[]eep]

I didn't miss it at all. I've been deep into Chinese audio for 15 years already. I know how it works. Copyright in Chinese means; the right to copy. Also I work with Chinese products every day and we have a good relation with our Chinese importer. So I probably know more than most others about it.

Still what I've seen with the Pegasus is that they take a good, well thought out design, cheapen it with the red pencil, add 'features', increase the price and whip up a media storm while asking everyone to sign an NDA to not mention where they 'bought' their plans. So no reviewer (except Jay Lee) ever dares mention the elephant in the room. And that elephant reeks.

It's not cooperative but parasitic. Maybe I'm wrong but all indicators I've seen point in the same direction. And I'll leave it at that. Enjoy the music.

 

[bouscadie]

maybe it stinks (although it would be better to explain why, what I understood is that Denafrips and Musician were the same manufacturer, but if you know the verifiable information better then that is of interest to everyone)!) but it sings very well ...

 

[Matthew Willims]

The Musician DAC’s are designed by the same OEM as Denafrips plain and simple. I.e. Denafrips did not design their DAC’s though rather paid for a design. The very same reason Denafrips has said nothing. You’re getting worked up about nothing dude.

I can think of a number of similarities in the tech sector such as where Microsoft paid nVidia to design the GPU for the original XBox the nVidia then used used the tech designed for their TNT chip….. Foxconn being the main board manufacturer for Dell, HP and others. This is standard business practice. Nothing more, nothing less. Get over it.

 

[bouscadie]

oh no I'm not getting upset! I'm trying to understand, thanks for the explanations. So if I understand correctly, everything is ok, nothing stinks or everything stinks, it's just China

 

[Matthew Willims]

Standard business practice, and not just China.

From what I’ve seen online there’s enough differences to suggest different factories than Denafrips though the same designers. Better quality circuit boards and parts used though without the massive amount of capacitance Denafrips uses. I.e fewer parts but better quality parts.To me that would make the two brands similar in their sound in some aspects though different in yet others. Which is better I suspect will come down to personal preference.

For Denafrips to use the same level of part would blow their cost out still further. Basically the use a large number of “good enough” caps for filtering, often two transformers etc.

Either way, I’m grateful for the added choice at different price points.

This business practice with one OEM or design teams amongst multiple brands is common in the lower price points that Denafrips and Musician play in. I’ve never seen it in the higher tiers of manufacturers that MSB plays in for example.

 

[Palyodgree]

I didn't miss it at all. I've been deep into Chinese audio for 15 years already. I know how it works. Copyright in Chinese means; the right to copy. Also I work with Chinese products every day and we have a good relation with our Chinese importer. So I probably know more than most others about it.

Still what I've seen with the Pegasus is that they take a good, well thought out design, cheapen it with the red pencil, add 'features', increase the price and whip up a media storm while asking everyone to sign an NDA to not mention where they 'bought' their plans. So no reviewer (except Jay Lee) ever dares mention the elephant in the room. And that elephant reeks.

It's not cooperative but parasitic. Maybe I'm wrong but all indicators I've seen point in the same direction. And I'll leave it at that. Enjoy the music.

Is this a public service notice ? LOL ,..Don’t let this rent too much space in your head ,..

 

[zima500]

I'm just curious about this. This is not the first time this happens. It looks very much like a cover-up. Why is everyone avoiding the elephant in the room?

Musician Audio leans (takes, steals, borrows, 'inspired by') heavily on Denafrips designs. Denafrips is doing all the research and have far better customer service than either 'Musician' or Holo Audio (which are both terrible). So it would be fairer to compare Denafrips Venus II or Pontus II to either of them. As several serious reviewers do. 'The question' is; Denafrips or Holo.
Just the fact that these are all already in their second iteration where the MA are 'new' should say a lot about what the original is.

I don't want to stir up a flame, again (cognitive dissonance wants to be left alone). But this does need to be mentioned.

Just did some reading. Denafrips has not done "all the research" as you say, and have not designed their own dacs. The Aquarius is also very different in hardware and processing, having zero latency issues that plague all Denafrips dacs. Completely different power supply, voltage regulation stages, power filtering stages and more. Sandu goes over it. The actual designer has a contract with both Musician and Denafrips. Musician simply has superior implementation.

 

[Matthew Willims]

The zero latency makes Musician a far better unit for me as it’s used quite a lot for TV and movies also and not just music.

Listening last night and this morning sound appears to have gone up a notch and taken on a quality where I just want to keep listening. It likely has about 364 hours on it at this point. I must note that one area this cannot compete with my previous Abbas is in terms of richness in the midrange. Due to this I've ordered a pair of 0.1uf Audyn True Copper Max caps to replace the silver mica bypasses in the power section of my power amp. Hopefully that will do the trick. If not there are still 4x 0.01uf silver mica bypasses can be replaced on the amp boards. Might use Duelund JDM perhaps.

 

[Matthew Willims]

Yup, changing the silver mica bypasses in the power filtering caps in the Aleph-M has brought added body, tonal richness and naturalness as well ad added depth to the sound stage in my system. I had too many silver micas in there before which tends to kill sound stage. It's now a very nice balance which gets the best from the Aquarius. I'm now absolutely delighted with the results I'm getting

 

[]eep]

The Musician DAC’s are designed by the same OEM as Denafrips plain and simple. I.e. Denafrips did not design their DAC’s though rather paid for a design. The very same reason Denafrips has said nothing. You’re getting worked up about nothing dude.

I can think of a number of similarities in the tech sector such as where Microsoft paid nVidia to design the GPU for the original XBox the nVidia then used used the tech designed for their TNT chip….. Foxconn being the main board manufacturer for Dell, HP and others. This is standard business practice. Nothing more, nothing less. Get over it.

I'm not worked up about anything. 'Dude'. I have moved passed it long ago. Only people deserve to hear and get a chance to make up their own mind. I think it might be you who can't handle stirring up your conscience. If you say it's just 'standard business practice' then you might want to check your moral compass because the worst crimes are committed in (corporate) business. I'm not saying that you are not a good person or anything, it's just I find your reaction very agressive and your arguments flawed.

I know there are certain contracts behind this whole story. But what I see are simple facts. Musician removed certain unique design decisions that work well but cost money. They remove it, claim that their way is better (which is obviously bog standard) and charge considerably more money for it. Maybe for you that is just fine. For me it was an important reason to avoid this brand. And also make others aware of it so they can make an informed decision.

The argument that it sounds good is very subjective. Especially when the 2 are never compared directly. And clearly I haven't compared the 2 rivals either side by side. But I didn't pay €400 extra for just a pretty face.

FYI, I don't buy Microsoft, Intel, Apple, nVidia, Dell, HP either. I like to keep my conscience clear and active. And I don't like excuses like 'everybody' does it, because that still doesn't make it right. The world is s#itty enough as it is. Make love, not 'common business practice'.

 

[Palyodgree]

I'm not worked up about anything. 'Dude'. I have moved passed it long ago. Only people deserve to hear and get a chance to make up their own mind. I think it might be you who can't handle stirring up your conscience. If you say it's just 'standard business practice' then you might want to check your moral compass because the worst crimes are committed in (corporate) business. I'm not saying that you are not a good person or anything, it's just I find your reaction very agressive and your arguments flawed.

I know there are certain contracts behind this whole story. But what I see are simple facts. Musician removed certain unique design decisions that work well but cost money. They remove it, claim that their way is better (which is obviously bog standard) and charge considerably more money for it. Maybe for you that is just fine. For me it was an important reason to avoid this brand. And also make others aware of it so they can make an informed decision.

The argument that it sounds good is very subjective. Especially when the 2 are never compared directly. And clearly I haven't compared the 2 rivals either side by side. But I didn't pay €400 extra for just a pretty face.

FYI, I don't buy Microsoft, Intel, Apple, nVidia, Dell, HP either. I like to keep my conscience clear and active. And I don't like excuses like 'everybody' does it, because that still doesn't make it right. The world is s#itty enough as it is. Make love, not 'common business practice'.

The consumer electronics world can be an upsetting and terrible place for some I guess ,…LOL…Jeep the self confessed Ralph Nater of home entertainment is here to save us ,…. It really is renting a lot of space in your head isn’t it ,…

 

[zima500]

I'm not worked up about anything. 'Dude'. I have moved passed it long ago. Only people deserve to hear and get a chance to make up their own mind. I think it might be you who can't handle stirring up your conscience. If you say it's just 'standard business practice' then you might want to check your moral compass because the worst crimes are committed in (corporate) business. I'm not saying that you are not a good person or anything, it's just I find your reaction very agressive and your arguments flawed.

I know there are certain contracts behind this whole story. But what I see are simple facts. Musician removed certain unique design decisions that work well but cost money. They remove it, claim that their way is better (which is obviously bog standard) and charge considerably more money for it. Maybe for you that is just fine. For me it was an important reason to avoid this brand. And also make others aware of it so they can make an informed decision.

The argument that it sounds good is very subjective. Especially when the 2 are never compared directly. And clearly I haven't compared the 2 rivals either side by side. But I didn't pay €400 extra for just a pretty face.

FYI, I don't buy Microsoft, Intel, Apple, nVidia, Dell, HP either. I like to keep my conscience clear and active. And I don't like excuses like 'everybody' does it, because that still doesn't make it right. The world is s#itty enough as it is. Make love, not 'common business practice'.

This response is blatantly false. You likely have an affiliation with Denafrips. I also see you reported my previous response, which is not a surprise given your ties.

Your statements are the exact opposite of the truth. Already proven and stated in this thread.

Your "views" need to be placed in the appropriate thread. This is off-topic. This is not a thread on the designer contracts with Denafrips and Musician.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/den...se-of-musician-audios-pegasus-r2r-dac.935912/

You have no knowledge of the Aquarius dac and are of no use to anyone here. Your negativity is unwelcomed. We are enjoying good audio products. Having fun. Try it.

 

[zima500]

I'm interested in the SR purple fuse, but requiring 2 for US voltage would be $400. Hesitant on the value.

Been curious about the Monoceros preamp and how it would match up with headphones. Sandu has a review stating "Musician Audio hinted several times that a top-class preamplifier will be coming shortly elevating their Aquarius and Pegasus to higher peaks".

He talks of notably increased bass, slam and sound stage.
"I clearly remember liking the sheer bass slam of the Rockna Wavelight versus the Aquarius, but I’m not sure I would pick the same words with the Monoceros on top of it."

Thinking of going this route instead of the SR purple. Also have a Gustard U18 coming in, like you Matthew. It's <10 watt consumption and smaller form factor to the Audio-gd DI-20he and less than half the cost was appealing enough. This dude's review got me convinced. Seems like a good channel.

 

[kingoftown1]

If we're talking preamps and Denafrips parallels... assuming

Monoceros : unreleased flagship preamp, as
Hestia : Athena

Then the claimed improvement in soundstage and bass slam would be well warranted, based on my experience with both the Hestia and Athena.

 

[zima500]

Hmmm. I actually have the Denafrips Athena preamp, purchased after a review on the Susvara thread for the bass slam, in combination with the Soloist 3xp in power amp mode at the time. There is a very noticeable increase in bass slam, to the point where I am not sure if someone could ever want more slam than the levels provided with the Athena. But, there is also a noticeable decrease in sound stage making it not worth it to me.

On the soloist GT I have, same issue, more slam but less sound stage with Athena. I assumed the decreased sound stage had more to do with synergy with Denafrips products, with Athena performing better with the Terminator II/plus etc. after the reviews I read.

The internals are different on the Monoceros compared to the hestia/athena. Will do more reading.