[forsberg]

Quote:

Originally Posted by moseboy /img/forum/go_quote.gif What exactly are you getting at? Are you just calling the majority of European Westone 3 and IE8 owners liars simply because they like the IE8 more and didn't post pictures as proof?

Well let's just say that I am more than reserved in trusting such comparisons.

The group-think mentality here is off the charts IMO. There are over 1000 posts related to IE8 vs W3, but not a single one posted pics. Is that not a little suspicious to you? One guy from Prague (IIRC) even said that the W3 sound like a pair of cheap ear buds. Really.

Then there's the whole fiasco about IE8s needing 250 hrs or whatever of burn-in, and everybody here goes "yeah yeah let them burn-in! Everything becomes SOOO much better". Right. A bunch of IE8 owners on head-fi apparently found something that Sennheiser totally missed out on or didn't think it was important enough to put on the box/manual. OK.

If (and that is a very big IF) burn-in for IE8 is true, then how many of those IE8 vs W3 voters used a pair of brand-new IE8s vs a fully burnt-in pair? Who knows. Then again, if IE8 owners claim burn-in was so evident, then shouldn't there be any "bran new IE8 vs W3" and "burnt-in IE8 vs W3" threads? You tell me.

It just seems lately that W3 has a love-hate relationship. Everybody who has a pair love 'em. Everybody who doesn't (or claimed to have heard them) hate them. Take that guy jinx for example. In the "Do you have sibilance issues with your W3" thread, he voted Yes. Then someone calls him out on his vote because he previously admitted in another thread that he has never heard W3s himself. His rebuttal was "oh well ALL IEMs have some sort of sibilance, so my vote stands." ...uh, ya. Thanks for voting buddy.

That's why I think all these IE8 vs W3 polling threads are a waste of time.

 

[Wmcmanus]

Quote:

Originally Posted by forsberg /img/forum/go_quote.gif Take that guy jinx for example. In the "Do you have sibilance issues with your W3" thread, he voted Yes. Then someone calls him out on his vote because he previously admitted in another thread that he has never heard W3s himself. His rebuttal was "oh well ALL IEMs have some sort of sibilance, so my vote stands." ...uh, ya. Thanks for voting buddy. That's why I think all these IE8 vs W3 polling threads are a waste of time.

I'm not sure if the IE8 vs W3 threads are a waste of time, but I know that reading anything that jinx has to say about (well, pretty much everything) is a waste of time. He's been caught lying about so many things (at least when it comes to what he has or hasn't heard), it's not even funny. From the day he joined, it's been one lie after another.

So you just have to sift through some of that. If you don't think these kinds of threads/polls are useful then don't pay any attention to them. I think you have made your point very clearly, and I'm sure a lot of other people agree with you in terms of your basic proposition that poll results are difficult to give much (if any credibility) to - for whatever reasons.

But often times, the discussion that surrounding such polls can be interesting, informative and fun. My attitude is that if a thread is fun for some members and none of Head-Fi's simple rules are being violated, then let whomever is enjoying it continue to enjoy it. No sense in blaming "the Europeans" (or any other sub group) for what is mere speculation (at best) on your part concerning what they have or haven't heard.

 

[moseboy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by forsberg /img/forum/go_quote.gif The group-think mentality here is off the charts IMO. There are over 1000 posts related to IE8 vs W3, but not a single one posted pics. Is that not a little suspicious to you?

No, actually it's not.

Everyone knows what they look like, and if you don't, Google them. What reason do they have to post a picture other than to say "HEY! LOOK! I HAVE BOTH! I'M NOT A LIAR!" ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by forsberg /img/forum/go_quote.gif One guy from Prague (IIRC) even said that the W3 sound like a pair of cheap ear buds. Really.

Yeah, I know. And nobody believed him.

Quote:

Originally Posted by forsberg /img/forum/go_quote.gif Then there's the whole fiasco about IE8s needing 250 hrs or whatever of burn-in, and everybody here goes "yeah yeah let them burn-in! Everything becomes SOOO much better". Right.

Then there's the whole fiasco about the Westone 3's sibilance being the fault of the user, and everybody here goes "yeah yeah encode your music at a higher bitrate, get a better source, and find the right tips! Everything becomes SOOO much better". Right.


Sorry, but it's a two-way street. The IE8s are dynamic driver-based earphones and therefore are subject to a burn-in effect. The way the Westone 3 was designed, it seems it's a little bit more picky than other earphones, but if you find the right combination, it seems to be fantastic for most users. Why are you trying to say that people are liars just because the Westone 3 doesn't seem to live up to 100% of the hype for all users?

 

[moseboy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wmcmanus /img/forum/go_quote.gif No sense in blaming "the Europeans" (or any other sub group) for what is mere speculation (at best) on your part concerning what they have or haven't heard.

X2

 

[average_joe]

Quote:

Originally Posted by forsberg /img/forum/go_quote.gif Then there's the whole fiasco about IE8s needing 250 hrs or whatever of burn-in, and everybody here goes "yeah yeah let them burn-in! Everything becomes SOOO much better". Right. A bunch of IE8 owners on head-fi apparently found something that Sennheiser totally missed out on or didn't think it was important enough to put on the box/manual. OK. If (and that is a very big IF) burn-in for IE8 is true, then how many of those IE8 vs W3 voters used a pair of brand-new IE8s vs a fully burnt-in pair? Who knows. Then again, if IE8 owners claim burn-in was so evident, then shouldn't there be any "bran new IE8 vs W3" and "burnt-in IE8 vs W3" threads? You tell me. It just seems lately that W3 has a love-hate relationship. Everybody who has a pair love 'em. Everybody who doesn't (or claimed to have heard them) hate them. Take that guy jinx for example. In the "Do you have sibilance issues with your W3" thread, he voted Yes. Then someone calls him out on his vote because he previously admitted in another thread that he has never heard W3s himself. His rebuttal was "oh well ALL IEMs have some sort of sibilance, so my vote stands." ...uh, ya. Thanks for voting buddy.

Nice rant

And I kinda agree with ya... And now for my rant...

And on the 250 hours of burn in...from what I remember, it was that after anywhere from 10 to 100 hours (depending upon the person) the bass becomes much more controlled and less boomy and the highs start to come out. Also after about 200 hours the mid-bass hump disappears and I remember one poster saying they keep changing slightly up to 250 hours.

Is burn in even real? That is a discuss for another time (or just read old threads to satisfy the debate). I think yes from what my ears have told me (short answer).

Quote:

Originally Posted by forsberg /img/forum/go_quote.gif That's why I think all these IE8 vs W3 polling threads are a waste of time.

And my continued rant...I have some IE8s coming soon...I will probably never own the W3s, even if I won the lottery (well, maybe). From what I have read, the IE8s have a preferred sound signature and W3s are too high maintenance for me (having an amp really brings them to life).

Price also played a big roll...I was going to get the X10, HeadphoneAddict posted a review of the NE-7s, so I got them first, and then I found the IE8s for about the same price as the X10s. The W3s are more than I am willing to pay.

Do I have a point, oh yea...I am gonna let my eyes steer me to a product, and then let my ears tell me what I like. I now have 2 high end IEMs and so far they both have their strengths and there are times I would prefer one over the other...I am sure a lot of people will feel the same way about the W3 and IE8.

But fit, seal, and ear canal, source, genre, volume level, preference, and past listening experience will ultimately determine it for each individual, so in this regard, polls are useless. But they are still fun

 

[forsberg]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wmcmanus /img/forum/go_quote.gif No sense in blaming "the Europeans" (or any other sub group) for what is mere speculation (at best) on your part concerning what they have or haven't heard.

Ya my bad on that. Not picking against Europeans or anything. My opinion stems from the fact that people in Europe get such a big discount on IE8 over markups of W3 may lead to more biased opinions more than if they were priced the same.

 

[forsberg]

Quote:

Originally Posted by moseboy /img/forum/go_quote.gif Why are you trying to say that people are liars just because the Westone 3 doesn't seem to live up to 100% of the hype for all users?

That's not the reasoning behind my assessment. The reason is because of the big price difference in Europe - not because W3 doesn't live up to 100% of the hype.

Besides, I can't say W3 is better than IE8 myself since I never heard the IE8s, so I'm pretty much neutral on the subject. But trying to get a general consensus by reading threads here is pretty much an impossible task.

 

[vedye]

Quote:

Originally Posted by forsberg /img/forum/go_quote.gif Everybody who has a pair love 'em. Everybody who doesn't (or claimed to have heard them) hate them.

Speak for yourself, but better not use the word Everybody. You are creating an assumption here, just like what u complained about ppl just say what they want, without evidence.

 

[soyama]

Quote:

Originally Posted by forsberg /img/forum/go_quote.gif most, not all. But picking the true honest IE8 vs W3 reviews is like finding a diamond in the rough. You have to agree with the trend going on here, as even the OP writes "you solemnly swear that you have heard both". If someone really did in fact had both and reviewed it side by side like so many claimed to have done, why are there no pics? They claimed to have spent all the money in acquiring both, all the time + effort in listening to them, yet no pics of both of them on a table? Think about it.

I quite frankly find this silly.. I have owned the IE8's and I took a picture when I received them, but frankly I found it to be silly and of bad quality so I wouldn't even think about it, I also have pictures of my W3's, but don't see the point in posting it.
If people want to see how they look, they prefer good shots, not my mobileshots with terrible quality.

As too us needing to prove we have both, why? It has not been needed before.
I don't see the point pretending in owning anything I do not have.

I have on occation mentioned my pros/cons on both iems, and I greatly prefer the w3's. Which is probably why I still have those, while IE8 is back at Apple's location in dutchland..
Ay, I'm european, wearing w3's unamped and very satisfied with them.

IE8 did not do it for me, bad isolation, it was probably the form of the iem themselves wich made it bad for me. The sound was good, alot of clairty, but when you have to push them back in after 10 minutes its a no go.

I have small earcanals or something I guess, I use the medium silicone tips with w3, and used the smallest with IE8, and the W3's fit me very well, they even stay while I eat lunch, haha.

Im not a audiophile, nor pretending to hear all the differences others may find in their music, I'd rather enjoy my music than trying to hear if they use a triangle in the back of the recordingstudio.

Good luck deciding OP, my vote from europe goes to westone 3.

 

[Wmcmanus]

Quote:

Originally Posted by average_joe /img/forum/go_quote.gif But fit, seal, and ear canal, source, genre, volume level, preference, and past listening experience will ultimately determine it for each individual, so in this regard, polls are useless. But they are still fun

Well put. Nice thing is, at least they take the room out of it. That would lead to yet an entirely new list of factors...

Quote:

Originally Posted by forsberg /img/forum/go_quote.gif Ya my bad on that. Not picking against Europeans or anything. My opinion stems from the fact that people in Europe get such a big discount on IE8 over markups of W3 may lead to more biased opinions more than if they were priced the same.

Fair enough. Hey, there's no problem in stating your opinion, and then backing it up as best you can when challenged. Sometimes the least popular opinions are actually the most accurate (those stupid, lying sack of sheit Europeans... he he). Nice to know that it's just your jealousy over the price advantage they have on the IE8. It's about time, though! For years, they've been paying far too much for headphones and IEMs relative to North Americans.

 

[jinx20001]

Quote:

Originally Posted by forsberg /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well let's just say that I am more than reserved in trusting such comparisons. The group-think mentality here is off the charts IMO. There are over 1000 posts related to IE8 vs W3, but not a single one posted pics. Is that not a little suspicious to you? One guy from Prague (IIRC) even said that the W3 sound like a pair of cheap ear buds. Really. Then there's the whole fiasco about IE8s needing 250 hrs or whatever of burn-in, and everybody here goes "yeah yeah let them burn-in! Everything becomes SOOO much better". Right. A bunch of IE8 owners on head-fi apparently found something that Sennheiser totally missed out on or didn't think it was important enough to put on the box/manual. OK. If (and that is a very big IF) burn-in for IE8 is true, then how many of those IE8 vs W3 voters used a pair of brand-new IE8s vs a fully burnt-in pair? Who knows. Then again, if IE8 owners claim burn-in was so evident, then shouldn't there be any "bran new IE8 vs W3" and "burnt-in IE8 vs W3" threads? You tell me. It just seems lately that W3 has a love-hate relationship. Everybody who has a pair love 'em. Everybody who doesn't (or claimed to have heard them) hate them. Take that guy jinx for example. In the "Do you have sibilance issues with your W3" thread, he voted Yes. Then someone calls him out on his vote because he previously admitted in another thread that he has never heard W3s himself. His rebuttal was "oh well ALL IEMs have some sort of sibilance, so my vote stands." ...uh, ya. Thanks for voting buddy. That's why I think all these IE8 vs W3 polling threads are a waste of time.

yes my vote stands, because if you own a westone 3 and happy its funny how sibilance is not an issue however everyone else picks the problem up, no i have not heard the westone 3 but i ''know for a fact'' all headphones have sibilance, sibilance is a part of music and it all about wether the headphones produce it loud and clear or quiet and not obvious.

so dont bring me into your stupid arguement because your a westone 3 lover, you say the IE8's most likely dont burn in pmsl, your a joker, anybody that knows dynamic drivers knows that the IE8 have a very high chance of burning in, for a start dynamic drivers do tend to get better with burn in and the IE8 is most likely no exception, its a bigger than average dynamic driver and would very likely need a bit of burn in to loosen and sound thier best.

you think all these IE8 vs westone 3 threads are a waste of time because the IE8 is winning usually and you dont like it. this is plainly obvious and you have made this clear in all the posts you have posted, yes i voted on a poll i maybe shouldnt have but if you care to read my posts i do usually explain my reason. and if you have not heard the IE8 like you clearly state then what are you arguing about?? if other people say the IE8 is better why does this tick you off so much? lol

bit of advice, keep me out of your rants and stop slagging europeans off because we have something cheaper you fool, yeh so what if we have the IE8 cheaper, all the more reason to rate them even better, if they are too much for you over there then tuff luck chump, but we may like them at this price better than westone 3's, if this is too much to swallow then dont bother posting.

 

[Jogiya]

Same "dilemma" here
Can't decide between the two.. I keep going back and forth between the two.. They sound totally different!..
With silicone tips, definitely W3's... IE8's with silicone tips sound thin..
I like the detail W3's deliver (magic of 3 way driver design) + fit & comfort (I forget I'm wearing anything..).. + isolation
IE8's with the big black foam tip (and also double foam tip) sound really good..
And let me tell you, IE8's out of the box sound awful, so prevent bad first impressions, play some music for a few hours before listening to them
I know that because i broke the nozzle of the first pair i got.. and when i heard the new replacement pair, it sounded really bad to me.. so i left them on the side with music on for 4-5 hours and now they sound beautiful..
Now i have to sell one of these.. and can't decide which one to keep!..
Thought about keeping both of them but to me it's waste of money to keep both of them...
One thing for sure, both IEM's are Great!
So, it's not about Europe vs USA here.. It's all about which Sound Signature you prefer..

To Hell with deciding! time to pull the trigger!
Going to "sell" section, maybe..
Will put W3's on sale, maybe..

 

[forsberg]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jinx20001 /img/forum/go_quote.gif you think all these IE8 vs westone 3 threads are a waste of time because the IE8 is winning usually and you dont like it. this is plainly obvious and you have made this clear in all the posts you have posted, yes i voted on a poll i maybe shouldnt have but if you care to read my posts i do usually explain my reason. and if you have not heard the IE8 like you clearly state then what are you arguing about?? if other people say the IE8 is better why does this tick you off so much? lol

What I am arguing about is two things:

Firstly - The big price difference between IE8 vs other high-end IEMs in Europe will cause biased opinions. If you read my posts carefully this is what I was getting at, and not because I hated seeing IE8 win vs W3 as you somehow claim. I've mentioned before that W3, IE8, SE530, TF10 are all in the same league and really should come down to personal preference. I've said this over many times. Again, read my previous posts, they are actually consistent.

Secondly, what I am ticked off about is the lack of credibility on some of these posts because of posters like you. Your opinions on these polls do not hold any value because you do not have any experience in the subject. I have no issues with you in Shure threads or other non-heated topics. But when I see your numerous bogus posts in every Westone thread I read, it gets old real quick. The thread ends up being just a camp A vs camp B flame war, lacking any useful information. Just look at how many arguments you were involved in recently (ex feather, spad, ...), and in the end, it gets nowhere.

 

[DLeeWebb]

I own the Westone 3's. I swapped with a colleague of mine and borrowed his IE8's for three days. I'm no audio expert and cannot describe the sound signature as many around head-fi can. However, in this case that doesn't really matter, because where the Westones fit my ears perfectly (more or less perfectly with different tips...). The IE8's just didn't fit. I mean, I couldn't get anything like a decent seal. I tried and tried and finally gave up thinking that it was me. (maybe I have weird ear canals or something, but I never had this kind of trouble with any other in ear phone...) They just wouldn't fit...

 

[Screamager]

Forsberg, not everyone takes pictures of all the equipment they have owned, worked with or listened to. I bought the W3 and returned them without taking a picture of them, I don't see the point in filling these posts with pictures really.
My IE8s did not get here yet, but if it makes you happy I will send you a picture of them when I do (hopefully tomorrow). But I find this new turn in the discussion to be absurd.