[Hypnotics]

How high have others been having their Lyr2s volume on when listening to their Senns?   On low gain I have mine about 1-2 o'clock and on high I still have it on about 12.  Seems a bit high to me.  I know they are high impedance cans, I just figured with all that power I wouldn't be able to turn it up near as loud.   Also, has anyone used 74 Reflektor 6N23P Gray Shield Single Wire Getter Posts with their Lyr2 and HD650 combo?  If so how do you like it?  They were recommended and bought from Rb2013 so I am sure they will sound great.  Would just like some more impressions.  

 

[Exacoustatowner]

  How high have others been having their Lyr2s volume on when listening to their Senns?   On low gain I have mine about 1-2 o'clock and on high I still have it on about 12.  Seems a bit high to me.  I know they are high impedance cans, I just figured with all that power I wouldn't be able to turn it up near as loud.   Also, has anyone used 74 Reflektor 6N23P Gray Shield Single Wire Getter Posts with their Lyr2 and HD650 combo?  If so how do you like it?  They were recommended and bought from Rb2013 so I am sure they will sound great.  Would just like some more impressions.  

I've not got an HD650. Bob has a pair of HD800's so if they sound good with his Lyr and HD800's I would expect the HD650 to give similar results. I've a pair of the 75 Reflektor 6N23P Gray Shield Single Wire Getter Posts- and they sound good with my HiFiMan HE-560's.
I think the 74 Reflektor 6N23P Silver Shield Single Wire Getter Posts-sound better in that I found the Grey shields to be a little rolled off in the high frequencies. That said, MY EARS are rolled off at the high end so it might not bother you at all.
With the Silver shields I am less likely to use any EQ to compensate.
I expect they will sound better than the stock tubes.

 

[Hypnotics]

Great,  I am really looking forward to getting them.  They should be here any day now.  I think I might run the Lyr2 for a while with the stock tubes to get a base line of what it sounds like, that way when I roll those Reflektors in Ill be able to tell how much better they are compared to stock. 

 

[Exacoustatowner]

  Great,  I am really looking forward to getting them.  They should be here any day now.  I think I might run the Lyr2 for a while with the stock tubes to get a base line of what it sounds like, that way when I roll those Reflektors in Ill be able to tell how much better they are compared to stock. 

" I think I might run the Lyr2 for a while with the stock tubes to get a base line of what it sounds like…." Excellent practice!
There is also some time recommended for breaking in the SS Amp. You should also know that many of us feel the sound improves when the Lyr or Lyr2 has been on for at least a few hours. Something to do with the Mosfets needing to be be warmed up and thermally stable for best results.
 
Not that it does not sound good from the time you turn it on-just that it improves.I notice it most with Classical music.

 

[DavidA]

  You should also know that many of us feel the sound improves when the Lyr or Lyr2 has been on for at least a few hours. Something to do with the Mosfets needing to be be warmed up and thermally stable for best results.
 
Not that it does not sound good from the time you turn it on-just that it improves.I notice it most with Classical music.

Letting it warm up for a few hours in Hawaii is a waste, mine gets hot enough to keep food warm after 10 minutes, always need to turn on the AC when I use it, having the BH Crack next to it doesn't help either.

 

[Exacoustatowner]

  Letting it warm up for a few hours in Hawaii is a waste, mine gets hot enough to keep food warm after 10 minutes, always need to turn on the AC when I use it, having the BH Crack next to it doesn't help either.

Lucky DavidA!

 

[Hypnotics]

 
Just got my 74' Reflecktors SWGP Grey shields in the mail.  Pretty excited to roll them in,  gonna be hard for me to wait and burn the stock tubes in 1st knowing what I have waiting for me.  Lol.

 

[Exacoustatowner]

Just got my 74' Reflecktors SWGP Grey shields in the mail.  Pretty excited to roll them in,  gonna be hard for me to wait and burn the stock tubes in 1st know what I have waiting for me.  Lol.

Patience is not always easily achieved. Are you going for 50, 100, or 200 hours?

 

[Eric510]

Just got my 74' Reflecktors SWGP Grey shields in the mail.  Pretty excited to roll them in,  gonna be hard for me to wait and burn the stock tubes in 1st knowing what I have waiting for me.  Lol.

I was actually chatting with Bob today about his thoughts on these tubes. Thinking about pulling the trigger on them as well. I'm hoping for something a bit warmer then my '68 Telefunken e88cc's.

 

[Exacoustatowner]

I was actually chatting with Bob today about his thoughts on these tubes. Thinking about pulling the trigger on them as well. I'm hoping for something a bit warmer then my '68 Telefunken e88cc's.

Bob would know. The 75 Reflektor GS I bought from him are warm

 

[KeithEmo]

A quick thought about tubes..... that may save a few of you a lot of money.
 
Back when tubes were considered to be "current technology", they were also considered to be a commodity item. In other words, when you bought a tube, you asked for a "12AX7" and the store gave you whichever brand they happened to have. There were a few brands that considered themselves to be "premium brands", but that claim was based on specific parameters like "lower noise" or "better resistance to microphonics". However, by and large, specific brands were NOT considered to "sound better than others" by most people. (A "premium" Telefunken 12AX7 cost about a buck more than a "cheap" RCA one... the price difference was about the same as the difference between Premium and regular gasoline today.... and, like gasoline, in most cases you didn't expect to notice much difference.)
 
My point here is that there were no such thing as "premium audiophile tubes designed to sound better". While it's obviously true that each manufacturer fabricated their tubes a little differently, the differences in sound were really caused by the interaction between the slight differences in electrical characteristics and the circuitry in the equipment you were using them in. In other words, a "silver wire" or "round getter" tube isn't usually electrically any better than a "black plate" or "square getter" version, and neither owes any difference in frequency response to "how good it is" - it's just a matter of random chance that a certain brand and version of tube happens to sound a certain way in a certain amp. (Manufacturers often claimed that their tubes were lower in noise, just like gasoline companies all claim their gas is "better for your car", but the differences were actually pretty small.)
 
Now, long after the fact, someone notices that a certain batch of Brand X tubes sound especially the way they prefer with a certain amp and headphones... so now tubes of that particular brand and batch (which exist in limited supply) suddenly become "collectible" and the price goes up... often ridiculously high.
 
The point I'm trying to make here - which may save you a LOT of money - is this:
 
For the most part, and excluding some especially poor quality modern tubes which perform below-spec, the differences you hear between tubes are due to how the electrical characteristics of a certain tube interact with the circuitry in a certain piece of equipment. This means that a given specific type of tube that sounds especially good in a certain piece of equipment may NOT sound the same way in a different piece of equipment (since there are a limited number of tube circuits, you MAY find that your amp sounds a lot like some other brand and model with similar tubes - just don't count on it.)
 
What you need to take away from this is that, for the most part, THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A GOOD OR BAD SOUNDING TUBE; there is simply a tube that sounds good or bad IN YOUR PARTICULAR AMP. And, if you think about this, you'll see how it can make life a lot more fun - and save you a lot of money...... because it means that the $200 Telefunken super-special square purple plate tube that sounds so good in a Brand X amp (which is why they're selling for so much) might not sound very good in yours; and it also means that, in your amp, the RCA tube that goes for $5 on eBay may actually sound BETTER. Therefore, unless you know SPECIFICALLY that a certain vintage or brand tube will sound good WITH YOUR PARTICULAR AMP AND OTHER EQUIPMENT, you're much better off spending your money on a selection of cheaper tubes to experiment with than on one super-expensive tube that sounded good in some other piece of equipment.
 
(This also means that a tube vendor who sells you a particular tube because it is known to sound a certain way in the exact brand and model of amp you have may be doing you a service, but the guy who's just trying to sell you "a super premium audiophile tube" because he's claiming it will sound great in anything is probably more interested in your money. Again, I'm not saying that his super-expensive tube won't sound great in your amp; just that it's no more likely to do so than a different, and much cheaper, tube. Now, since there are a limited number of types of tube circuits out there, as you become familiar with your particular equipment, and read what other people experience, you may well find out that tubes usually sound similar in your amp to how they sound in specific other brands and models - because their circuitry is similar... but, until then, don't assume that different tubes will sound similarly good or bad in different equipment.)
 
The biggest point here is that you don't have to spend a lot of money and buy exotic tubes whose price has gone through the roof because everyone else has "discovered" them (and you may just be disappointed if you do). There are lots of tubes out there that can be had for very LOW prices, and some of them may sound as good as the most expensive tube you can buy IN YOUR EQUIPMENT. (Personally, I would find it a lot more fun to find a "treasure" in a $50 box of tubes from eBay than to buy a really expensive "premium" tube, and then wonder if it was really worth the price.... and, after you find your treasure, you can pass the box on to someone else for $5 less so they can have the fun of hunting for their treasure.)

 

[playmeoasis]

Great post KeithEmo.
Now I am somewhat relieved that it's not gonna cost me limbs to tube roll.
You mentioned that finding the right tubes for the amp you own is the most important thing. 
That said, what do people recommend me to go with Lyr 2.
My headphone is HE-560 and I listen to almost everything except classical music.
But my favourite genre is probably classic rock from 60-80's. 
 
The stock tubes sound pretty darn good after burn in but if I could make the amp sing better without emptying my wallet, I am down to explore. 
What I want, with respect to the stock tubes, is more enhanced bass.
With the stock tubes, the bass is definitely deep and accurate but lacks some punch and quantity (kinda too dry).
I would like it to have slightly more "boom" but without being bloated (does this even make sense).
Fairly happy with how mid and treble sound, but that said, I don't want them to suffer for better bass. 
 
I dug through this thread for a while and many suggest tubes that are easily $200+ a pair.
And many of those suggestions came from classical music lovers, who probably have quite different sound preference to mine. 
 
So, shed me some light, fellow classic rock lovers.
Thanks in advance. 

 

[money4me247]

the problem is that even the nice 'budget' tubes stared getting some buzz, so the prices of the tubes are no longer budget. i actually have a bit of a sneaking suspicion that some tube sellers may hype up certain tubes just to raise prices.

keithemo is completely right. tubes were a cheap disposable item that no one would pay a premium for during its time. It is outdated techology at this point. however, there is a small subset of interested 'audiophile' buyers and the perception of limited stock... you know what people say about audiophiles & their money hahah.

great position to be in if you are a tube seller, poor proposition for hobbyists. also hard to trust tube reviews since conclusions are so vastly different.

 

[reddog]

the problem is that even the nice 'budget' tubes stared getting some buzz, so the prices of the tubes are no longer budget. i actually have a bit of a sneaking suspicion that some tube sellers may hype up certain tubes just to raise prices.

keithemo is completely right. tubes were a cheap disposable item that no one would pay a premium for during its time. It is outdated techology at this point. however, there is a small subset of interested 'audiophile' buyers and the perception of limited stock... you know what people say about audiophiles & their money hahah.

great position to be in if you are a tube seller, poor proposition for hobbyists. also hard to trust tube reviews since conclusions are so vastly different.

+1 Well said. The problem you describe is one reason I like current produced tubes. Current produced tube prices have remained pretty stable compared to NOS budget tubes. I need to try more current production tubes, when I have more money.

 

[KeithEmo]

  Great post KeithEmo.
Now I am somewhat relieved that it's not gonna cost me limbs to tube roll.
You mentioned that finding the right tubes for the amp you own is the most important thing. 
That said, what do people recommend me to go with Lyr 2.
My headphone is HE-560 and I listen to almost everything except classical music.
But my favourite genre is probably classic rock from 60-80's. 
 
The stock tubes sound pretty darn good after burn in but if I could make the amp sing better without emptying my wallet, I am down to explore. 
What I want, with respect to the stock tubes, is more enhanced bass.
With the stock tubes, the bass is definitely deep and accurate but lacks some punch and quantity (kinda too dry).
I would like it to have slightly more "boom" but without being bloated (does this even make sense).
Fairly happy with how mid and treble sound, but that said, I don't want them to suffer for better bass. 
 
I dug through this thread for a while and many suggest tubes that are easily $200+ a pair.
And many of those suggestions came from classical music lovers, who probably have quite different sound preference to mine. 
 
So, shed me some light, fellow classic rock lovers.
Thanks in advance. 

 
First, let me admit that I've designed tube equipment, and repaired plenty of it, but I really prefer to listen to solid state equipment - and my current headphone amp is an Asgard. Therefore, I don't have any specific tube recommendations for the Lyr. That said, though, you should bear in mind that the differences between tubes are somewhat subtle... so you may get a little bit more bass, or clearer or "woolier" bass, or a little bit more "depth" or "sparkle" with one choice or another, but there generally isn't going to be as much difference between different tubes in the same amp as, say, the difference between different amps - and some specific circuits tend to amplify the differences that are there while others tend to minimize them. (As with many things audiophile, people do tend to exaggerate the differences between tubes - especially when they're describing ones with impressive price tags on them.

)
 
Also, as for suggestions, as someone else already said, once people "discover" a particular tube that works well and post that recommendation, the price tends to shoot up rather suddenly. Therefore, the trick is to try a bunch of brands and types that other people haven't tried yet, and hope that you get to discover "a new one". The other thing is that, when considering future equipment purchases, it's not a bad idea to look in advance and try to buy an amp that uses a tube number that's still readily available and not too pricey.
 
For example, if you look at the price of 12AX7 tubes on eBay (12AX7's were one of the most common and most popular tubes ever), you will see a lot of "already discovered" specific brands and variations going for up to several hundred $$$ apiece... yet there's some fellow right now selling 1975 vintage Russian military ones for $17.99 per set of four. Now, maybe they're great, and maybe they're awful, but it wouldn't cost very much to find out (and he had an ended listing for a batch of 50 that didn't sell for a little over $100). There are almost eight thousand listings for 12AX7's on eBay right this minute - so I'm sure there are a few bargains in there somewhere (but it may take a little work to find them). Since there are a limited number of different types of "common" tubes which are used by lots of amps, it seems like it would make sense for a group of tube lovers to get together, make a point of buying the same amp (or different amps that use the same or equivalent tube types), then all chip in and buy a whole bunch of cheap tubes, and spend a few weekends finding out which tubes sound good in whose amps... just a thought.