[AudioMan2013]

There is NO digital headroom in modern music recordings. The only way to EQ is down, unless you tweak your system using things like ReplayGain to lower the digital signal before processing. But audiophiles hate stuff like that ("where'd my bit perfect recording go??") so Onkyo doesn't do it.

Other alternatives:
1. Automatically apply a fixed negative preamp to the EQ (makes the music quieter the moment you push the EQ button, everybody thinks the EQ makes the sound muffled. FiiO did this and nobody uses their EQ either)
2. Quietly apply a fixed negative preamp ALL the time, even when EQ is off. Again this throws away bit-perfectness.
3. Do (1), but automatically increase the master volume to compensate. FiiO did this for the X1 and people complained why the max volume decreases with EQ on. :facepalm: Still one of the best solutions so far. But, I don't think this is possible to do (or at least very complicated) on an Android platform.
4. Quietly apply a digital soft limiter to the EQ, so you don't hear obvious distortion. Now a digital soft limiter shouldn't change the signal at all when you're not clipping, but when you're clipping the soft limiter does its work by dynamically compressing your music further. Only a band-aid to the problem to be sure.

In short, EQ is between a rock and a hard place when facing people who expect it to break the laws of digital audio. The only solution is to learn how to use it properly.

You can easily bring the whole EQ curve down below clipping on the Onkyo app by dragging down on an empty part of the graph (i.e. not dragging directly on the curve).

I know there there is no digital headroom in the music/audio file, I was speaking about the dap itself and the playback software. What you are saying basically that in all digital audio platforms a software based eq cannot be applied that works well. That is not true. There is a software work around for implementing an eq properly and the same method is used for digital volume control so one doesnt start losing bits when listening at low volumes. In the audio processing, by adding extra bits would allow for plenty of digital headroom. Instead of processing in 16 or 24 bit registers, it would process in higher bit depth registers before sending the data to the dacs. ESS uses pretty much the same method for its volume control.

 

[Joe Bloggs]

I know there there is no digital headroom in the music/audio file, I was speaking about the dap itself and the playback software. What you are saying basically that in all digital audio platforms a software based eq cannot be applied that works well. That is not true. There is a software work around for implementing an eq properly and the same method is used for digital volume control so one doesnt start losing bits when listening at low volumes. In the audio processing, by adding extra bits would allow for plenty of digital headroom. Instead of processing in 16 or 24 bit registers, it would process in higher bit depth registers before sending the data to the dacs. ESS uses pretty much the same method for its volume control.

That solution which you propose, is invalid when there are also 32bit and 64bit tracks to be decoded bit-perfectly. Also, any such padding in the digital domain would mean losing dBs of S/N ratio at the analog output. Of course, it's insanity to think that 64 bit audio needs to be decoded bit-perfectly to avoid audible loss, and stupid to think that in this day and age of S/N ratio well over 100dB losing a few dBs to make room for EQ would hurt anything, but that's a story for another day...

 

[AudioMan2013]

That solution which you propose, is invalid when there are also 32bit and 64bit tracks to be decoded bit-perfectly. Also, any such padding in the digital domain would mean losing dBs of S/N ratio at the analog output. Of course, it's insanity to think that 64 bit audio needs to be decoded bit-perfectly to avoid audible loss, and stupid to think that in this day and age of S/N ratio well over 100dB losing a few dBs to make room for EQ would hurt anything, but that's a story for another day... 

 
I agree with 32 bit tracks it wouldn't work but there's not much 32 bit music out there.  Most is 16 bit, and some selection of 24 bit.  The Snapdragon 801 is a 32 bit device and may have higher bit registers internally.  The ES9018K2M is a 32 bit dac.  If implemented properly, there is plenty of digital headroom to have a fantastic EQ.  As far as I know, using a larger bit depth registers for internal processing is commonly used technique in many software applications where some data has to be processed to minimize information loss and rounding errors.  When converting from less bits to more bits, it is a loss-less conversion.  I don't know how all of the  internals in the ESS dac works, but it is a native 32 bit dac and when playing 16 bit or 24 bit files, there has to be some sort of padding or conversion to 32 bits to make it work.  

 

[ebweinstein]

 

  AFAIK, there's no us version(international ver) for onkyo dpx1, all onkyo are japanese version, I ask my local dealer, and he said that.
for now all onkyo are japanese version, still dunno when the international version comes out.

 


I spoke with an onkyo rep today US DP-X1 release is 3rd or 4th week of April.

Hmmm I have one getting shipped from Price Japan. Perhaps I should return it unopened and get the US version? What do you guys think?

 

[Sonic Defender]

  Hmmm I have one getting shipped from Price Japan. Perhaps I should return it unopened and get the US version? What do you guys think?

That would make sense if the financial penalty isn't too great. Ideally having a warranty service closer to home is never a bad thing. Still, depends on PJ return policy and cost of shipping back.

 

[MadDane]

are this info valid? any statement from onkyo US ?
if it's true, than I'll be happy to hear that.
I've been waiting for my onkyo from early jan

What part of this isn't VALID?

I spoke with Onkyo a UNITED STATES company representative at Onkyo USA.

???:confused_face_2:

 

[DrSheep]

  Hmmm I have one getting shipped from Price Japan. Perhaps I should return it unopened and get the US version? What do you guys think?

I would do it as you may run into warranty issue later if you need service.

 

[ebweinstein]

  That would make sense if the financial penalty isn't too great. Ideally having a warranty service closer to home is never a bad thing. Still, depends on PJ return policy and cost of shipping back.

Thanks! Although not sure I want / can wait for all that to happen.........

 

[Bong Hollywodd]

Simple.
 
do want a warranty: the US Ver.
do you want to save money (around $300): Japan Ver.  

 

[Peridot]

You still have warranty with PriceJapan, but you'll have shipping costs to pay in the event of a claim
 
As you would have to pay shipping to return it anyway, I'd say stick with the Japanese one.

 

[Joe Bloggs]

I agree with 32 bit tracks it wouldn't work but there's not much 32 bit music out there.  Most is 16 bit, and some selection of 24 bit.  The Snapdragon 801 is a 32 bit device and may have higher bit registers internally.  The ES9018K2M is a 32 bit dac.  If implemented properly, there is plenty of digital headroom to have a fantastic EQ.  As far as I know, using a larger bit depth registers for internal processing is commonly used technique in many software applications where some data has to be processed to minimize information loss and rounding errors.  When converting from less bits to more bits, it is a loss-less conversion.  I don't know how all of the  internals in the ESS dac works, but it is a native 32 bit dac and when playing 16 bit or 24 bit files, there has to be some sort of padding or conversion to 32 bits to make it work.  

If you added the padding zeroes to the most significant bits as you seem to propose, 16 and 24bit audio would output at several orders of magnitude quieter than 32bit audio. Instead padding is done after the least significant bits and does not increase headroom. Anyway the max analog S/N ratio is only attained when the most significant bit is used, i.e. zero headroom.

 

[AudioMan2013]

If you added the padding zeroes to the most significant bits as you seem to propose, 16 and 24bit audio would output at several orders of magnitude quieter than 32bit audio. Instead padding is done after the least significant bits and does not increase headroom. Anyway the max analog S/N ratio is only attained when the most significant bit is used, i.e. zero headroom.

By using a 32 bit dac, isn't everything converted 32 bits regardless of the input?  If I am correct, a 32 bit dac can only accept 16 and 32 bit data.  The 16 bit data is converted to 32 by interleaving zeros in the binary domain. Digital scaling is always performed on 16 and 24 bit data on a 32 bit dac.  If this scaling is performed might as well do it on a high bit depth register before sending it out to the dac to incorporate an EQ that exceeds the bit depth of 16 and 24 bit files.  I don't understand I guess, as I don't have the internal design of their software and dac.  I know my Cowon S9 and Foobar as well does a great job at EQing in the digital domain. 

 

[WayTooCrazy]

Onkyo's website keeps saying "soon". I wish it were "soon" already.

 

[prot]

   
I agree with 32 bit tracks it wouldn't work but there's not much 32 bit music out there.  Most is 16 bit, and some selection of 24 bit.   

There is no piece of true 32bit music. Zero. Nada.  And here's the big news: most probably there will never be one.  32bit ~=192db DNR and assuming such a music file exists, if you try to play it your audio gear will crash and burn ... and assuming that your equipment will somehow survive and even play that sound, you will die. Your ear drums will explode at ~150db, ~170db is already quite deadly and >190db is probably instant death.
 
Also there is no true 24bit music either.  The best ADC/DAC devices only go up to 22-23bit .. and that is the max performance of the chip alone in ideal conditions.  Those 24bit music files that people buy contain a lot of useless zeroes.

 

[TheOneInYellow]

You still have warranty with PriceJapan, but you'll have shipping costs to pay in the event of a claim

As you would have to pay shipping to return it anyway, I'd say stick with the Japanese one.

Ok, I've kinda kept this hidden except on Twitter (@theoneinyellow) and partially on FB.

My Japanese imported Onkyo DP-X1 developed a fault early February. :'(
Fault is complicated but here goes.
Audio from the 3.5 mm headphone jack (TRS) failed. Only half signal or no signal.
My DP-X1 kept showing permanent Balanced audio output.
No updates, restarts, multiple factory resets, could fix the issue. This was a genuine hardware fault.
(I took pics of the issue but for warranty purposes; if you guys really want proof I'll post but I hope you'll just trust me on this).
I had no balanced cables until last week, so in February I was unable to continue using my DP-X1. I was incredibly upset.
Worse was that I had installed the DPA-GL033 tempered glass screen protector, and was worried that if I claimed warranty would I get a new one?

So, I contacted my retailer, PriceJapan.com (Kaneda), and via shipping cost sent my unit to them. They confirmed that they would not give a new DPA-GL033 and I would need to buy again, after repair or replacement of my broken DP-X1.
From there they sent it to Onkyo JP. Now, according to what I've been told, my unit had an internal hardware fault of some sort, and Onkyo could not fix it.
So they sent to PriceJapan.com a BRAND NEW DP-X1! More so, Onkyo kindly gave in the box a BRAND NEW DPA-GL033 without official packaging, in recognition that I had used one on my old DP-X1!

HOW COOL IS THAT!?! XD

After PriceJapan.com got the replacement, they asked for return shipping cost ($45.00). That was last week. Got my unit a days ago (Monday)! (Got my replacement and upgraded Audeze EL8 Titanium headphones this week too, for my broken 2015 Audeze EL8 CB. This is an unrelated but sadly coincidental issue fully resolved).

I also got last week from Double Helix Cables three cables for three headphones, of which two are balanced, so I can finally use my replacement Onkyo DP-X1 unit in both balanced BTL and/or AGC mode! Quick conclusion; AGC IS KING at small sacrifice to power.

Thus, if you buy from PriceJapan.com, and are willing to pay shipping costs, you will have warranty honoured by Onkyo but on behalf of you by PriceJapan.com (not direct).

I'm pretty happy!