[Opethian10]

What's with all the Sunrise bashing here?  Have you heard one?  As a Sunrise, Horizon, and Ember owner, I can tell you that these amps don't mess around.  I'm actually selling my Horizon because the Sunrise is the least expensive amp that can drive nearly any headphone.  It's great with my D7000, but can also drive my 600 ohm DT880 with ease.  It can even bring my HE-6 to louder than necessary listening levels.  All while delivering great detail and musicality.  Very hard to find an amp $200 or less that can do what Sunrise does.  I'd recommend it in a heartbeat.
Quote:

 

Spoiler: Warning%3A%20About%20To%20Get%20Real%20with%20you%20TechBoy

 
Great but you and your 200 posts and what 1 month of experince... yea kiddo don't even try to go there with me pal. Trust me that design is flawed. And your information is most likely from the buyers website and OFC the buyer will say it can Drive 16 ohm cans, in addition there is synergy. Technically, my oDac has plenty of power to drive my w1000x but will it sound good. Will it sound as good as it could? No proably not., in addition you don't have the listening experince to even make this fight so stop. Every thread you are on you GLOAT about how great the Sunrise amps are
 
They are good, congrats but price wise they are not worth it imo. I sold my Indeed G3 to a fellow, you know what he bought next... a Little Dot 1+ you know how much he LIKES that amp over the G3... alot. He found it to be a clear improvement. So I think tha's been established now
 
and ofc this is all speculation, the point I am making is STOP blinding defeneding the Sun Rise amps, and STOP reommending them to every living thing on head fi, they are to expensive for beginner amps, end of story
 
And on the subject of the Lyr, did we mention it's ENCASED. Those open hybrid tubes are PRONE to noise as well as external damage, another flaw of that design. In addition to the obvious longevity of the Lyr simply due to a better design, I would imagine it is also supported by a real sense of customer service by an established Company, Schiit and Little Dot are both great companies with records of good Cusomter Service, the PS web site looks like it was made 10 years ago and doesn't convey an entirely interested sales team... MAYBE they are great guys who knows,
 
again the point it stop telling every one how much better the Ps 2 is over EVERYTHING else, because it's not better it's DIFFERENT. 
 
 

 

[Makiah S]

Quote:

What's with all the Sunrise bashing here?  Have you heard one?  As a Sunrise, Horizon, and Ember owner, I can tell you that these amps don't mess around.  I'm actually selling my Horizon because the Sunrise is the least expensive amp that can drive nearly any headphone.  It's great with my D7000, but can also drive my 600 ohm DT880 with ease.  It can even bring my HE-6 to louder than necessary listening levels.  All while delivering great detail and musicality.  Very hard to find an amp $200 or less that can do what Sunrise does.  I'd recommend it in a heartbeat.

Trust me we are NOT bashing the Sunrise amps, rather we are bashing Tech Boy for recommending them without ever hearing one, where as you are an actual owner and your input is appreciated  

 

[RAZRr1275]

Quote:

Trust me we are NOT bashing the Sunrise amps, rather we are bashing Tech Boy for recommending them without ever hearing one, where as you are an actual owner and your input is appreciated  

That's fair enough then
 
 
Oh and one more thing. I should say that the reason that I don't own a modded bravo anymore is that a week or so after my buying it it started destroying my tubes and then eventually stopped working. That's what prompted me to buy a sunrise. Then after that I ABd the sunrise against my friend's modded bravo  and thus is the source of my Sunrise > Bravo opinion.

 

[Makiah S]

Quote:

That's fair enough then
 
 
Oh and one more thing. I should say that the reason that I don't own a modded bravo anymore is that a week or so after my buying it it started destroying my tubes and then eventually stopped working. That's what prompted me to buy a sunrise. Then after that I ABd the sunrise against my friend's modded bravo  and thus is the source of my Sunrise > Bravo opinion.

Oh obviously the Sunrise is better than the Bravo, but the price is higher as well. Still destroying tubes... should have gotten a Indeed G3 [same price as bravo and a little better]
 
Either way, depnding on his budget a $100 Bravo, Indeed or Millet Variant might be a good start, espically if he only uses stock tubes. 
 
Then from there it's a quick 75% refund due to a sale here on head fi then onto something like the Sun Rise! 
 
I'd like to try one actually. When I get my Little Dot 1+... 

 

[RAZRr1275]

Quote:

Oh obviously the Sunrise is better than the Bravo, but the price is higher as well. Still destroying tubes... should have gotten a Indeed G3 [same price as bravo and a little better]
 
Either way, depnding on his budget a $100 Bravo, Indeed or Millet Variant might be a good start, espically if he only uses stock tubes. 
 
Then from there it's a quick 75% refund due to a sale here on head fi then onto something like the Sun Rise! 
 
I'd like to try one actually. When I get my Little Dot 1+... 

Yeah that was an unfortunate experience. 
 
It is a start - I'm just of the opinion that if the budget is there he should just make the jump. Right after I got my sunrise I only listened to my LD again twice. Then I sold it. I just figure why take the hastle of buying an amp that you already know you're going to get rid of because you can afford something else that is far better.

 

[Makiah S]

Quote:

Yeah that was an unfortunate experience. 
 
It is a start - I'm just of the opinion that if the budget is there he should just make the jump. Right after I got my sunrise I only listened to my LD again twice. Then I sold it. I just figure why take the hastle of buying an amp that you already know you're going to get rid of because you can afford something else that is far better.

Very true, and for my my budget WAS 100% UNDER $100 for my first tube, which a lot of people fall into, but yea it he's got the money it's worth the investment! 
 
Still I'm upgrading from an Indeed G3, to a !2ua7 Millet to a Little Dot 1+ with some REALLY nice tubes. The Little Dot also has optional OP amps as well, so it should be a step up from the 12ua7 Millet, still I'm in the $200 range my self, and I'll take the Little Dot 1+ with nicer tubes over the Sun Rise [not to mention I'm not a fan of Single Tube set ups] 

 

[RAZRr1275]

Quote:

Very true, and for my my budget WAS 100% UNDER $100 for my first tube, which a lot of people fall into, but yea it he's got the money it's worth the investment! 
 
Still I'm upgrading from an Indeed G3, to a !2ua7 Millet to a Little Dot 1+ with some REALLY nice tubes. The Little Dot also has optional OP amps as well, so it should be a step up from the 12ua7 Millet, still I'm in the $200 range my self, and I'll take the Little Dot 1+ with nicer tubes over the Sun Rise [not to mention I'm not a fan of Single Tube set ups] 

I mean don't get me wrong, the LD is a nice amp, but I had it equipped with Tung Sol EF95s, Mullard EF95, EF92, and EF91, Voshkod EF95s etc. as well as multiple opamp upgrades and the Sunrise absolutely wipes the floor with it in pretty much ever fashion.

 

[Makiah S]

Quote:

I mean don't get me wrong, the LD is a nice amp, but I had it equipped with Tung Sol EF95s, Mullard EF95, EF92, and EF91, Voshkod EF95s etc. as well as multiple opamp upgrades and the Sunrise absolutely wipes the floor with it in pretty much ever fashion.

Yea but how do Matched Tube pairs for channel balance, compare to a single Tube? You know Single tubes are know for some bad channel imbalance. 
 
And not to mention the open design, My indeed G3 had so much noise, as did my 12ua7 Millet, and let's not forget about well dust and other physical impureities. I just seriously doubt the reliability if that design.
 
Granted I'll just need to hear it for my self one day.  

 

[RAZRr1275]

Quote:

Yea but how do Matched Tube pairs for channel balance, compare to a single Tube? You know Single tubes are know for some bad channel imbalance. 
 
And not to mention the open design, My indeed G3 had so much noise, as did my 12ua7 Millet, and let's not forget about well dust and other physical impureities. I just seriously doubt the reliability if that design.
 
Granted I'll just need to hear it for my self one day.  

I've never detected a channel imbalance with the garage1217 gear. There's a light that indicates when a channel is biased on the PSII and the Ember autobiases so that's easy.
 
I don't get any noise and within 10 ft of the gear is a plasma tv, my cell phone, other audio gear, my computer, and a router.

 

[Makiah S]

Quote:

I've never detected a channel imbalance with the garage1217 gear. There's a light that indicates when a channel is biased on the PSII and the Ember autobiases so that's easy.
 
I don't get any noise and within 10 ft of the gear is a plasma tv, my cell phone, other audio gear, my computer, and a router.

I suppose we could argue this forever, until I hear one huh xD
 
Non the less has OP stated his budget btw? 

 

[RAZRr1275]

Quote:

I suppose we could argue this forever, until I hear one huh xD
 
Non the less has OP stated his budget btw? 

Haha - Suppose so - Enjoy the LD though. It served me well for about a year and a half before I upgraded. You are right that it is a fantastic intro tube amp. 

 

[Makiah S]

Quote:

Haha - Suppose so - Enjoy the LD though. It served me well for about a year and a half before I upgraded. You are right that it is a fantastic intro tube amp. 

Indeed, for the price [paying $219 for mine] I'm getting like 6 pairs of balanced Tubes and the amp. So no need to have to reaserach any tubes for it. After that it's on to a full sized Balanced Tube and maybe something better in Hybrid Tubes 
 
Who he is using Grados with this tube, that's good to know, In addition he will need something to drive the RE400? that's a Hifiman IEM correct 

 

[Makiah S]

Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Ranting%20

 
Ok YEA let's get TECHNICAL
 
The Sunrise II runs about 20 gain, that's is VERY high and as such you will have very poor volume control and crazy noise on low impedance cans, so JUST like the indeed G3, with low impedance cans [or iems because most are low input impedance] His Allesndro Ms1 has an Impedance of 32 ohms, despite the Sunrise II being rated as compatiable with 32ohms to 300 ohms, the reality is with such a low impedance his volume options are limited from too soft to loud and too loud. I drove my w1000x on an indeed G3, same design, same high gain and it was terrible. 
 
That being said, the op should NOT buy an Indeed G3, Bravo or Sunrise II as his cans will not match well with it, even if he spends more money to buy a tube that will lower the gain, for a little bit less he can get an amp that has Adjustable gain like [OH WOW the Little Dot 1+ or a 12ua7 Millet Variant]
 
Now let's assume in the future he get's something like a Senn HD 650, THEN a project sunrise would be a GREAT option as it's high gain and high voltage will pair well with a high impedance can.
 
using such High gain is like running 400 Torque on a Honda Civic in Rush hour, your gonna hit that gas pedal [increase your volts or your volume] and your going to accelerate so much your gonna rear end some one. It's to much voltage for a low impedance can. It's not going to be optimal for him in any capacity 
 
Now the Little Dot 1+ that I am buying is optimized for amp output and for low gain headphones, which my Akg K550 and w1000x will enjoy. It has an output imepedance around 1ohm and optional gain switch of 3.5 and 7, 7 is really not that high at all as my Beyers run best around 15 or so. Still 3.5 is going to be a really nice sweet spot for the Akg and the w1000x, as the increased gain gives them both a little more Mid Body Weight and a tighter sound, although it does resctrict the sound stage a little. Still at such a low gain the positives will out weight the negatives, I assume the effect would translate to other low impedance cans. So my Beyers would run best on a Sunrise tbh. Still 7 is enough gain to drive them half way decently 
 
Let's examine how gain affects a low impedance can some more, my Akg K550 at +10 gain have very weighty mids, but the mids get a little to much decay and body. And the sound stage is much more cramped. The effect is the same on my w1000x. Now at 0 gain the mids lose A LOT of body and a little bit of Weight. the decay is also lost and the sound stage is opened up...
 
Something like 3 gain would [in my opinion] be optimal for a low impedance can, as the little bit of extra juice will tighten the sound over all without adding to much body.
 

 

[Opethian10]

Quote:

Ok YEA let's get TECHNICAL
 
The Sunrise II runs about 20 gain, that's is VERY high and as such you will have very poor volume control and crazy noise on low impedance cans, so JUST like the indeed G3, with low impedance cans [or iems because most are low input impedance] His Allesndro Ms1 has an Impedance of 32 ohms, despite the Sunrise II being rated as compatiable with 32ohms to 300 ohms, the reality is with such a low impedance his volume options are limited from too soft to loud and too loud. I drove my w1000x on an indeed G3, same design, same high gain and it was terrible. 
 
That being said, the op should NOT buy an Indeed G3, Bravo or Sunrise II as his cans will not match well with it, even if he spends more money to buy a tube that will lower the gain, for a little bit less he can get an amp that has Adjustable gain like [OH WOW the Little Dot 1+ or a 12ua7 Millet Variant]
 
Now let's assume in the future he get's something like a Senn HD 650, THEN a project sunrise would be a GREAT option as it's high gain and high voltage will pair well with a high impedance can.
 
using such High gain is like running 400 Torque on a Honda Civic in Rush hour, your gonna hit that gas pedal [increase your volts or your volume] and your going to accelerate so much your gonna rear end some one. It's to much voltage for a low impedance can. It's not going to be optimal for him in any capacity 
 
Now the Little Dot 1+ that I am buying is optimized for amp output and for low gain headphones, which my Akg K550 and w1000x will enjoy. It has an output imepedance around 1ohm and optional gain switch of 3.5 and 7, 7 is really not that high at all as my Beyers run best around 15 or so. Still 3.5 is going to be a really nice sweet spot for the Akg and the w1000x, as the increased gain gives them both a little more Mid Body Weight and a tighter sound, although it does resctrict the sound stage a little. Still at such a low gain the positives will out weight the negatives, I assume the effect would translate to other low impedance cans. So my Beyers would run best on a Sunrise tbh. Still 7 is enough gain to drive them half way decently 
 
Let's examine how gain affects a low impedance can some more, my Akg K550 at +10 gain have very weighty mids, but the mids get a little to much decay and body. And the sound stage is much more cramped. The effect is the same on my w1000x. Now at 0 gain the mids lose A LOT of body and a little bit of Weight. the decay is also lost and the sound stage is opened up...
 
Something like 3 gain would [in my opinion] be optimal for a low impedance can, as the little bit of extra juice will tighten the sound over all without adding to much body.

 
I run it perfectly fine with my D7000's (25 ohms).  In low gain it runs at 5R, which is not terribly high.  No issue with volume control (plenty of play), and no noise at all.  Even stated on their website, Sunrise is designed for 32-300ohm headphones.  If you're looking for the amp in their lineup designed for high-impedance phones, that would be Horizon.  Ember should drive pretty much any headphone you throw at it.

 

[Makiah S]

Quote:

 
Dude, I run it perfectly fine with my D7000's (25 ohms).  In low gain it runs at 5R, which is not terribly high.  No issue with volume control (plenty of play), and no noise at all.  Even stated on their website, Sunrise is designed for 32-300ohm headphones.  If you're looking for the amp in their lineup designed for high-impedance phones, that would be Horizon.  Ember should drive pretty much any headphone you throw at it.

Well that's good to hear, as I didn't see it having a listed gain switch. I just hate when something is all positives. every thing has pros and cons. Good and bad, the Sunrise is not spoken of often, just hate when something is projected as being "perfect" because there are no perfect products. Just want to see some real objective pros and cons to this product. The last item I purchased that was PERFECT, was the Mr Speakers Mad Dog and it was not perfect, don't want to see another person sucked into buying something with a real sense of it's pros and cons, like with what happend with me and the Mad Dog 
 
Every one need's options, for example I heard the K550 was a great nuetral headphone, the issue with it was the fit was bad for some ppl. So in addition to that the Ath a900x was another good option. Turns out the K550 worked well for  me, but I had a back up I had options.
 
So I don't want op lured into thinking the Sunrise is going to be the PERFECT amp for him. everything is objectively and subjectively prone to positives and negatives. It's good to have them both in mind when ever your going to buy something!