[TMRaven]

It's hard to quantify the differences with the LCD2 vs LCD3.  20% might be the right number, but the LCD3 is sooo much better than the LCD2 because of minor refinements throughout the entire range.  It made someone like me who thought the LCD2 was very muddy sounding, think the LCD3 was very coherent and just right.
 
If Alpha Prime vs Alpha Dog is the same way, then it's totally worth it.

 

[Beagle]

  I think what he's saying is that measurements are as objective of a way as possible as knowing how a headphone sounds so Tyll's measurements are quite important. Also, Tyll has probably heard more headphones than any other poster in this thread of over 550 pages. So subjective reviews don't get any better than his in terms of comparisons. Everyone knows Tyll's tastes as well (he's quite sensitive to highs and prefers the sound sigs of things like the HE-500) so it's very easy to know where he's coming from compared to other users who have not had the history of reviews as Tyll.
 
Tl;dr: There's a reason that Tyll's reviews have very high authority. It's justified.

 
I've heard two or more headphones that had nearly identical measurements and they sounded quite different from each other, so why lend such credence to measurements? Also, one can listen to 10 billion headphones but if they have no frame of reference, what does it matter?

 

[atsq17]

Does the Alpha Prime have greater bass impact/extension than the Alpha Dogs? 
 
I read the other thread and I think the answer to this seems to be yes. Any additional input would be appreciated. 

 

[hans030390]

Beagle: Did they measure identically in all regards? Frequency response, harmonic distortion, cumulative spectrum (decay, resonance, ringing), impulse response, square wave, isolation, impedance and phase, etc. etc. All of those come together to form what we hear (or are influenced by our equipment chain, such as impedance), and even more aspects beyond that.
 
Just pokin' fun a bit. I get what you're saying. I've heard headphones that measure close enough in most regards, and you have to start making some assumptions based on small things as to why they sound different (slightly rougher THD, a bit more resonance in one area, a small frequency peak difference, etc.). It's not completely understood in all regards, but there is much we can learn from even similar looking measurements. I've touched on this a tiny bit in the measurement sections of some of my recent reviews.
 
Anyway, I'd love to hear Tyll's thoughts on the Prime, and I'm familiar enough with his personal tastes and measurement results that I can generally correlate that out with what I hear. I believe he and I had similar thoughts on the Alpha Dog.

 

[goldenSHK]

   
I've heard two or more headphones that had nearly identical measurements and they sounded quite different from each other, so why lend such credence to measurements? Also, one can listen to 10 billion headphones but if they have no frame of reference, what does it matter?

Read my post more clearly and you'll get both of those questions answered. 
 
"measurements are as objective of a way as possible as knowing how a headphone sounds"
 
We all know that describing sound is as subjective as it can seem to get at times. People even compare this hobby to wine tasting. Weather similar measured headphones sound different or not to you, there doesn't seem to be much more objective of a standard to use. Obviously it's not perfect, but it's the best we have. It doesn't mean not to audition the gear obviously, but for example, if a headphone seems bright to you, while the frequency response chart clearly shows it's dead neutral, you are simply factually wrong about the sound signature. You can obviously claim to enjoy that particular headphone more than other neutral cans, that's your opinion and you're right, but if you call a headphone with flat response "bright"/"bassy" etc etc you are simply factually mistaken. That's why graphs are definitely important for many people. It provides an objective standard to anchor your opinions to. I'm not trying to start this age old objective vs. subjective debate here in this thread, but "why lend such credence to measurements" can easily be answered: it's the best we've got. 
 
What do you mean by no frame of reference? Clearly Tyll has more frames of reference than almost anyone else in the hobby since he has a great deal of headphone listening experiences to draw from compared to the average Joe. We already know that he's not crazy in the head since a lot of his reviews are spot on and reliable so why would anyone think he has "no frame of reference?" 

 

[wahsmoh]

If the AD cannot be upgraded to Prime then I think I may have my sights set on the Fostex TH500RP. The ultimate successor to the flagship T50 from the 80's. Plus I can almost guarantee there will be a plethora of modders that will jump onboard the TH500RP to try and squeeze every last drop of performance.
 
EDIT: On second thought, Dan has said that the T50RP driver (same one they plan on using in the TH500RP) works better in a closed headphone vs. open headphone. Very interesting, I will wait on reviews and see if Fostex can make this open headphone a flagship product.

 

[thune]

So. Who is going to Vick their Alpha Dog Prime?  "extensively modified ...T50rp driver" claims invite further investigation, and reverse engineering makes us all smarter and wiser and furthers the art.
 
In the meantime, Dan certainly has measurements that show any fundamental response differences with the Alpha Dog if he wishes to share them. But like with reviews, it's all part of the marketing plan. 

 

[Wildcatsare1]

^I beg to differ on the your contention that if a listener finds a flat headphone shrill or bassy, they are "factually" wrong. Measurements are just part of the evaluation process. You open on the right track comparing "listening" to wine tasting, were you go a bit far is using graphs to determine subjective listening "wrong". An example was found during the "distortion wars" of the '70's and '80's, before my time of course. The Japanese solid state amps at the time measured phenomenally well, I'll drop one name, I think Sansui is gone. Their amps had truly the best "objective measurements" of all time, but were/are cold, lifeless, shrill, chase people from the room awful. I believe, please anybody that knows one way or the other feel free and step in, that equipment designers "tune" their products to match the SQ they prefer or believe will be a better seller. Very much like a chef, brewmaster, etc., a "recipe" of sonic signatures, distortion, and so on to create the flavor, house sound, desired sound. I would love for those with greater knowledge in design, engineering, DYI, to jump in here and correct my assumptions.

 

[wahsmoh]

  This reminds me of the "color discussion" when Alpha launched.   Those who recall know that after months of comments and discussion we came out with black, which now accounts for about 7-8% of Alpha sales.  
 
While I hear the desire for more "differentiation" our options are very limited because I consider loyalty to our current customers, and our ability to upgrade (I am increasingly confident this will be ok) is a very big deal to me, as a very high percentage of owners have used this service, and it's really unique.
 
Different colors, branding on the cups, all these things you guys are talking about would make upgrades harder, more costly, more wasteful, and less likely to be relevant.  I am deeply committed to upgrades on our T50RP headphones so long as we can, and it is a *major* consideration. I am not going to pursue visual differentiation that interferes with our ability to offer a service that our customers clearly value, and that is unique in the industry.
 
EDIT: It's VERY hard to make the right trade offs.  We do the best we can.  But to me, loyalty to our existing customers, to whom we owe EVERYTHING, is more important than bling.

I thought the black AD would have sold more than that %. It is the more beautiful Alpha Dog after all :]

 

[LoveKnight]

Turned out red is still the best choice for these premium dogs lol. I need to stop posting here until there are a few reviews and comparisons. Hope there will be an upgradable option but it will be announced until December. Now it is still too soon for me to trigger the Alpha Prime because I need to spend more money on other things like life activities but this upcoming CanJam must be exciting. Hope for Jude's opinion about this Alpha Prime too. This topic is somehow becoming hotter than ever

.

 

[Lohb]

  If the AD cannot be upgraded to Prime then I think I may have my sights set on the Fostex TH500RP. The ultimate successor to the flagship T50 from the 80's. Plus I can almost guarantee there will be a plethora of modders that will jump onboard the TH500RP to try and squeeze every last drop of performance.
 
EDIT: On second thought, Dan has said that the T50RP driver (same one they plan on using in the TH500RP) works better in a closed headphone vs. open headphone. Very interesting, I will wait on reviews and see if Fostex can make this open headphone a flagship product.

Wahsmoh, sorry if I'm wrong, but I thought it was a bigger dimensions/similar shape from the ground up planar that is in the TH500RP and it was described as overly-warm from proto reviews ?
 
Anyone using the Geek Out 1000 with A-Dog ?

 

[mrspeakers]

I am not sure if the th500 driver is the same or not. I thought it was, but I can't recall where I got the idea. I've not peeked.

 

[AnakChan]

I am not sure if the th500 driver is the same or not. I thought it was, but I can't recall where I got the idea. I've not peeked.

 
It's apparently slightly modified from the original T50RP. I guess Fostex didn't go all out to make a completely new one but just tweaked on the old.

 

[XERO1]

        Take My Money, Dan !!!!!!

 

[swspiers]

  Problem with Tyll is you won't get a review of the headphone unless he likes it.

This

  Using deductive reasoning we should be able to conclude why there's no review then.

I respect Tyll, but over the years I rarely agree with him- on priorities, preferences, or conclusions.  But he sure makes up for it in consistency and honesty.
 
It really irked me when he decided that the AD is expensive for what it offered.  But, eh, his mileage varied...