[iFi audio]

Earlier this week, I bought the iFi audio Neo Stream. It has a 4.4mm balanced output which I connected to the HA-1’s XLR input using a cable that I got from iFi. I was pleasantly surprised by the improvement in sound with my PM-1.

Thanks! And yes, streamers matter big time and the better DAC, amp and cans one has, the more important they become. Thanks again and enjoy

 

[duffer5]

I welcome your input on why the improvement???

This group / thread has been so helpful. So I have been on the fence, do I or don't I get an external preamp. Well, I remembered that my Class A Oppo HA-1 headphone amp / preamplifier had a high quality preamp built in and decided to use my ACTIVE speakers via that HA-1. Well lo and behold when I set the Gustard r26 DAC to fixed volume output and controlled the volume via the HA-1 (which is an analog control knob) with connected active speakers via xlr my sound jumped a level in the best way possible.

I welcome your input on why the improvement??? Kinda dumbfounded once again. How can this be and thank you in advance for educating a newbie.

Is the Oppo HA-1 a good preamp?? Would I be better off with a stand-alone preamp? I now use the Ferrum OOR as my HP amp but need a remote to control volume for the Active speakers which the OOR does not have but the HA-1 does. Based on the Oppo HA-1 specs it appears the preamp portion is pretty darn good. Am I wrong?

R26 feeding the HA-1 Class A discrete headphone amp / preamplifier via xlr analog in.
HA-1 feeding Active speakers via XLR out.

 

[MRC001]

... Is the Oppo HA-1 a good preamp?? Would I be better off with a stand-alone preamp? I now use the Ferrum OOR as my HP amp but need a remote to control volume for the Active speakers which the OOR does not have but the HA-1 does. Based on the Oppo HA-1 specs it appears the preamp portion is pretty darn good. Am I wrong? ...

The HA-1 is quite good both in its DAC and analog stages. It has 2 analog stages: opamp based, which is used when set to fixed output level (no volume knob), and discrete, which is used whenever the volume control is enabled. The opamp based line stage measures cleaner and one would expect it to be used for the line level outputs on the back. The discrete line stage is much more powerful and one would expect it to be used for the headphone output - not the line outputs. But that is not how it's designed. It may be that the difference is audible and some people prefer the slightly higher noise/distortion of the discrete stage.

Two other things worth noting about the HA-1. It has several internal relays for protection and they can trigger when they shouldn't. You're listening to music and suddenly the HA-1 powers off. I had to clean the headphone jack contacts periodically to make this happen less often. Also it gets hot during normal operation, so it requires plenty of ventilation, and the heat can still cause some internal components to fail prematurely. The volume knob was a common casualty of this. And it's a very complex unit internally, so the replacement is not for the faint of heart.

 

[duffer5]

The HA-1 is quite good both in its DAC and analog stages. It has 2 analog stages: opamp based, which is used when set to fixed output level (no volume knob), and discrete, which is used whenever the volume control is enabled. The opamp based line stage measures cleaner and one would expect it to be used for the line level outputs on the back. The discrete line stage is much more powerful and one would expect it to be used for the headphone output - not the line outputs. But that is not how it's designed. It may be that the difference is audible and some people prefer the slightly higher noise/distortion of the discrete stage.

Two other things worth noting about the HA-1. It has several internal relays for protection and they can trigger when they shouldn't. You're listening to music and suddenly the HA-1 powers off. I had to clean the headphone jack contacts periodically to make this happen less often. Also it gets hot during normal operation, so it requires plenty of ventilation, and the heat can still cause some internal components to fail prematurely. The volume knob was a common casualty of this. And it's a very complex unit internally, so the replacement is not for the faint of heart.

Do you suggest going with a separate external preamp based on the above comments as I don't use the HA-1 for headphones or a dac anymore as I have a external DAC and I am using the Ferrum OOR as my headphone amp. I am simply using the HA-1 as the preamp with xlr line out and the volume control of the HA-1. Thanks btw.

 

[LarryMagoo]

My HA-1 still operates as new...I only use it as an HP amp....so sorry that Oppo got out of the Music biz and instead is focussed on cell phones...what a huge waste of engineering...I love my HA-1 and feel fortunate to own it....these days recently I have swung over to Wireless HP's (Apple's Air Pod Max) mostly for my 3.5 mile Dog walks.

 

[MRC001]

Do you suggest going with a separate external preamp based on the above comments as I don't use the HA-1 for headphones or a dac anymore as I have a external DAC and I am using the Ferrum OOR as my headphone amp. I am simply using the HA-1 as the preamp with xlr line out and the volume control of the HA-1. Thanks btw.

When I owned the HA-1 I used it as an all-in-one device: DAC, preamp and headphone amp. It may not be the absolute SOTA but it performed well in every mode. There are reasons they still command good prices on the used market.

 

[duffer5]

When I owned the HA-1 I used it as an all-in-one device: DAC, preamp and headphone amp. It may not be the absolute SOTA but it performed well in every mode. There are reasons they still command good prices on the used market.

I have had mine since launch and couldn't agree more. I just recently started upgrading beyond the HA-1, with an external DAC and a different headphone amp. I was just about to pull the trigger on a separate preamp (even though my new DAC (Gustard R26 r2r) has a decent quality preamp) but I decided to take the HA-1 out of storage and try it strictly as a preamp and volume control. And I was pleasantly surprised by the sound quaintly. So I continue to be torn, do I need to drop more $$$ and buy a new, separate preamp. In my view preamps (unlike other audio equipment) don't change drastically from year to year so I am not sure I would "hear," a benefit beyond using the HA-1 strictly as a preamp. Thus my dilemma.

 

[1kHz]

My HA-1 still operates as new...I only use it as an HP amp....so sorry that Oppo got out of the Music biz and instead is focussed on cell phones...what a huge waste of engineering...I love my HA-1 and feel fortunate to own it....these days recently I have swung over to Wireless HP's (Apple's Air Pod Max) mostly for my 3.5 mile Dog walks.

Yeah right, you would think they would take that audio expertise and add it to the phones as well. " cough cough ... add an headphone jack and dac to the phone "
would make more sense but its a shame such engineering is lost.

 

[duffer5]

Is the HA-1 a decent pre-amp in 2023. I have no need for the DAC and Headphone portion of my HA-1 but I do need a decent preamp to drive my active speakers and the HA-1 is being fed by my external Gustard R26 DAC via xlr In and outputting to the active speakers via xlr out? If there are better recommendations for another preamp I am all ears and open to suggestions But happy to save my money and keep the HA-1 if that is the best option.

 

[bbfoto]

Is the HA-1 a decent pre-amp in 2023? I have no need for the DAC and Headphone portion of my HA-1 but I do need a decent preamp to drive my active speakers and the HA-1 is being fed by my external Gustard R26 DAC via xlr In and outputting to the active speakers via xlr out?

If there are better recommendations for another preamp I am all ears and open to suggestions. But happy to save my money and keep the HA-1 if that is the best option.

Based on the last two sentences of your post above, of course there are better dedicated preamps...obviously greatly depending on your budget, which you did not state, so the field is wide open?

All that I can advise is to pick up a second-hand Pass Labs XP-12 preamp (if you can find one) and you will forever be cured of your "upgradeitis" for a new/better preamp.

Having said that, I still use my HA-1 as a preamp via XLR to my Neumann KH 120A active studio monitors, and I sometimes switch between the Neumann's and the larger Kali Audio IN-8 active studio monitors in this setup. IMO, they both sound excellent through the HA-1.

I'm a drummer and saxophonist, and there is no lack of detail, realism, and dynamics with this combination that's used in my nearfield/midfield listening environment, but this system is setup in my home office for more casual listening, not my main rig, so there's that caveat.

It seems like you've got a decent DAC that you are happy with, which is a good start. So regarding a better preamp, IME I didn't find a significant improvement from $1,000-$1,500 preamps until I passed the ~$5k mark (new retail pricing). But there are also A LOT of preamps available these days, and I couldn't possibly try all of them! But someone with heaps of experience and who's ears I trust suggested the Pass Labs XP-12 as an "End Game" preamp for the price I was willing to spend, and I can now positively say that I have no desires to look for a better preamp. Buy Once, Cry Once, LOL.

The XP-12 is in my main rig. The loudspeakers in that system are my own DIY 3-way design using 10" # HW251 Ciare midbass drivers and 5" concentric midrange/compression tweeter drivers with berylium diaphragms (BMS 5CN162-HE) which cost about ~$2k to build all-in with my DIY cabinets.

Using active crossover filter networks and DIRAC Live speaker/room correction provided by a miniDSP C-DSP 8x12 DL processor, these speakers have rivaled several $30k+ loudspeakers I've demo'd.

I power these 3-way DIY active home loudspeakers using an unconventional pair of 4-channel amplifiers! They are Alpine X-series XA-70F car audio amplifiers. I bridged the 4 channels of one amp down to two channels to power the 10" Ciare midbass, and used the other 4-channel amp to power the remaining concentric midrange/HF drivers. I sort of haphazardly settled on using these Alpine car audio amps in the home rig after having installed them in my custom "high end" car audio setup, which also uses the miniDSP C-DSP 8x12 DIRAC processor with Purifi PTT6.5 midbass drivers, Dynaudio Esotar2 430 midrange, and BlieSMa T25B Berylium tweeters, and two Stereo Integrity SQL12 subwoofers. I was quite honestly blown away by the micro detail, dynamics, separation/air, and 3D imaging/soundstaging of these relatively inexpensive "Class D" amplifiers! (I needed very efficient Class D amps in this car due to its limited electrical system). So, for their cost it was relatively inexpensive to try them in the home rig, and luckily they perform extremely well there, too. I knew that I could easily sell them if they didn't work out, so no real risk.

Oh...and to be fair, in the home rig with my DIY 3-ways, I'm also using two separate 15" DIY subwoofers in this system using the Stereo Integrity SQL-15 drivers. In-room bass that's flat down to ~16Hz FTW.

Crikey!....Sorry for the LONG post!

I haven't thought to do it before, but it would be interesting to swap out the Pass XP-12 preamp in my main rig for the HA-1 preamp just to see how it compares. That's quite a task, but maybe I'll put that on the calendar for a later date when I have more free time.

Maybe others here will have better suggestions for a preamp upgrade. But again, I'm completely satisfied with the HA-1 as I've been using it. I bought it shortly after it was announced and released, so I'm hoping it doesn't have any issues in the near future. I still love it for what it is and would be very disappointed to have to find an equivalent replacement.


ANYWAY...

IMO the quality of your active speakers (and their internal amplifiers) will be as much of a limiting factor as the preamp itself.

What active speakers are you using?



P.S. If you appreciate female vocals and jazz, please have a listent to the Steph Johnson Trio "Nature Girl" album. It's an outstanding recording. My Avatar is the album art/CD cover. Favorite tracks are the jazz standards "When Sunny Gets Blue" & "The Man I Love", but IMO there's not a bad one in the bunch. Sample the tracks via YouTube here...

 

[duffer5]

Based on the last two sentences of your post above, of course there are better dedicated preamps...obviously greatly depending on your budget, which you did not state, so the field is wide open?

All that I can advise is to pick up a second-hand Pass Labs XP-12 preamp (if you can find one) and you will forever be cured of your "upgradeitis" for a new/better preamp.

Having said that, I still use my HA-1 as a preamp via XLR to my Neumann KH 120A active studio monitors, and I sometimes switch between the Neumann's and the larger Kali Audio IN-8 active studio monitors in this setup. IMO, they both sound excellent through the HA-1.

I'm a drummer and saxophonist, and there is no lack of detail, realism, and dynamics with this combination that's used in my nearfield/midfield listening environment, but this system is setup in my home office for more casual listening, not my main rig, so there's that caveat.

It seems like you've got a decent DAC that you are happy with, which is a good start. So regarding a better preamp, IME I didn't find a significant improvement from $1,000-$1,500 preamps until I passed the ~$5k mark (new retail pricing). But there are also A LOT of preamps available these days, and I couldn't possibly try all of them! But someone with heaps of experience and who's ears I trust suggested the Pass Labs XP-12 as an "End Game" preamp for the price I was willing to spend, and I can now positively say that I have no desires to look for a better preamp. Buy Once, Cry Once, LOL.

The XP-12 is in my main rig. The loudspeakers in that system are my own DIY 3-way design using 10" # HW251 Ciare midbass drivers and 5" concentric midrange/compression tweeter drivers (BMS 5CN162-HE) which cost about ~$2k to build all-in with my DIY cabinets.

Using active crossover filter networks and DIRAC Live speaker/room correction provided by a miniDSP C-DSP 8x12 DL processor, these speakers have rivaled several $30k+ loudspeakers I've demo'd.

I power these 3-way DIY active home loudspeakers using an uncommon pair of 4-channel amplifiers! They are Alpine X-series XA-70F. I bridged the 4 channels of one amp down to two channels to power the 10" Ciare midbass, and used the other 4-channel amp to power the remaining concentric midrange/HF drivers. I sort of haphazardly settled on using these Alpine car audio amps in the home rig after having installed them in my custom "high end" car audio setup, which also uses the miniDSP C-DSP 8x12 DIRAC processor with Purifi PTT6.5 midbass drivers, Dynaudio Esotar2 430 midrange, and BlieSMa T25B Berylium tweeters, and two Stereo Integrity SQL12 subwoofers. I was quite honestly blown away by the micro detail, dynamics, separation/air, and 3D imaging/soundstaging of these relatively inexpensive "Class D" amplifiers! (I needed very efficient Class D amps in this car due to its limited electrical system). So, for their cost it was relatively inexpensive to try them in the home rig, and luckily they perform extremely well there, too. I knew that I could easily sell them if they didn't work out, so no real risk.

Oh...and to be fair, in the home rig with my DIY 3-ways, I'm also using two separate 15" DIY subwoofers in this system using the Stereo Integrity SQL-15 drivers. In-room bass that's flat down to ~16Hz FTW.

Crikey!....Sorry for the LONG post!

I haven't thought to do it before, but it would be interesting to swap out the Pass XP-12 preamp in my main rig for the HA-1 preamp just to see how it compares. That's quite a task, but maybe I'll put that on the calendar for a later date when I have more free time.

Maybe others here will have better suggestions for a preamp upgrade. But again, I'm completely satisfied with the HA-1 as I've been using it. I bought it shortly after it was announced and released, so I hoping it doesn't have any issues in the near future. I still love it for what it is and would be disappointed to have to find an equivalent replacement.


ANYWAY...

IMO the quality of your active speakers (and their internal amplifiers) will be as much of a limiting factor as the preamp itself.

What active speakers are you using?



P.S. If you appreciate female vocals and jazz, please have a listent to the Steph Johnson Trio "Nature Girl" album. It's an outstanding recording. My Avatar is the album art/CD cover. Favorite tracks are the jazz standards "When Sunny Gets Blue" & "The Man I Love", but IMO there's not a bad one in the bunch. Sample the tracks via YouTube here...

@bbfoto This is super helpful. I really appreciate the effort and detail. The attached is my system and is my primary system but located in my home office which is small. Based on your feedback I may be just fine using the HA-1 as my Pre-amp. If there would be no real audible benefit no need to throw good money after bad.

Source: Hifi Rose 150B (Roon) ➔ Fiber Media Converter ➔LAN | Gustard U18 | ➔ Gustard R26 | Fiio M17 DAP | Hiby R6 2020 DAP
AMP: Ferrum OOR / Hypsos | Oppo HA-1
Headphone: Hifiman Susvara | Focal Clear OG | Oppo Pm-1 | UM Mest MKII | Shure se846 | 7Hz Timeless
Speakers: Output, by Barefoot "Frontier" Studio Monitors

 

[bbfoto]

@bbfoto This is super helpful. I really appreciate the effort and detail. The attached is my system and is my primary system but located in my home office which is small. Based on your feedback I may be just fine using the HA-1 as my Pre-amp. If there would be no real audible benefit no need to throw good money after bad.

Source: Hifi Rose 150B (Roon) ➔ Fiber Media Converter ➔LAN | Gustard U18 | ➔ Gustard R26 | Fiio M17 DAP | Hiby R6 2020 DAP
AMP: Ferrum OOR / Hypsos | Oppo HA-1
Headphone: Hifiman Susvara | Focal Clear OG | Oppo Pm-1 | UM Mest MKII | Shure se846 | 7Hz Timeless
Speakers: Output, by Barefoot "Frontier" Studio Monitors

Looks like a very nice setup.

Too bad your small room will not allow you to place the studio monitors in more ideal positions. It will be problematic with the right speaker being corner-loaded as well as so close to the right wall in terms of spatial loading and the 1st reflection, and then the left speaker moreso in full 4 pi with minimal spatial/boundary loading or near side 1st reflection. That would drive my OCD as well as ears crazy, hah!

Is there a continuous, unobstructed wall in the room where the Output/Barefoot "Frontier" monitors could be placed more centrally between the far left and far right side walls without destroying the functionality of the room? That would be a real improvement IMO.

And how do you like the "Frontier" studio monitors? I've seen some measurements of them that showed a few fairly significant issues in the treble and also the lower mids that I don't think I could live with, especially without a good P-EQ or room correction for those issues. But most consumers seem to be pleased them overall, so IDK?

Unfortunately, I noticed that the Frontier's don't have the typical variable high-shelf & low-shelf trim controls that most other active studio monitors have to fine tune spectral balance and to account for different spatial/boundary loading or "room placement" scenarios. Those controls would be incredibly useful in your particular setup!

I haven't heard the Frontier's myself, but based on the rest of your system, I honestly might spend any upgrade money that I had available on better active monitors...especially if you can place the monitor speakers in a more central/symetrical area in the room ...i.e. both speakers more equidistant from each side wall. For more information on nearfield monitor or loudspeaker setup and placement, check out the Carl Tatz Design website.

However, maybe the speakers are not that high of a priority for you since you have the Susvara's and IEMs as well? I really only use my IEMs or headphones when I need to for tracking (recording) my own instruments, as well as while traveling. Overall I prefer loudspeakers or studio monitor speakers for mixing and for general listening pleasure, but was thinking to try the new Stealth version of the HiFiman HE1000 V3 that I can get at a discount for ~$2k USD. For my listening preferences, I'm not going to invest Susvara level $ for headphones. I'd rather buy some new or vintage drums and/or cymbals, or ribbon microphones.

Enjoy the music! Cheers.

 

[duffer5]

Looks like a very nice setup.

Too bad your small room will not allow you to place the studio monitors in more ideal positions. It will be problematic with the right speaker being corner-loaded as well as so close to the right wall in terms of spatial loading and the 1st reflection, and then the left speaker moreso in full 4 pi with minimal spatial/boundary loading or near side 1st reflection. That would drive my OCD as well as ears crazy, hah!

Is there a continuous, unobstructed wall in the room where the Output/Barefoot "Frontier" monitors could be placed more centrally between the far left and far right side walls without destroying the functionality of the room? That would be a real improvement IMO.

And how do you like the "Frontier" studio monitors? I've seen some measurements of them that showed a few fairly significant issues in the treble and also the lower mids that I don't think I could live with, especially without a good P-EQ or room correction for those issues. But most consumers seem to be pleased them overall, so IDK?

Unfortunately, I noticed that the Frontier's don't have the typical variable high-shelf & low-shelf trim controls that most other active studio monitors have to fine tune spectral balance and to account for different spatial/boundary loading or "room placement" scenarios. Those controls would be incredibly useful in your particular setup!

I haven't heard the Frontier's myself, but based on the rest of your system, I honestly might spend any upgrade money that I had available on better active monitors...especially if you can place the monitor speakers in a more central/symetrical area in the room ...i.e. both speakers more equidistant from each side wall. For more information on nearfield monitor or loudspeaker setup and placement, check out the Carl Tatz Design website.

However, maybe the speakers are not that high of a priority for you since you have the Susvara's and IEMs as well? I really only use my IEMs or headphones when I need to for tracking (recording) my own instruments, as well as while traveling. Overall I prefer loudspeakers or studio monitor speakers for mixing and for general listening pleasure, but was thinking to try the new Stealth version of the HiFiman HE1000 V3 that I can get at a discount for ~$2k USD. For my listening preferences, I'm not going to invest Susvara level $ for headphones. I'd rather buy some new or vintage drums and/or cymbals, or ribbon microphones.

Enjoy the music! Cheers.

Once agin very helpful. I did “toe in,” the speakers (see pics) to avoid some reflection on the far wall with some success. Unfortunately I have no other area in the room to place the system since it is a very small room. I am taking the picture from the listening position when I listen to speakers. So I am in the middle of the sweet spot. For headphones I typically recline in the chair pictured as room acoustics don’t apply. As far as sound quality of the Frontier speakers I prefer the sound over comparable ADAMS. I rarely go by measurements thus the reason I have a R2R DAC which most R2R DACS measure poorly but can sound great. you have provided great suggestions and some interesting things to think about.

 

[duffer5]

@bbfoto Okay, you got me, I changed the room setup around, not perfect but better. Balanced is how I would describe it. Thanks for the input. The good thing is now the speakers are behind me vs to the side of me so it sounds great. All I need to do is turn around to face the speakers for optimal sweet spot positioning.

 

[duffer5]

@bbfoto, wanted to thank you for the recommendation of Steph Johnson Trio "Nature Girl" album. So good, listening now. Have you tried TOK, TOK, TOK I think you would like them based on your recommendation.