[Napilopez]

Hey guys, so I've been thinking a bit, and I think it's time I start moving up the audiophile chain of monetary doom. I've stuck to budget-fi long enough. As much as I love it, I think it's time I begin to really notice upgraded sound.
 
I am setting a pretty strict final price limit of $300 for the raw headphone price, and $100 more for potential tax/shipping/amps, for $400 total. If enough people think it's REALLY worth it for me to notice a large difference after some consideration, I might expand up to an absolute $500 max in total costs. I'd love to keep costs under $400 for now though. Under 300 would be lovely. Poor college kid here, spending his summer money on audio gear.

Now, I know that as I move up in price range, the importance of an amp seems to increase almost proportionally. Ideally I'd like something driveable from a JDS cmoy I intend to buy, but that seems unlikely for many of my options. Maybe an Airhead/Bithead? I would love it if it were decently driveable out of a portable amp $150 or less.

Properties I'm looking for:
-To give you a sense of where I'm coming from, the Samson SR850 is the best headphone I have, and I consider it to be better than the M50, Denon D1100 and Denon D1001. So I'd like something noticeably better.
-Well-roundedness: I listen to pretty much every genre.
-Large soundstage, decent imaging. Don't mind sounding too distant. None of my HPs so far have had large stages
-Isn't veiled in the highs, and has impactful extending bass. I don't want to feel a part of the frequency is missing. For example, I don't want to listen to rock fine and then listen to dubstep and not be able to make out the sub-bass at all. I'm not averse to aggressiveness, would like good texture. In terms of bass quantity, a bit less than than the HD25 II or M50 would be fine, as long as I can hear below 20hz clearly and get realistic impact. Sub-bass is as important or more important as mid-bass, and I dislike excessive midbass. I don't mind mids recession, but they should be of good quality.

Am not picky about comfort, size, or open/closedness.

All of the above qualities are of course subject to compromise. I understand sacrifices in some areas of sound are often necessary for others.

Some options I've considered:
-K702 is my top choice, but the amping requirements seem to be so huge that I'd end up in the 500+ range if I want to get good sound with decent bass amount.
-Denon D2000.
-Fischer FA-011: This sounds very interesting for the price, but I've heard the soundstage is only average.
-Sennheiser HD 558 modded, or 598.

All of these have very different sound signatures, but I don't mind that. There are few sound signatures I don't like. I just want to feel like every part of the music is there, even if in different amounts.
 
Ideally I'd want something like a bassier K702. I think I may go with the k702 and a Total Airhead/Bithead because of what seems like great scalability of the k702, which still seems to be compared to HPs in the 1000+ range... What do you think?

 

[Coop]

I recently bought a set of K702s, love them to death and they do quite well when hooked up to the Fiio E9 (with or without the E7 as DAC). Ofcourse the E9 isn't very portable. Then again, I didn't exactly buy the K702 for their portability either.

The Fiio E9 is not very expensive, so if you look around for good deals a bit, you'll probably be able to get the K702 (saw it as low as $266 on Amazon) + E9 for less than $400  

 

[Napilopez]

Thanks for the reply! I guess I don't care thaattt much about portability, but it would be convenient since I intend on buying a portable amp anyway.

 

[Napilopez]

So I'm now thinking I will go the smart route and just use the K701 at home if I buy it. I assume that desktop amps are generally better than portable ones per dollar, so I'm wondering if there is anything decent that will power it for $150 or less? Preferably on the warmer end, to add bass heft. I've been doing my research for quite a few hours, but I'm having trouble.

 

[menchi]

Honestly, in my opinion, if you don't really have the means to give the K702 what it needs in terms of amping, then you shouldn't really bother getting one. They are deceivingly cheap in that regard.
 
Sure, it'll work with most things, but why limit one's spending to only end up getting 60-80% of the potential of the headphone? And the problem is that most people don't realize this, because the AKGs scale very well the higher you go... an amped K70x will sounds significantly better than a non-amped headphone, and once people perceive this difference they tend to become complacent without realizing that there is also another level of difference between an amped K70x and a well-amped one, and if you want to pull out the full potential of these headphones then your budget has to match accordingly.
 
From what you've said about your preferences, and based on the budget you are suggesting, the Denon may be the better choice.

 

[Napilopez]

Honestly, in my opinion, if you don't really have the means to give the K702 what it needs in terms of amping, then you shouldn't really bother getting one. They are deceivingly cheap in that regard.
 
Sure, it'll work with most things, but why limit one's spending to only end up getting 60-80% of the potential of the headphone? And the problem is that most people don't realize this, because the AKGs scale very well the higher you go... an amped K70x will sounds significantly better than a non-amped headphone, and once people perceive this difference they tend to become complacent without realizing that there is also another level of difference between an amped K70x and a well-amped one, and if you want to pull out the full potential of these headphones then your budget has to match accordingly.
 
From what you've said about your preferences, and based on the budget you are suggesting, the Denon may be the better choice.

I appreciate the input, and have previously thought much about what you are saying. The thing is, that's precisely what attracts me about the AKGs: scalability. I know that over the next months and years, my source gear will consistently improve, given how invested into this hobby I've become, and that I've been working more with mixing music and such in general. I'm interested in the long run value of these headphones, which from what I've read about how well they scale, seems to be significant. I constantly hear the K70X compared to much more expensive products. I don't get the same sense of scalability from the other products I've mentioned. I'm still heavily considering my other options though.

Even still, i feel like a K701/2 trough a cheap amp will sound significantly better than what I already have, given that I don't care thatt much about overall sound color.

I also have a bit of a special situation I've recently realized. I might be able to build my own amplifier for almost no money as I work in the physics department of my university, and they seem to have almost all the parts I need for many amplifier schematics I've looked at. Tons of gear old and new, which I discovered after finding a drawer full of vacuum tubes. Since my boss was okay with me using their stock(and he'd help me out), it sounds like something I'll end up doing eventually. I just don't think I can invest the time at the moment, but perhaps I can towards the end of summer.

Thanks for the input!

 

[Kagelou]

I am also planning to get the K701, but after Summer because I need to make some money first xD
This also works out because Fiio is developing a new E15 Desktop amp, and I want to see how that synergizes with the K701 since the E7+E9 combo worked really well.
You could buy the E7+E9 from the FS forum or buy it new from micca
 

 

[sphinxvc]

I would look at the HD600 or 650 used plus an Audio-GD NFB-12 if you still plan to go commercial, nothing better for a sub-$500 rig, in my opinion.  
 
If you can build your own transformer-coupled tube amp then the K701s are definitely worth considering, although I'm not sure how you'll make it all work in $500 budget.  If it's solid state or not transformer-coupled I wouldn't bother with the K701.
 
Good luck, and be wary of people who recommend gear they've never heard.

 

[menchi]

Quote:

Even still, i feel like a K701/2 trough a cheap amp will sound significantly better than what I already have, given that I don't care thatt much about overall sound color.

That is a misconception. The K70x's sound very underwhelming compared to almost anything else in the same price range (sometimes even in comparison to headphones in a lower price range) when not properly amped. If you plan on getting them for scalability, then do consider the time frame of the process. There's no meaning in wearing the life of the AKGs in subpar conditions and only experiencing their true power in the end after your ears have become conditioned to a weaker sound signature, it defeats the purpose of the headphones. You'd have a much better time buying headphones that can suit your needs now... ones that you can bring to their full potential at this moment in time, allowing you to enjoying your time listening with them, and then going for the AKG in the future when you have the resources necessary to give it what it deserves.

 

[Mad Max]

Consider  a used HD6x0 or AD900 instead of K702.
Then NFB-12 or used Sparrow or FUN.

 

[utkusu]

How about Fischer FA-003s? They are not half bad even using a Fuze.

 

[Napilopez]

That is a misconception. The K70x's sound very underwhelming compared to almost anything else in the same price range (sometimes even in comparison to headphones in a lower price range) when not properly amped. If you plan on getting them for scalability, then do consider the time frame of the process. There's no meaning in wearing the life of the AKGs in subpar conditions and only experiencing their true power in the end after your ears have become conditioned to a weaker sound signature, it defeats the purpose of the headphones. You'd have a much better time buying headphones that can suit your needs now... ones that you can bring to their full potential at this moment in time, allowing you to enjoying your time listening with them, and then going for the AKG in the future when you have the resources necessary to give it what it deserves.

I understand what your saying, but I have tried the K701s out of a cheap amp and though they sounded a lot better than what I had at the time, which is what prompted me to research them. There seem to be a lot of people pretty happy with them even with a cheaper amp than what I'd buy. There's also the issue that I might be building my own amp soon and almost definitely by the end of the year, and think I'd end up buying them at some point in my journey anyway, so I'm curious as to that sound. Also, it's not as if I'm not happy with what I have, I'm just constantly looking to improve within economic reason. One one hand I don't feel like buying something I think is more likely to be a temporary solution, especially since I need to buy an amp anyway, as most of my other options seem like they need to be amped as well, just not as nitpickily as the K70X.

BUTTTTT, again I'm sure most of what you say is true, I am still strongly considering others! The Denon D2000s and HD598s are high up on the list. Considering the Beyer DT880 and DT990 too.

I would look at the HD600 or 650 used plus an Audio-GD NFB-12 if you still plan to go commercial, nothing better for a sub-$500 rig, in my opinion.  
 
If you can build your own transformer-coupled tube amp then the K701s are definitely worth considering, although I'm not sure how you'll make it all work in $500 budget.  If it's solid state or not transformer-coupled I wouldn't bother with the K701.
 
Good luck, and be wary of people who recommend gear they've never heard.

Thanks! only thing is I haven't been a fan of what I've heard as being the "Sennheiser" sound. I wish I could've auditioned them with a better source in a quiet setting to be sure, but it does seem like the treble on these is a bit less than I'd like. The Denon D2000 might suffer similarly FWIR. But I guess I still need more research. The reason the HD598/Modded HD558 are on my list is because they are supposed to be a bit more trebly forward than either of the 600 series.

As for building the amplifier for cheap, my physics office has most of the things I seem to need. Tubes, circuitboards, capacitors, resistors, inductors, soldering materials, transformers, etc all of which I'm being allowed to use for free. In terms of the circuitboard it seems I have almost everything I need. Casing, nobs, and audio jacks seem to be the only major things I'm missing.

Also, I've posted in the amplifier forum and see what they think in terms of buying an amp and/or building my own. Thanks!

 

[revolink24]

Another option to consider is IEMs. If you can stretch your budget to $500 plus the cost of impressions, you're in custom IEM territory (JH5s spring to mind), and they sound darn good unamped.

 

[Napilopez]

So I've pretty much figured out my K702 amp situation for the time being should I go with those. Likely starting off with a cheap pre-built tube, the Indeed G2, and then building a Millet Starving Student, and or an AMB Mini^3 for portability. Another option I'm considering is the Maverick TubeAudio D1 as a DAC/amp combo, since I'd like a DAC that can actually play 24bit/96khz.

Since I'm pretty happy with what I have tentatively planned, could I get more info on alternatives? I've been looking more at the DT880 and DT990 as alternatives, likely the former as the latter seems to be too big on midbass for my preference. I don't think I'll go for the FA-011 simply because of the huge wait times. The HD598 is still tempting, but im worried by the sense I've gotten that it has a great presentation, but simply lags behind the others when it comes to resolution and scalability.

Another option to consider is IEMs. If you can stretch your budget to $500 plus the cost of impressions, you're in custom IEM territory (JH5s spring to mind), and they sound darn good unamped.

Thanks Revo, but that's pushing it a bit too far on a headphone alone, I think, since I do want an amp and am still trying to save money.

Not that I don't appreciate IEMs though; I still think they can compete fairly with full-size headphones but many people don't give them enough of a shot. I'm just quite sure my Panasonic HJE900s will have me satisfied for quite a while. They might be the one purchase I do appreciate more than the Samson's, I just haven't heard them long in a while since I need a new cable for them; my current one is pretty much dead and takes much fiddling to produce any sound. I'm not sure I'll venture into IEMs until I have enough money for a JH16, although some of those 1964 IEMs customs sound interesting.

 

[dcpoor]

skip both and build a CTH?