[ninjames]

Yeah ... finding it hard to take this rec from Purrin seriously after saying anything less than the upgraded Bifrost would be keeping the Vali 50 percent under its potential. It's hyperbole like that which this hobby of our's doesn't need! I'm going to get the Vali, but those impressions are basically worthless after that!

 

[zerodeefex]

Well I'll be a monkey's uncle. I'm going to have to second Purrin's recommendation that a better DAC is justified with the Vali. I moved from the ODAC to the X-Sabre with Vali > HD800s/Paradox this weekend and the improvement was noticeable. Bass was a little more detailed, but midrange clarity increased noticeably and the soundstage has opened up a ton. In fact, I think this is a great pairing as the slightly sterile X-Sabre benefits from the liquid quality of the Vali. 
 
I literally am contemplating a much nicer DAC purchase for my main rig so I can take the X-Sabre home to pair it with the Vali in my beside rig. This little amp is really a winner. 

 

[M-13]

  Well I'll be a monkey's uncle. I'm going to have to second Purrin's recommendation that a better DAC is justified with the Vali. I moved from the ODAC to the X-Sabre with Vali > HD800s/Paradox this weekend and the improvement was noticeable. Bass was a little more detailed, but midrange clarity increased noticeably and the soundstage has opened up a ton. In fact, I think this is a great pairing as the slightly sterile X-Sabre benefits from the liquid quality of the Vali. 
 
I literally am contemplating a much nicer DAC purchase for my main rig so I can take the X-Sabre home to pair it with the Vali in my beside rig. This little amp is really a winner. 

Congrats on the X-Sabre! Did you get that holiday discount?
 
My Concero is said to share a similar signature. Your sabre shouldn't be sterile if it sounds anything like the Concero. It's actually sort of on the "musical" side for a neutral dac. But it is neutral so I guess it depends on perspectives...

 

[thegunner100]

  Not sure why people hate spending money on DACs. It's like people don't mind pairing $400 headphones to budget $100 dacs but pairing $400 dollar DACs to mid-fi cans is seen as ridiculous? After hearing what good sounding DACs can do for your musical enjoyment it's hard to go back. I have no problem with someone saying Bifrost Uber is the minimum required for me to properly enjoy the Vali.
 
People are so ready to stretch their budget and spend big money on cans and sometimes amps but dacs get no love. If your source isn't all that great, what's the point of amplifying that source and sending the signal along to a transducer stuck to your ears? You buy amps and headphones to better hear your source basically.

Good point. I will be testing the Vali w/ the hd800s (anax 2.0) using multiple sources: nfb-10es2 (line-out/pre-out), uha-6s mk ii (dac), hifimediy dac, and dx50 to hear the differences between the dacs and the scalability of the Vali. 

 

[kstuart]

  Yeah ... finding it hard to take this rec from Purrin seriously after saying anything less than the upgraded Bifrost would be keeping the Vali 50 percent under its potential. It's hyperbole like that which this hobby of our's doesn't need! I'm going to get the Vali, but those impressions are basically worthless after that!

If this were a video/TV quality discussion, then we could put two different images in the Forum and circle the difference - it is much harder to do with sound, but I will try:
 
If you can imagine a recording that has:
 
Guitar strum and then decay of that sound with room reflections
 
With that less expensive DAC, it only has:
 
Guitar strum and short blurry version of the decay
 
and then you are only hearing what Purrin is calling "50%".
 
Here is the tricky part:
 
If you hear the same song - and its a great song - on a cheap car radio - you still hear the guitar (and no decay at all) and you still love listening to the song.   And this is where most people are - using iPods with $5 earbuds.
 
So, music and audio are two different things.

 

[ninjames]

 
This is one of those things where you can put two different images in a Forum and circle the difference, but it is much harder to do with sound.
 
If you can imagine recording has:
 
Guitar strum and then decay of that sound with room reflections
 
If less expensive DAC only has:
 
Guitar strum and short blurry version of the decay
 
then you are only hearing what Purrin is calling "50%".
 
Here is the tricky part:
 
If you hear the same song - and its a great song - on a cheap car radio - you still hear the guitar and you still love listening to the song.   And this is where most people are - using iPods with $5 earbuds.
 
That's where music and audio are two different things.

I'm not sure if you're trying to honestly explain to me how audio works, but I'm not new to this. My only issue is with "50%" What you have described is not half of the sound, and the difference can not be 50%, unless this is the very first amp to directly influence its DAC to this extent in the history of our hobby. Like I said -- it's hyperbole we don't need, that "50%" It's misleading and that's why the barrier for entry into our hobby can be confusing for many.

 

[Barry S]

Yup. I didn't want to be the first to say it, but I enjoy the Vali more than the Mjolnir, at least with the Abyss. The Vali's shortcomings in bass control and overall precision are noted, but the Vali's sweeter sound, better ability to extract the softest sounds, faster more authoritative ability to make tiny changes in volume more than make up for those shortcomings.

I enjoy the Vali for its sweet signature with the LCD-X, but miss the detail, air, and soundstage of the Mjolnir. If Schiit could combine the best character of each, I'd jump on that. A tube Mjolnir? Probably not. I agree with you that the Lyr is due for an update, but maybe we have to wait for the tube statement amp. Until then, I'm happy enough switching between the Vali and the Mjolnir. Recording a little murky and congested?--Mjolnir cleans it up nicely. Clean recording with less layering and complexity--the extra harmonics of the Vali fatten up the sound. Does anyone else think the Vali adds a touch of reverb?

 

[sfwalcer]

^ WAIT WAIT WAIT!!! So my cheapo $15 ELE DAC ain't gonna fly so well with this Vali??? LMAO
 
Buys budget-fi king Vali to save money on $$$$ amps, but spends another $400 on some Biofrostie DAC to milk the other 50% of that vali goodness. Sounds like sound logic to me. 

 

[FraGGleR]

  I'm not sure if you're trying to honestly explain to me how audio works, but I'm not new to this. My only issue is with "50%" What you have described is not half of the sound, and the difference can not be 50%, unless this is the very first amp to directly influence its DAC to this extent in the history of our hobby. Like I said -- it's hyperbole we don't need, that "50%" It's misleading and that's why the barrier for entry into our hobby can be confusing for many.

It's a subjective value statement made by a guy who has several $K in DACs and has extensively tested many many more.  You can't really say it is hyperbole if he honestly believes, based on his experience if you are only hearing 50% of what the Vali can do unless you hit a certain level of quality in a DAC.  But that also doesn't mean that if all you can do is have a Modi with your Vali that your setup won't sound good.  This hobby is confusing because it is so personal.  Purrin's recommendations are no more confusing or misleading than people who claim there are no differences in DACs, amps, etc. and that ODAC/O2 is all you will ever need.  

 

[ninjames]

  It's a subjective value statement made by a guy who has several $K in DACs and has extensively tested many many more.  You can't really say it is hyperbole if he honestly believes, based on his experience if you are only hearing 50% of what the Vali can do unless you hit a certain level of quality in a DAC.  But that also doesn't mean that if all you can do is have a Modi with your Vali that your setup won't sound good.  This hobby is confusing because it is so personal.  Purrin's recommendations are no more confusing or misleading than people who claim there are no differences in DACs, amps, etc. and that ODAC/O2 is all you will ever need.  

50%. Seriously.
 
That's all I'm gonna say now. This argument obviously won't go anywhere at this point so to spare this thread and all of you excited for your Vali, we'll just kill it.
 
I'm really conflicted with the Vali. I'm getting it for sure ... but I have to buy a gaming PC. And I have a perfectly acceptable setup without the Vali so the PC is more needed ... but it's so pretty and I sol my favorite tube amp last year :[

 

[FraGGleR]

Oh, and I have put about 8 hours of burn in on the Vali.  So far, the bass is much stronger than on my HifiM8 (with no EQ).  Not precise, but not boomy.  I enjoy it very much with my HD800s.  Can't really hear any background hiss with my D2000s.  Microphonic ringing dies out within 30sec of turning on and only crops up with sharp bumps to the unit (I have the rubber feet installed) but dies down within a couple seconds.  It has a very enjoyable sound and plenty of power for the HD800s.  Easily worth the $120 compared to the amps I have and have had.  As it continues to burn in and I get more of a chance to really dig into the sound, I will update.  

 

[painted klown]

Has anyone compared the Vali to a Little Dot MKIII?
 
Sorry if this has already been asked, but this thread moves rather quickly, and it's difficult to try to weed out a single post that may not be there.

 

[MattTCG]

I will say that Purrin's claims here are suspect IMO with no disrespect intended at all. Vali better than the lyr, mojo...

  Competes with amps at 10x the cost...

 
 
Maybe that the answer is simple. The claims are true for him. He enjoys the dac just as much as he says, which is certainly true. But, does it mean that the vali is better than the lyr, mojo and competes with $1k amps for a majority of others? My guess is not likely. 
 
I'll certainly report my findings this week. 

 

[MickeyVee]

Wow! Really looking forward to my Vali arriving and pairing with the HD800.  I'm not sure what to expect but praises have been anywhere from going to super. It will be interesting to compare side by side with the WA7.  On another note, been contemplating getting an Uber Bifrost again.  There black seems uber sexy but everything I have is silver.
 
Quote:

   
Depends upon the headphone used. But with the headphones I listed above or with an HD800, a resounding yes. Lyr is notably warm sounding and has better macro-dynamics (bass impact and slam, although Vali is no slouch). Vali is more neutral and reproduces more micro-dynamics and micro-detail than Lyr. Vali is more lively sounding and detailed. Vali wins for me.

 

[Nic Rhodes]

I don't have a LD 3 but have a IVse and intial impressions (50hrs+) I think I prefer the Vali. [IVse has a very wide range of premium tubes I can use].