peak), and ultimately the "mojo". The woodies remind me of some of the main positive attributes of a cool vintage setup, culminating in simply getting lost in the spaciousness...chillin' out. Obviously having the best of both worlds is optimal, but I am not trippin' over it. As previously stated, I will get better cans when the time comes. 
 
I just thought of a good comparison specific to what I consider mojo for those that can relate to this experience - it was like when I swapped the stock HD650 cable for a Stephan AudioArt Equinox cable. The latter more refined, at the expense of the sparkle and mojo.
  
Note: This wasn't meant to slam the stock cups. I am just trying (again) give a varying opinion for others to get a feel for the difference, to one man's ears. The attributes that I care about most and ulitmately please my ears, may not be your "priority" (or you may just hear it differently.)
 
Oh...and I did "cheap out" on the woodies

 
 

 

[jums]

Im confused,
 
Are the fa-003 the same as the fa-002 in terms of drivers, except one is closed, one is open?
If they are different would it be better to get the fa-003 and then buy the wood cups or just buy the fa-002w?
 
I may be completely off the plot, but could you guide me in the right direction?

 

[Hayang]

The FA-003 and FA-002 are exactly the same except for the cups.  The stock FA-002 has open grilles as their cups, while the stock FA-003s have closed metal/plastic cups.  The closed stock FA-003 seems to be better regarded than the open stock FA-002.
 
The FA-002w, however, comes with closed wooden cups installed instead of the open grilles (but the FA-002 grilles also come included but packaged separately, and you might be able to personally request to have the FA-003 plastic cups instead of the FA-002 grilles).  So the FA-002w is pretty much a FA-003 with wooden cups.
 
FA-002: open
FA-003: closed
FA-002w: closed (wooden)

 

[jums]

Quote:

The FA-003 and FA-002 are exactly the same except for the cups.  The stock FA-002 has open grilles as their cups, while the stock FA-003s have closed metal/plastic cups.  The closed stock FA-003 seems to be better regarded than the open stock FA-002.
 
The FA-002w, however, comes with closed wooden cups installed instead of the open grilles (but the FA-002 grilles also come included but packaged separately, and you might be able to personally request to have the FA-003 plastic cups instead of the FA-002 grilles).  So the FA-002w is pretty much a FA-003 with wooden cups.
 
FA-002: open
FA-003: closed
FA-002w: closed (wooden)

Thank you, this is what I thought was going on!
 
Does the stepping on the inner of the wooden cups (the 'amphitheatre') alter the sound at all?
 
I assume the different woods also resonate differently, would anyone know what the best wood would be regarding sound and price?
Or are the differences so minute you might as well go with the one that looks best and is cheaper?
 

 

[jums]

 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hayang /img/forum/go_quote.gif

...The FA-002w, however, comes with closed wooden cups installed instead of the open grilles (but the FA-002 grilles also come included but packaged separately, and you might be able to personally request to have the FA-003 plastic cups instead of the FA-002 grilles).  So the FA-002w is pretty much a FA-003 with wooden cups...
 

 
If I was to order the FA-002w, which would be the better stock cup to request? (In terms of a difference in sound, what I mean is which stock cup would offer the greatest comparison to the wooden cups? The open or the closed? Or, if the closed cups really do sound alot better then I'll just request those.)
 
 

 

[eimis]

I'd go with closed.

 

[jums]

Quote:

I'd go with closed.

Cheers,
 
Love the avatar, IMO one of the best albums ever.

 

[jums]

@LFF
 
Ive been looking at your FA-011 review aswell, both seem very tempting.
Are the FA-002w worth the $100 dollar extra? I would be using with ZuneHD and FiiO E11.

 

[yann3804]

Quote:

@LFF
 
Ive been looking at your FA-011 review aswell, both seem very tempting.
Are the FA-002w worth the $100 dollar extra? I would be using with ZuneHD and FiiO E11.

I have the FA-002w. They sound really good, they have a more open presentation than the stock FA-003, but I think you will experience some resonance in some cases.
It's certain that the $100 extra won't get you a super-noticeable difference, but there definitely is a more open presentation (think of a hall room). I also found the sound to be more natural when playing acoustic music (acoustic music with woodies works very well)...
 
 

 

[jums]

Quote:

I have the FA-002w. They sound really good, they have a more open presentation than the stock FA-003, but I think you will experience some resonance in some cases.
It's certain that the $100 extra won't get you a super-noticeable difference, but there definitely is a more open presentation (think of a hall room). I also found the sound to be more natural when playing acoustic music (acoustic music with woodies works very well)...
 
 

Sorry, i know this, what i was asking was whether the $100 difference between FA-011 and FA-002w/FA-003 is worth it when using with a ZuneHD and fiio E11?
 
Thank you though
 

 

[FlySweep]

Sorry, i know this, what i was asking was whether the $100 difference between FA-011 and FA-002w/FA-003 is worth it when using with a ZuneHD and fiio E11?

"Better" is a very subjective term.  What constitutes "better' to you?
 
Where the the 003 & FA-011 differ most is the sound signatures, it's not as much about one being "better" than the other.  Would I pay $100 more for the 003? Absolutely.  Not cause it's "better" than the 011.. because the sound signature of the 003 is more akin to my taste.
 
From a purely technical standpoint, the 003 is a more neutral, accurate sounding phone.  The 011 is more airy & fun.  I love the 011, it's a change up in audio flavor that is a perfect compliment to the 003.  The 003 sounds excellent amped & unamped.  The 011 require an amp to sound good.  I don't own the the E11 but I have run the 011 through the E5 and they sound very good.. so I'm confident the E11, which is more robust than the E5, will drive them fine.
 
If I was forced to choose between the two and money wasn't in the question, I'd go with the 003.  

 

[FlySweep]

I pulled the Dynamat off the cups tonight and lined them with some custom leather dampers I made.  Hit up your local craft store and pick up a leather strip or two (take the 003's stock (felt) damper with you to ensure you will have enough leather for two dampers), also pick up some double-sided Scotch tape, and I recommend using a utility knife to stencil out the tough leather.  The pointed tip cuts through the tough leather surface quite well in just a couple of runs.
 
Removing the dynamat was a bit of a PITA cause of how well stuck on it was to the cups.. it's impressively tough from an adhesive standpoint.  I used a flat head screwdriver to edge and pick away at the dynamat, while slowly peeling away.. I tried to keep the dynamat in one piece as I peeled them off the cups cause it made for less residual glue being left on the cups.  Don't bother getting every miniscule bit off.. just make sure there aren't any big chunks left..
 
I'm too tired to go on a long descriptive rant (it's become customary from me, no?) but I'll just cut to the chase and try to keep it as brief as possible : I like the sound of the leather dampened 003 more than the dynamat-lined 003.  All listening was done unamped from the iPhone 4.
 
The biggest difference after re-dampening them was, again, in the midrange.  The dynamat lined phones smoothed and warmed the midrange.. took you a few rows back in terms of proximity to the stage while the leather dampers brighten the midrange, bring you a couple of rows closer to the stage while striking the perfect balance in midrange tonality between the felt & dynamat dampers.
 
The midrange sounds more airy, crisp, detailed, and forward with the leather dampers vs the dynamat dampers.. yet they still retain that signature 003 smoothness.  Even more impressive was that despite the change in tonality, the upper mid spike did not rear its ugly head!  This is the primary reason the leather dampers really impressed me: it provided the chief benefit of the dynamat dampers (killing the upper mid spike) while giving me a more detailed, engaging midrange and sparkly treble.. the bass too sounds more dynamic and textured vs the dynamat mod too.  Vocals are clearer, more forward and detailed.  Snare hits and other instruments sound more lifelike, have better decay and snap to their sound.  Instrument separation in the midrange sounds better too.
 
The leather lined 003's soundstage shrunk ever so slightly in comparison to the dynamat lined 003.. not to fear though.. it's still freakishly wide.. and more importantly, is filled with the same balance from left to right the dynamat lined phones boasted.  I'm sure now that the stock, felt damper was chiefly responsible for the funneled shape of the sounstage (that Lorspeaker so aptly described) & the upper midrange spike.
 
The dynamat lined cups are a great choice if you found the stock 003 a bit too aggressive or forward.. the dynamat smooths out the sound while mostly retaining the detail and neutrality of the 003.  The leather dampers bring the 003 back closer to the stock, felt sound.. but noticeably refining them in the other direction.. the 003's midrange is now akin more to how the DBA's midrange sounds (though smoother & not as forward).. with the weight and dynamics a full sized dynamic driver can provide.. which is pretty much Fischer Audio heaven to me.
 
If there was any doubt left.. the leather-dampened 003 is now, unquestionably, my favorite full sized phone.  I don't plan to mod it anymore cause I simply love how they sound at this point.  It feels custom tailored to my taste.  In fact, I would have absolutely no qualms if the leather dampened 003 was my only full sized phone.. they're that versatile and sonically satisfying to me.

 

[Cheeznuklz]

Does anyone have any advice on changing the pads.  I was able to get the pleathers off without too much trouble, but getting the velours on is proving to a pain.

 

[LFF]

Quote:

@LFF
 
Ive been looking at your FA-011 review aswell, both seem very tempting.
Are the FA-002w worth the $100 dollar extra? I would be using with ZuneHD and FiiO E11.

The above posts do a great job answering this question.
 
IMHO, I believe the FA-002w is worth the extra money simply because the FA-002w will be a more universal headphone due to its sound signature. Also, because the FA-002w is a closed design, you will be able to enjoy it at more times and in more places than the FA-011. However, just because you get one or the other doesn't mean you can only get one. These are very complimentary headphones.