[tin427]

I understand if you don't wish to release graphs, but what I don't understand is why you need to be so defensive about it.

Actually most manufacturer wont release the official FR graphs isnt it?

 

[lewisbot]

   
 
I understand if you don't wish to release graphs, but what I don't understand is why you need to be so defensive about it.

That's just tumblr speak for "no".

 

[FullCircle]

   
 
I understand if you don't wish to release graphs, but what I don't understand is why you need to be so defensive about it.

 
That isn't being defensive, that is being factual. It is Noble's policy, graphs of any sort are not released.
 

 

[VisceriousZERO]

Could I ask why?

 

[FullCircle]

  Could I ask why?

 
There are many reasons why.
 
Currenlty there is a company using my desings, even posting photos of CIEMs that I BUILT complete with my "Wizard" moniker and advertizing them as something they created, in order to promote itself and try to increase sales.
 
Who is to say, they would not do the same with any graphs that I posted as well?
 
Futher more, there really isn't a "controlling body" over the head phone industry. There is no goverment agency that walks in and asks for calibration forms, there is no qualified/certified goverment calibration agency offering their services, and no certification requiements to be posted on the walls of the facility etc (unlike the hearing aid industry)
 
With that in mind, if calibration can be "willy nilly" what does a graph mean to begin with?
 
Beyond that, who is even to say a posted graph is really the graph that belongs to a particular head set?
 
People don't always "play fair" and from what my experiences have taught me, most peoplde do not.
 
Thus this is a cicular discussion, if not a debate, and it is our policy not to engage in this activity at all. 

 

[Watagump]

Look at it this way folks, its like certain restaurants not letting out a top secret recipe.

 

[dleblanc343]

  Look at it this way folks, its like certain restaurants not letting out a top secret recipe.

Not quite... but they're indeed not obliged under any way to share.
 
Besides, people can try and measure the Noble's if they really wanted to.

 

[VisceriousZERO]

   
There are many reasons why.
 
Currenlty there is a company using my desings, even posting photos of CIEMs that I BUILT complete with my "Wizard" moniker and advertizing them as something they created, in order to promote itself and try to increase sales.
 
Who is to say, they would not do the same with any graphs that I posted as well?
 
Futher more, there really isn't a "controlling body" over the head phone industry. There is no goverment agency that walks in and asks for calibration forms, there is no qualified/certified goverment calibration agency offering their services, and no certification requiements to be posted on the walls of the facility etc (unlike the hearing aid industry)
 
With that in mind, if calibration can be "willy nilly" what does a graph mean to begin with?
 
Beyond that, who is even to say a posted graph is really the graph that belongs to a particular head set?
 
People don't always "play fair" and from what my experiences have taught me, most peopld do not.
 
Thus this is a cicular discussion, if not a debate, and it is our policy not to engage in this activity at all. 

 
 
Interesting Thanks for the info, nice to hear the other side of the "measurements debate"  from one member of the industry.
 
Also I've been listening to my ZX1 for the past few hours with the K10 and I cannot believe how beautiful this sounds.

 

[Sauntere]

  Look at it this way folks, its like certain restaurants not letting out a top secret recipe.

NO, it's nothing like that. Letting out a recipe would be the same as handing over a list of hardware components along with instructions on how to put it all together. Frequency graphs are akin to photos of the dish.. Can't tell what it tastes like but it sure looks good...  
 
Personally i think it's kind of lame and so are the reasons given for not releasing them.  If you own them and love them you don't care how the graph looks. If you are considering buying, seeing graphs may tip you over. If you don't like the look of the graph there are always plenty of reviews and sound impressions... 
 
I accept that we won't see any graphs ... i know i know.. THE END, but the reasons are nonsensical
 
Won't stop me from buying them either.

 

[Watagump]

  Not quite... but they're indeed not obliged under any way to share.
 
Besides, people can try and measure the Noble's if they really wanted to.

 
 
People can try and copy recipes also, just why make it easier?

 

[Watagump]

   
 
Interesting Thanks for the info, nice to hear the other side of the "measurements debate"  from one member of the industry.
 
Also I've been listening to my ZX1 for the past few hours with the K10 and I cannot believe how beautiful this sounds.

 
 
You mean $2500 or so in gear sounds good?

 

[VisceriousZERO]

   
 
You mean $2500 or so in gear sounds good?

 
 
I have worse, honestly

 

[Watagump]

   
 
I have worse, honestly

Meaning what, more expensive yet sounds worse?

 

[xProvidence]

Got my N4 yesterday afternoon and sound-wise, these are definitely keepers. Long term comfort will decide whether or not I put them on sale, though. They're quite bulky and only the large biflanges gave me a seal. If I find my Meelec biflanges I'll definitely give those a shot. The other tips did not give me a seal, which is a disappointment since everyone seems to like the blue tips. I'm also not able to wear the left properly due to my industrial piercing but I get a seal nonetheless.

Anyways, these sound amazing. I don't have a hi-res DAP so I've been using my phone, HTC One. Compared to the Westone 4r, the N4 just has a little less bass slam but the quality is much better. It is more textured and detailed, though I can see why people would want the N6. Mids are neutral, addictively so, as well as the highs, which are smooth yet provides better extension than the 4r's. They are less forgiving than the 4r's though and poor bitrate songs sound, well...poor. My favourite thing about the N4 right now is the added dimensionality to the music. The soundstage is more intimate but it is layered. There is now a noticeable distance between sounds. (EDIT: Front to back and left to right is a lot more distinguishable. It's difficult to describe how I hear, heck FEEL, it but think of layers and layers in the soundstage.) I loved the 4r's soundstage but the N4's is just something else. Positioning and detail retrieval is just awesome.

My only experience with IEMs that try to be neutral are the A161p. Those were unlistenable for me due to the tiny soundstage. Everything was "in your face" and I tried my best to like the IEM but I just couldn't. This made me think twice about the N4 but curiosity won anyways. Well I am very glad I made the purchase. I cannot compare the two because I don't know how the A161p sounds well enough. I will say that if you're thinking of getting the N4, don't wait. You'd just be missing out.

 

[svyr]

NO, it's nothing like that. Letting out a recipe would be the same as handing over a list of hardware components along with instructions on how to put it all together. Frequency graphs are akin to photos of the dish.. Can't tell what it tastes like but it sure looks good...  

Personally i think it's kind of lame and so are the reasons given for not releasing them.  If you own them and love them you don't care how the graph looks. If you are considering buying, seeing graphs may tip you over. If you don't like the look of the graph there are always plenty of reviews and sound impressions... 

+1
or rather - how your car measures performance wise not how 'the reviewer felt it drives'

otherwise goldenears or whoever else will release it and speculate about it and THEN you definitely go 'oh but how was it measured'. imo if there are graphs by a company - at least they consistently provide measurements using the same standard (e.g. UM... i sort of think. maybe. who knows. but they have been providing some measurements all along)

re: what measurements - i don't mean fr chart alone - but the full suite - CSD, FR, impulse response, impedance and phase - and specs of the ear coupler, mic and measuring gear. even tips and insertion depth :| :O)
^ok i see the point, the more you ask about the more variation between different people you can get, but same place - new graph - same story unless published change of gear. e.g. Tyll/Innerfidelity.

*cough* yes we appreciate the 'a company wizard branding similar products' but uh, same policy before that too - so yea.
we can argue night and day that Tyll's graphs will be a better story to some people than reviews and won't mean anything to others and both are true and then we can bag and tag reviewers for not providing consistent reviews and not knowing what affects how they hear things or how others might.