[swarthy]

Well, that is the first course of action. But better yet we might want to actually know if we are even measuring these headphones correctly?

 

[DigitalFreak]

I'm sure purrin knows what he's doing. I doubt he's some 18 year old kid living in his parents basement playing with headphones for giggles. If you really want a cross reference on any findings the only other person I know who has the measuring gear would be Tyll. If Tyll was to measure the exact same headphones as purrin and started showing wild fluctuations in his graphs then we would know without a doubt that something was rotten in Bayer Village.
 
Of coarse now we're asking two people to put a lot of work in graphing headphones. You'd have to secure X amount of headphones and have them grouped at least 4 or 5 headphones all within a certain serial number range to see if any differences found were related to production batches. Both Tyll and purrin would have to spend a lot of time measuring, logging serials and shipping headphones all over the place back to their original owners. You'd then have to have purrin and Tyll in contact on a constant basis to double check one anothers graphs and to be sure the graphs are a match to the right headphone. That's really a lot of work, I wouldn't be surprised if Tyll said no because he is a busy guy. And even if they both agreed to do it and showed that both their measurements match and there was a QC problem I doubt some people would care or worse some people would just bash the graphs and claim their Bayers are the best they've ever heard.

 

[ChavaC]

Wow I was considering these but looking at those graphs I might have to give it some more thought. I really hope there's just some interference between the T1/DT1350 tesla drivers and the measuring system being used, but if not then wow. Big thanks to purrin and everyone who has sent and will send in their phones to shed some light on this.
 

 

[purrin]

Quote:

Swarthy could you please calm down. We're discussing headphones not insulting your wife there's no reason to get upset about a difference of opinion.
 
Purrin if it means anything I'm still willing to send you my DT1350's. Maybe if you can get enough measurements and log the bad pairs serial numbers maybe it'll be possible to come up with a pattern of which ones are failing and what to look for.

 
I'll take you up on your offer toward the end of this year. I've got quite a few headphones in the queue waiting to be measured and a big meet to plan.
 

Seriously, Purrin, you were deliberately against these from the start. Do we need to go back several hundred posts.

 

I was against them from the start because the left and right channels were off 4db (or was it 6db) in the bass until the treble in which they were off 2db. Generally, I am against stuff that sounds odd. I think most people on the forums here are too.
 
Also if you actually read my comparison of three supra-auras (HD25, M80, and DT1350), I felt that the M80 and DT1350 (the good one slwiser sent to me) far outclassed the HD25. I eventually gave the nod to the M80, despite the M80 being less clear sounding than the DT1350, because of the strong priority I place on a tamed-down more well behaved treble.
 
Maybe $300 is not a lot to you, but I don't want to pay $300 to get a random sound like this. $300 is still a lot of money to me and I would expect certain quality standards.

Nor do I wish to keep shipping back and purchasing the same item over and over again until I get one that sounds right. I don't think most people on this forum want to either. To those who have good sounding units, that's great.
 
I see nothing wrong educating potential buyers of the possibly (I never said certainty) of this. It at least lets them know there are options (don't bother, return for refund, get another, buy multiple ones, etc.) rather than totally disregard them as crap if they happened to get a bad one. As the apologist and ambassador for the DT1350, you should at least be grateful for this.

 

[PhoenixClaw]

I love my pair of the DT1350s, and I honestly thank purrin for what he's been doing - measuring the same headphone model 3 times instead of stopping at one, calling it a day and moving on to other headphones. Much to my (and others')  dismay, there does seem to be a QC problem, whether or not you would call "3 out of 3" a significant statistic. The problem here is that the measurements show that the variations of the DT1350 is random and not due to systematic errors. Otherwise, we would simply see more wonky sets but with more or less similarly off FR. 
 
I do not understand what is the point of attacking purrin, when what he is doing is a service for the community. To us DT1350 fans, it may be disheartening to know our favourite headphones  are not as good as we hope them to be. Maybe, instead of insults, someone can try and contact Beyer. 
 
While we do want good headphones, we do not want to mislead other people. There is a potential for people to buy the DT1350 less. But, let's face it. That's how business goes. At least we don't have militant haters of the DT1350. 

 

[rasmushorn]

Quote:

I love my pair of the DT1350s, and I honestly thank purrin for what he's been doing - measuring the same headphone model 3 times instead of stopping at one, calling it a day and moving on to other headphones. Much to my (and others')  dismay, there does seem to be a QC problem, whether or not you would call "3 out of 3" a significant statistic. The problem here is that the measurements show that the variations of the DT1350 is random and not due to systematic errors. Otherwise, we would simply see more wonky sets but with more or less similarly off FR. 
 
I do not understand what is the point of attacking purrin, when what he is doing is a service for the community. To us DT1350 fans, it may be disheartening to know our favourite headphones  are not as good as we hope them to be. Maybe, instead of insults, someone can try and contact Beyer. 
 
While we do want good headphones, we do not want to mislead other people. There is a potential for people to buy the DT1350 less. But, let's face it. That's how business goes. At least we don't have militant haters of the DT1350. 

 
Well said - and I agree! I would also like to hear what Beyerdynamic have to say about this issue. 

 

[Caze]

Did a quick comparison and the ones in the middle look very similar to the ones that Tyll measured. I think that adds some more credibility to purrins results. Tylls pair seems also to be from the same s/n range as mine, which makes me wonder if I have channel imbalance as well. Then again, as I haven't noticed it so far so maybe I shouldn't go listening for it.

 

[slwiser]

FYI, my SN is between 13500 and 14000.

 

[swarthy]

"despite the M80 being less clear sounding than the DT1350, because of the strong priority I place on a tamed-down more well behaved treble."

Okay, we are way off base here. So you like an awful rubbish treble is what you are saying? Yet who were the people attacking me for EQ'ing the treble in the DTs EVER SO SLIGHTLY at high volumes?

Good lord this forum is ******* hilarious. The fact I don't even use an EQ unless I am listening at volumes in the 110dB plus range shows that to my ears there is absolutely nothing wrong with these phones at the lower volumes most people here are listening at. Albums with tons of treble and midrange like Siamese Dream have never sounded better and I have tried both the other headphones with this album in particular though I cannot say I would ever even put on those other two because of the SUBPAR presentation of the guitars and cymbals in particular. I could bear the M80, and really wish they isolated better, despite them being ugly as sin, and there is no way in HELL the HD25s are anything but beats headphones and in general total PoS.

I have read a couple reviews of M80s saying they have tremendous bass and such. Well, the bass is there but it certainly isn't controlled or audiophile bass. I get that same slam reviewers seem to be having trouble with from my DTs. I have no problem putting the volumes up to levels where the intense bass is too much in that sealed environment. So people either need to start amping their headphones are they are talking rubbish. I use a single IDMAX 12 in my car ported to spec and powered by 1200 watts so I am not exactly some kind of bass noob. I know good bass when I hear it.

And really, people asking for there to be no criticism of Purrin get real. Grow up and grow a thicker skin. Debate is debate. I respect Purrin's opinions and like his humor but that doesn't mean I am going to agree that these are very troubled headphones. I would have sold them already if there was anything in this range I was interested in. I don't have a grand to blow on phones right now and I would rather wait for the next gen phones when I do that.

 

[DigitalFreak]

Whoa, swarthy reign in your horses you're starting to throw out statements without really thinking about what you're saying. First of all speaking as somebody who owns the the DT1350 the HD25-I-II and was one of the reviewers for V-MODA when the M-80 was first released I personally feel none of those cans can be classed as bad cans.
 
The DT1350 is an excellent very revealing headphone but if you throw some mainstream rock pop or modern day metal at it it's not going to shine. You throw the same genre's at the HD25 it sounds vicious and excels. The HD25 doesn't do anything that would put it in first place but it does everything well enough to earn it a second or third spot. When you add up all the second and third place finishes you suddenly realize the HD25 is one very potent all arounder. The M 80 is another matter. Yes the highs are overly smooth and yes the mid range isn't as detailed as the DT1350's and yes the bass has a slight emphasis to it but the thing you should remember is it's not engineered or marketed for people like us. It's not meant for sitting down on a home rig ripping apart music note by note for study it's meant to throw some of the more mainstream pop and electronic music on it and have a heck of a good time bopping to your tunes while on the go. It's marketed for the younger crowd who are tired of Beats like mud and want something with a better presentation but will still sound fun. Just because people like you or people like me like and appreciate a good controlled detailed neutral bass doesn't mean everyone else should or has to.
 
Can the HD25 or the M 80 be classed as a can you don't personally like because they have certain attributes you don't like? Yes they can and that's perfectly fine. What I'm getting at with all this is as much as you or me or purrin may like a close to neutral sound as possible other people out there will hate it no matter what. You only have to chat up a bass head or a raver kid to know what I mean. So please relax and try and be a little more civil in your responses. There's really no need to get upset and and start throwing out edited swear words in your rebuttals. I'm not trying to be judgmental with you all I'm saying is this subject is not worth raising ones blood pressure nor getting banned over.
 
@purrin
When you have time send me a PM and I'll send you my DT1350's. Personally I'm very curious to see what you come up with.

 

[purrin]

Quote:

"despite the M80 being less clear sounding than the DT1350, because of the strong priority I place on a tamed-down more well behaved treble."
Okay, we are way off base here. So you like an awful rubbish treble is what you are saying? Yet who were the people attacking me for EQ'ing the treble in the DTs EVER SO SLIGHTLY at high volumes?
Good lord this forum is ******* hilarious. 

 
You are getting me confused with someone else in your hurt and anger. I never attacked you for EQ'ing treble. Please calm down. I think you are reading too much I what I am saying. I am not trying to attack you.
 
If I prefer a more rolled "awful rubbish treble", then so it be.

 

[Currawong]

swarthy: There's no problem here, relax. People's preferences with treble, mids and bass are all different, often due to the kinds of music they listen to.

 

[dragoonv]

I have to give Swarthy credits for typing out so many huge posts, I read the first couple posts and I just tend to ignore them now. I have to give credits to those who are still bothered to spend time reading them.......
 
No offensive Swarthy, they are just too long for me....

 

[Lillee]

Yeah settle down Swarthy, they're only headphones dude... Sometimes I wonder if you work for Beyerdynamic j/k Well you certainly have enough passion that they should hire you! 

 
It's not necessarily a bad thing being passionate about something... just sayin

 

[swarthy]

That would be cute. An alias. On the forums.

Also, funny how this works two ways and I think that people come here with an axe to grind on these headphones. As Purrin said, my work here gentlemen is purely business. I have a company to watch after.