[theaudiologist1]

For 90% classical music you shouldnt discount the hd800 or hd800S. You can get a SDR modded hd800 which lessens the 6k spike, or an 800S which already has this stock. You mentioned you already had an amp but you didnt mention WHICH amp/dac. Running off a good tube amp the hd800 is faaantastic. The only headphone on your list I havent owned is the arya, and yet I STILL own the hd800 for classical music listening.

Trying to find 'the one' headphone that works best with every genre is pretty much a losing battle, but finding a headphone that works with your MAIN music preference, and performs well in others is the way to go.

My dac/amp is the RHA L1. The DAC is great, but the amp (solid state) is a bit weak, but OK to at least drive it to 111-112dB max volume (my amp also has mid and high gain so maybe it can go louder). I'm really scared of getting an amp since my dac/amp is $500, and getting a cheap $100 amp would degrade the sound and render the dac's convertion useless. Do I have to spend the same amount of money or even more ($500+) to keep the sound quality intact?

So for now I just want to get the headphones. Is the HD800S really worth the extra $1000 over the HD800? How do I decrease the treble spike of the HD800's with EQ? I've never used a (proper) EQ before!

Personally my R70x'es works great with all the genres I tested.

 

[silent-circuit]

What aren't you getting from the current setup?

Oh. You're running portable.

From my perspective? There's the problem.

What you want can't be done on battery power without a significant budget. /Vastly/ more than your phones cost, certainly.

 

[Deolum]

Because I've seen comparisons with some preferring the R70x and others HD600. It's not a "blowout" win.

Nothing in the 1000 - 1500 bracket is. Except electrostats. So don't expect too much of an upgrade just because it's expensive.

 

[theaudiologist1]

What aren't you getting from the current setup?

Oh. You're running portable.

From my perspective? There's the problem.

What you want can't be done on battery power without a significant budget. /Vastly/ more than your phones cost, certainly.

I'm fine with my setup, just want to upgrade to endgame headphones. I'm not spending more on the amp than the headphones. That would be dumb. But I also don't want something cheap which would downgrade my setup. Is there an amp you can recommend?

 

[gimmeheadroom]

How do you EQ? I've never done EQ, specially after hearing audiophiles never use it. Doesn't it decrease sound quality? And can DSD be EQ'd?

The RME DAC has parametric EQ. It does not reduce sound quality, no.

I am not sure if the RME EQ works for DSD. It probably does for DoP, probably impossible for DSD direct.

But I have other headphones if I don't like the way the 800s sound with this or that piece of music. The only other headphones I have that need EQ are Fostex. They need it a lot more than the 800s do.

 

[DenverW]

My dac/amp is the RHA L1. The DAC is great, but the amp (solid state) is a bit weak, but OK to at least drive it to 111-112dB max volume (my amp also has mid and high gain so maybe it can go louder). I'm really scared of getting an amp since my dac/amp is $500, and getting a cheap $100 amp would degrade the sound and render the dac's convertion useless. Do I have to spend the same amount of money or even more ($500+) to keep the sound quality intact?

So for now I just want to get the headphones. Is the HD800S really worth the extra $1000 over the HD800? How do I decrease the treble spike of the HD800's with EQ? I've never used a (proper) EQ before!

Personally my R70x'es works great with all the genres I tested.

A used 800S is under 1k here on the headfi boards. If you don't like it you can always resell it. The 800S doesn't need much in the way of EQ overall, its more for tweaking things that you prefer. I would agree that a portable dac/amp may not pair well with some higher end headphones. For example, in headphonia's review of the rha l1 he stated that it did not pair well with the hd800/S (and that he prefers those headphones on tube amps). He did state that the beyerdynamic amiron was a good pairing, and I also like the amiron quite a bit; its comfy and I enjoyed the soundstage.

If you're looking to upgrade your headphones but not anything else look for something that pairs well and matches your preferences as much as possible. If you can demo things, do it, especially if you can demo amps and dacs along with headphones. I wouldnt worry about a less expensive desktop dac 'degrading' your sound from the rha l1. There are plenty of good inexpensive dacs.

My guess is that you use your headphones mostly at home, so perhaps a portable dac amp is not the way to go? Try some other stuff and resell.

 

[theaudiologist1]

If you're looking to upgrade your headphones but not anything else look for something that pairs well and matches your preferences as much as possible. If you can demo things, do it, especially if you can demo amps and dacs along with headphones. I wouldnt worry about a less expensive desktop dac 'degrading' your sound from the rha l1. There are plenty of good inexpensive dacs.

I already have a good dac in the L1. I just want a good amp to go with it (tho it drives thr R70x pretty well and I assume the HD800s are easier to drive than the R70x). If the DAC is $500, then the amp should also be $500+ otherwise it's a downgrade (what's the point of an expensive dac if the cheap amp turns everything into a cheap $100 setup, is it even possible for a cheap amp NOT to massively degrade the conversion done by the dac)? But for that price I can get an iDSD BL. Do you know any amp (desktop or portable) that pairs well with the HD800/S and good? I might just have to get an amp and the HD800s together...for the price of a focal utopia.... The amirons are NOT a proper upgrade to the R70x. I might as well just save up for a Utopia I guess; they're 4x better than the HD800s and easier to drive. smh. I just can't afford any of that stuff. I'm in such a bad position right now: spend $500 on an amp with $1000 headphones or get another $500 dacamp with $1000 headphones or get a Focal Utopia for the same price as the other two options. I don't know what to do anymore.

 

[DenverW]

You're hung up on the idea that higher price = better. Thats just not true. You seem to think that if something doesnt cost more, its not an upgrade. I would focus a bit more on what kind of sound you like. I found out I prefer tube sound over solid state, so I have two tube amps. Also, I found that my hd800s pair better with those two tube amps than other more expensive headphones, so I still have them. I've demo'd and owned a lot of different amps, dacs, and headphones in order to get to a place where I'm happy, and I can say that some of the lesser expensive headphones I've purchased (hd600, amiron) have been high up on my favorite list.

 

[silent-circuit]

I don't think most would agree that the Focal Utopia are "4x better" than the 800S.

You have also clearly decided some things are better than others, so I guess... Share that ranking? May provide some insight in to the thought process and help in making suggestions.

 

[etroze86]

To be perfectly honest a $200 desktop stack these days will run circles around just about anything ran off of a battery. I know my setup is lower level than what you are looking for but I would take my THX amps over many many other amps that are more expensive. Just a reference of what I'm talking about.
Fiio Q1 Mark 2 DAC/AMP - sounds clean but hardly drives anything I own.
Hiby R5 DAP- Sounds Clean, drives everything I own that is balanced but I prefer something that has headroom for when bass digs deep.
Schitt Modi/Magni stack - Sounds very clean, can drive everything I own, wish it was balanced though, more power!!!!!
Monoprice 788/887 stack - Holy hell clean as it gets, pushes more power than anyone needs and this is my end game setup......tubes I need tubes lol.
To be clear you don't have a $500 DAC, you have a DAC/amp combo that has a bunch of features and is priced as such. You'll see benefit just from a newer DAC and more powerful amp at almost any price point in a desktop configuration as the mid fi tier of products have gotten so good in the last couple of years.
Listen to recommendations, try some out if you can and make an educated decision for yourself instead of seeing something is cheap then discounting it.

 

[silent-circuit]

Yeah... My now ~2 year old Topping D50 / Little Dot MK2 setup will run circles around that portable DAC/amp combo, and they were $400 new ($250 and $150 respectively) but I bought them used for about $100 less quite a while back.

Now? $500 gets you a SMSL THX stack, or a used Schiit Jotunheim 3 with the multibit DAC card. (I just picked one up off the FS/FT forms here for a bit less, shipped)

Head and shoulders above.

 

[Seledor]

The most neutral headphone ive heard is the ZMF Auteur. Very nice and you could find it used for 1300-1400$ looks great too. I have the Arya and it does have a lot of treble. dont know if you could call it neutral. I hear the Aurorus headphones 900$ are very neutral and sound great. The Focal Clear 1400$ is also said to be very neutral with good treble and bass extension.

https://www.aurorusaudio.com/Headphones-c34166183

 

[silent-circuit]

https://www.aurorusaudio.com/Headphones-c34166183

Those are cool... But they're also sold out.

 

[theaudiologist1]

To be perfectly honest a $200 desktop stack these days will run circles around just about anything ran off of a battery. I know my setup is lower level than what you are looking for but I would take my THX amps over many many other amps that are more expensive. Just a reference of what I'm talking about.
Fiio Q1 Mark 2 DAC/AMP - sounds clean but hardly drives anything I own.
Hiby R5 DAP- Sounds Clean, drives everything I own that is balanced but I prefer something that has headroom for when bass digs deep.
Schitt Modi/Magni stack - Sounds very clean, can drive everything I own, wish it was balanced though, more power!!!!!
Monoprice 788/887 stack - Holy hell clean as it gets, pushes more power than anyone needs and this is my end game setup......tubes I need tubes lol.

I actually was considering a THX AAA 789, but I was also considering a Fiio A5 just so I don't spend too much. Is the power output the only thing that matters in an amp or are there other factors? For example, a $100 amp outputs more than a $500 but the $500 sounds better in every other regard? The A5's can drive the HD800s and Auras properly, but I feel like it will make my setup sound noisy and like a $100 setup and render my DAC's conversion useless. To put it another way: would connecting a Chord Qutest to a $100 amp make the setup sound like a cheap $100 setup too? How much does the amp affect the sound quality? What's the difference between a cheap and expensive amp? Is the only difference power output and output noise (the A5 has very low noise and pretty powerful)? Are all amps the same?

To be clear you don't have a $500 DAC, you have a DAC/amp combo that has a bunch of features and is priced as such. You'll see benefit just from a newer DAC and more powerful amp at almost any price point in a desktop configuration as the mid fi tier of products have gotten so good in the last couple of years.
Listen to recommendations, try some out if you can and make an educated decision for yourself instead of seeing something is cheap then discounting it.

Yeah but my DAC/AMP is the same price as the mojo and iDSD BL, so the DAC part is great. I don't need a dac, just an amp. How do I try before I buy? I've never done that.

The most neutral headphone ive heard is the ZMF Auteur. Very nice and you could find it used for 1300-1400$ looks great too. I have the Arya and it does have a lot of treble. dont know if you could call it neutral. I hear the Aurorus headphones 900$ are very neutral and sound great. The Focal Clear 1400$ is also said to be very neutral with good treble and bass extension.

https://www.aurorusaudio.com/Headphones-c34166183

They look nice, but I heard the Auteurs are a bit warm. I'm looking for more reviews for the Clears.

I don't think most would agree that the Focal Utopia are "4x better" than the 800S.

You have also clearly decided some things are better than others, so I guess... Share that ranking? May provide some insight in to the thought process and help in making suggestions.

IDK, but if they're more expensive that means they have better quality sound components? If a $2000 amp is not better than a $100 amp why would it be more expensive?


Sometimes I just wish to get a Hugo with focal utopias and get it over with. One can only dream...

 

[etroze86]

I actually was considering a THX AAA 789, but I was also considering a Fiio A5 just so I don't spend too much. Is the power output the only thing that matters in an amp or are there other factors? For example, a $100 amp outputs more than a $500 but the $500 sounds better in every other regard? The A5's can drive the HD800s and Auras properly, but I feel like it will make my setup sound noisy and like a $100 setup and render my DAC's conversion useless. To put it another way: would connecting a Chord Qutest to a $100 amp make the setup sound like a cheap $100 setup too? How much does the amp affect the sound quality? What's the difference between a cheap and expensive amp? Is the only difference power output and output noise (the A5 has very low noise and pretty powerful)? Are all amps the same?



Yeah but my DAC/AMP is the same price as the mojo and iDSD BL, so the DAC part is great. I don't need a dac, just an amp. How do I try before I buy? I've never done that.

They look nice, but I heard the Auteurs are a bit warm. I'm looking for more reviews for the Clears.


IDK, but if they're more expensive that means they have better quality sound components? If a $2000 amp is not better than a $100 amp why would it be more expensive?


Sometimes I just wish to get a Hugo with focal utopias and get it over with. One can only dream...

You need to try things if you are just going on price. If you want a clean amp to go with your setup gou with a 789 or 887. After that you really have to amps out for the headphones you want.