[Cankin]

Uncle Erik is implicitly not responsible for what he posts even though he is a Head Fi mod.

 

[Kernmac]

Quote:

The word "implicitly" means that it's unstated, merely implied. Uncle Erik is inferring from AKG's pricing stategy that it doesn't believe the 701 can compete on price. There is no obligation on him to "prove" that AKG believes this, as he has not stated it as a fact.

And that supposed "implied acknowledgement" from AKG is based entirely on some of the retail prices of  the K701 in comparison to some of the retail prices of the DT880 and HD650 and nothing else?   As the retail price of all three headphones fluctuates considerably from time to time and from retailer to retailer and based on the fact that a supplier has very little control on actual retail prices, anyone that believes that  AKG has "implicitily ackowledged" their product is inferior to "the opposition", is implicitly absurd. 
 
EDIT: I am amazed that reasonable people based on their personal taste spend so much time in an obsessive attack of any product, it really cuts at the credibility of the individuals.   I think enough people that read Headfi regularly are familiar with the unhealthy rants of some of the Headfiers.

 

[lejaz]

 
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AKG, by the way, implicitly acknowledges that the K-701 isn't as good as the DT880 or HD-650. That's why it is priced lower than those two. They can only compete on price, not sound.

This would be one of the most unusual marketing moves I have ever heard of.  In what way(s) does AKG acknowledge that the Senn and beyer are better?  Post a link showing the quote from AKG, or it simply isn't true.
Whether the DT880 or HD650 are better or not is subjective, even coming from and AKG staffer, but no-one should state that a company says something, unless it is true. Back it up.

The word "implicitly" means that it's unstated, merely implied. Uncle Erik is inferring from AKG's pricing stategy that it doesn't believe the 701 can compete on price. There is no obligation on him to "prove" that AKG believes this, as he has not stated it as a fact.

X 2  Not libelous. Whether they can compete on sound or not is entirely subjective and everyone is entitled to their opinion. I've stated my personal beefs with the 702 many times and stand by my preference for the 240DF overall... but other folks love them. So let's just duke it out and be done with it. How about Uncle Eric vs. Acix in the center ring....put up your dukes! 

 

[pp312]

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The word "implicitly" means that it's unstated, merely implied. Uncle Erik is inferring from AKG's pricing stategy that it doesn't believe the 701 can compete on price. There is no obligation on him to "prove" that AKG believes this, as he has not stated it as a fact.

And that supposed "implied acknowledgement" from AKG is based entirely on some of the retail prices of  the K701 in comparison to some of the retail prices of the DT880 and HD650 and nothing else?   As the retail price of all three headphones fluctuates considerably from time to time and from retailer to retailer and based on the fact that a supplier has very little control on actual retail prices, anyone that believes that  AKG has "implicitily ackowledged" their product is inferior to "the opposition", is implicitly absurd. 
 
EDIT: I am amazed that reasonable people based on their personal taste spend so much time in an obsessive attack of any product, it really cuts at the credibility of the individuals.   I think enough people that read Headfi regularly are familiar with the unhealthy rants of some of the Headfiers.

Uncle Erik or anyone is entitled to infer anything he likes from a pricing structure, and you are entitled to disagree in as irritable a manner as you choose. Nothing you've said alters what I said. As for reasonable people attacking certain products, it's human nature I guess, and not limited to the 701; one of my favourites, the Senn 595, regularly cops a bashing for no apparent reason, and I get quite irritable about that. The trick is not to let our irritation interfere with reasoned discussion.  

 

[Justin Uthadude]

Meanwhile back at the ranch . . .
I had the little sister of the Old School Trio - K501 / DT880-03 / HD580
 
My favorite is the K501 (w/K601 pads) for anything that's not electric. If it's electric, it's still nice except when I would switch to the beyer or Senn for more bass. AKG soundstage is great. The DT880 seemed to have bass that extended lower, but the Senns have a slightly stronger bass with a pleasant mid-bass bump. When I listen to the 880's for a while, they sound pretty flat with a bright treble, which is nice but occasionally grating. When I listen to the HD580's for a while, they sound pleasant and not irritating ever, but they lack soundstage and detail, which the beyer has a good amount of (soundstage). They were also either veiled/neutral/boring; call it what you want. I could listen for hours, but they weren't exciting. The beyers were exciting, but I couldn't listen to all types of music or for long periods of time. If I switched from Senns to beyers, then the mids on the DT880's seemed recessed slightly.
 
I needed to get rid of one pair to buy something else. Picture that. Either the Senn or the beyer had to go. It was looking like the HD580 was gonna get boxed until I got a new amp. Lots of power does a good thing to Senns. They got clearer, and the DT880's eventually went away.
 
As I type this, I'm listening to Diana Krall - Live in Paris with the K501's and every time someone coughs, I turn my head because I think someone came into the room. I like real.
 
2¢

 

[fishski13]

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Uncle Erik or anyone is entitled to infer anything he likes from a pricing structure, and you are entitled to disagree in as irritable a manner as you choose. 

if i can infer that unicorns exist, they must exist.  am i delusional?

 

[Katun]

I will have to admit, between the DT880 and the HD650, I am liking the HD650's sound more. At first, it was quite tough to decide which one I found superior to my ears. But after extensive comparisons, I will have to agree with Mike's review. The DT880 was indeed very detailed and clear, but with that, it brought some "dryness" to the sound. It seemed like the main infrastructure of the sound was missing. With the HD650, it felt like it had the "body" that the DT880 was missing, while filling in a bit more of the bass. Overall, both are really outstanding headphones, but I decided to keep the HD650. The DT990 on the other hand, cannot even compete with the two in my opinion.
 
Comfort on the HD650 is also vastly superior to the DT880. With the DT990, it's a bit of a toss up. HD650 will obviously scale better with amp upgrades as well...

 

[Uncle Erik]

AUncle Erik is implicitly not responsible for what he posts even though he is a Head Fi mod.

It's funny. There are lots of headphones I dislike. I've taken aim at the Denon models, haven't heard an Ultrasone I like, take a dim view of the PS-1000, and quail in horror at the Darth Beyer. I was also a critic of the HD-800... until I heard one. The crow was delicious. Yet criticizing the K-701/2 always sets off a firestorm.

On the other side of the coin, I'm a fan of the MDR-SA5000 and DT48, though they draw some heavy criticism.

As for Acix, I like the guy. Acix has been a good contributor here for some time, helps people out and never causes any trouble. I own and really enjoy "Rabbit Dreams," too. We don't agree on the K-701/2, but I don't know anyone I agree with 100%. Acix is a good guy and I look forward to meeting him one of these days.

 

[dcpoor]

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 Yet criticizing the K-701/2 always sets off a firestorm.

Maybe because you do it with such regularity, fervor, and unreasonableness. It's as if these headphones somehow personally wronged you and you now have a vendetta against them and those that like them.
 
And making silly comments/arguments such as "Akg admitting the k701's to be inferior because they're priced a bit less than it's competitors" or "the only reason people buy k701's is because they're too cheap to buy hd650's" or "only new people with no experience like k701's" certainly helps to stir up this "firestorm" you seem to enjoy so much.

 

[Kernmac]

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The trick is not to let our irritation interfere with reasoned discussion.  

That might be your trick and that's great.   I have my own values and I don't think my responses have been unreasonable.  I don't actually give a rats about the AKG 701 or any other headphone for that matter beyond my own opinions (If I like the sound then someone else's opinon doesn't have an affect on my hearing).   Sometimes I will enter reasoned discussion and other times I will just say that I think the poster is full of crap.  Take it or leave it, I don't care.
 
EDIT: 100% agree with your post above dcpoor.  UEric baits the "firestorm"..................with regular monotony. 

 

[lejaz]

Did he really make those statements that you quoted? I'd be surprised if those were direct quotes. But no one's harmed by any of this anyway. It's not so different than two guys debating about which is the better sports team or who's the best pitcher, hitter, etc. Some of the commentators on talk radio get way more worked up than the folks around here. This place is relatively civil
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 Yet criticizing the K-701/2 always sets off a firestorm.

Maybe because you do it with such regularity, fervor, and unreasonableness. It's as if these headphones somehow personally wronged you and you now have a vendetta against them and those that like them.
 
And making silly comments/arguments such as "Akg admitting the k701's to be inferior because they're priced a bit less than it's competitors" or "the only reason people buy k701's is because they're too cheap to buy hd650's" or "only new people with no experience like k701's" certainly helps to stir up this "firestorm" you seem to enjoy so much.

 

[hudamanium]

Personally I rate these headphones as
 
DT880 = HD650 > K701 = K702
 
When it comes down to the DT880 versus the HD650 it depends a lot on your personal taste and music collection. I can see how in many ways the HD650 is better, but at the same time, the DT880 has lots of its own advantages too. 
 
As for the K701/K702.... They're still good headphones IMO but AKG hasn't touched them in such a long time that other companies have caught up in both pricing and quality. They didn't get worse over time.... but they're not that great of a buy anymore. 

 

[Kernmac]

I can't comment on the HD650 as I have not heard one for long enough or in conditions that I would claim to be able to form a valid opinion.
 
Of the DT880 and AKG 701 I feel they are at  very similar levels of sound quality, and are more similar than different in their respective sound signatures.  I would prefer the DT880 over the 701 as an all rounder however for acoustic/indie type music (which I listen to a lot of) I find the K701 sublime and having the edge over the beyer.  As I have other all rounders (Ultasone Pro900 and Ed8) the DT880 (although excellent IMO) did not get enough headtime, and so I moved it on and kept the K701 for its intimate acoustic sound.

 

[Acix]

 
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It's funny. There are lots of headphones I dislike. I've taken aim at the Denon models, haven't heard an Ultrasone I like, take a dim view of the PS-1000, and quail in horror at the Darth Beyer. I was also a critic of the HD-800... until I heard one. The crow was delicious. Yet criticizing the K-701/2 always sets off a firestorm. On the other side of the coin, I'm a fan of the MDR-SA5000 and DT48, though they draw some heavy criticism.As for Acix, I like the guy. Acix has been a good contributor here for some time, helps people out and never causes any trouble. I own and really enjoy "Rabbit Dreams," too. We don't agree on the K-701/2, but I don't know anyone I agree with 100%. Acix is a good guy and I look forward to meeting him one of these days.

Thanks for the compliments Erik! I highly appreciate...and of course our disagreement is not personal, but honestly I don't quite understand your obsessive attack on the K-70X. I do agree with you that on some tube amps the K-702 can sound a little weird (bass and the upper mids), but is not always the case. Since you own my album, and if you'll have a chance to be around some SPL amp + K-702 recable you'll be able to A/B to the HD-800. After a few minutes listened to my album take a deep breath and turn up the volume knob to 0 db with the 800's and +2 db with the K702 hold this position for minute or two and start to lower the volume. After this experience I hope our path will clear up.
 
BTW, my K-702 sound great with the Headfive too, just not the same level as the SPL amps.

 

[pp312]

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Uncle Erik or anyone is entitled to infer anything he likes from a pricing structure, and you are entitled to disagree in as irritable a manner as you choose. 

if i can infer that unicorns exist, they must exist.  am i delusional?

No, but I'm afraid you're not very well versed in the rules of logic.