rasmushorn
Headphoneus Supremus
I hope you find a good solution. I can imagine that production in Europe will have its own advantages as well. Patience for us is hard but I think we will survive
Meier Audio Quickstep (also Stepdance and 2Stepdance) Discussion and Impressions Thread
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I hope you find a good solution. I can imagine that production in Europe will have its own advantages as well. Patience for us is hard but I think we will survive
Jan Meier
King Corda
Member of the Trade: Meier Audio
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Dear headfriends,
"another project= usb-chargeable version of Quickstep?"
No, it's the development of a new technique to strongly reduce IMD (intermodulation distortion) in amplification using opamps. I've build myself a headamp that allows to switch between conventional operation and this new technique. The sonic results are really promising.
"I can imagine that production in Europe will have its own advantages as well."
Let's hope.
The strong dollar however will certainly make decent HiFi equipment more expensive over the next few years. Over here in Europe HiFiMan already has increased their prices. Next week Sennheiser will raise their prices on the HD800 too!
Cheers
Jan
"another project= usb-chargeable version of Quickstep?"
No, it's the development of a new technique to strongly reduce IMD (intermodulation distortion) in amplification using opamps. I've build myself a headamp that allows to switch between conventional operation and this new technique. The sonic results are really promising.
"I can imagine that production in Europe will have its own advantages as well."
Let's hope.
The strong dollar however will certainly make decent HiFi equipment more expensive over the next few years. Over here in Europe HiFiMan already has increased their prices. Next week Sennheiser will raise their prices on the HD800 too!
Cheers
Jan
pietcux
Headphoneus Supremus
Jan,
that sounds even more promising to me. Also could you comment on some people saying that opamps are inferior to conventional discrete amp designs. For me as the end customer it is always hard to discriminate between right and wrong regarding such fundamental technologies.
But why would the HD 800 get more expensive inside the EU, when it is made in Wedemark, Gemany. Also the headphones like the HD600/650/700 from Irland. The product lines that are made in China, that makes sense to me.
Cheers
Peter
that sounds even more promising to me. Also could you comment on some people saying that opamps are inferior to conventional discrete amp designs. For me as the end customer it is always hard to discriminate between right and wrong regarding such fundamental technologies.
But why would the HD 800 get more expensive inside the EU, when it is made in Wedemark, Gemany. Also the headphones like the HD600/650/700 from Irland. The product lines that are made in China, that makes sense to me.
Cheers
Peter
Argo Duck
Formerly known as "AiDee"
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+1. An assault on IMD sounds very exciting. It is too often forgotten (or harder to measure, perhaps?).
tsn141
Member of the Trade: Tahsin Sevgel Audio Devices
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Dear headfriends,
"another project= usb-chargeable version of Quickstep?"
No, it's the development of a new technique to strongly reduce IMD (intermodulation distortion) in amplification using opamps. I've build myself a headamp that allows to switch between conventional operation and this new technique. The sonic results are really promising.
"I can imagine that production in Europe will have its own advantages as well."
Let's hope.
The strong dollar however will certainly make decent HiFi equipment more expensive over the next few years. Over here in Europe HiFiMan already has increased their prices. Next week Sennheiser will raise their prices on the HD800 too!
Cheers
Jan
I owned Quickstep, very nice amp IMO, but the battery usage is high for a portable system, playing time is too low. Have you a plan for that problem.
Jan Meier
King Corda
Member of the Trade: Meier Audio
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Dear headfriends,
> that sounds even more promising to me.
Yep, it does sound good!
> Also could you comment on some people saying that opamps are inferior to conventional discrete amp designs.
In the early days of opamps these were made to provide a cheap and easy solution for relatively "crude" applications. At those times discrete designs may well have had their advantages.
Since then, opamps have developed into very precise "instruments" and have a very high performance level. I've never made a personal comparison between discrete designs and opamps designs but I've found opamps to perform quite well. And the big advantage is, that sound signature can be optimized to personal taste by exchange of the opamp.
Did you know that the opamps in the CLASSIC and in the DACCORD are socketed?!!
> For me as the end customer it is always hard to discriminate between right and wrong regarding such fundamental technologies.
It's not about right or wrong. It's about personal taste.
> An assault on IMD sounds very exciting. It is too often forgotten (or harder to measure, perhaps?).
IMD by nature is way more obtrusive than harmonic distortion because the frequencies involved are non-harmonic to the musical contents. And normally the total amount of IMD is larger than harmonic distortion too!!
There are some "simple" measurements of IMD but they do require high-precision measurement equipment. That currently is my problem. The IMD of my measurement equipment is higher than that of my amp/DAC after modification.!
> But why would the HD 800 get more expensive inside the EU, when it is made in Wedemark, Gemany.
Raw materials may be produced outside Europe.
> I owned Quickstep, very nice amp IMO, but the battery usage is high for a portable system, playing time is too low. Have you a plan for that problem.
The high supply voltages of the QUICKSTEP (+/- 9V) do provide high driving capacities and help to improve sound quality. However, they also increase powerconsumption. It's the price that is to be paid.
However, inside the amp there is a shunt that can be repositioned. The supply voltages inside then are reduced to +/- 4.5V and battery life time is nearly doubled. It is described in the user-manual.
Cheers
Jan
> that sounds even more promising to me.
Yep, it does sound good!
> Also could you comment on some people saying that opamps are inferior to conventional discrete amp designs.
In the early days of opamps these were made to provide a cheap and easy solution for relatively "crude" applications. At those times discrete designs may well have had their advantages.
Since then, opamps have developed into very precise "instruments" and have a very high performance level. I've never made a personal comparison between discrete designs and opamps designs but I've found opamps to perform quite well. And the big advantage is, that sound signature can be optimized to personal taste by exchange of the opamp.
Did you know that the opamps in the CLASSIC and in the DACCORD are socketed?!!
> For me as the end customer it is always hard to discriminate between right and wrong regarding such fundamental technologies.
It's not about right or wrong. It's about personal taste.
> An assault on IMD sounds very exciting. It is too often forgotten (or harder to measure, perhaps?).
IMD by nature is way more obtrusive than harmonic distortion because the frequencies involved are non-harmonic to the musical contents. And normally the total amount of IMD is larger than harmonic distortion too!!
There are some "simple" measurements of IMD but they do require high-precision measurement equipment. That currently is my problem. The IMD of my measurement equipment is higher than that of my amp/DAC after modification.!
> But why would the HD 800 get more expensive inside the EU, when it is made in Wedemark, Gemany.
Raw materials may be produced outside Europe.
> I owned Quickstep, very nice amp IMO, but the battery usage is high for a portable system, playing time is too low. Have you a plan for that problem.
The high supply voltages of the QUICKSTEP (+/- 9V) do provide high driving capacities and help to improve sound quality. However, they also increase powerconsumption. It's the price that is to be paid.
However, inside the amp there is a shunt that can be repositioned. The supply voltages inside then are reduced to +/- 4.5V and battery life time is nearly doubled. It is described in the user-manual.
Cheers
Jan
tsn141
Member of the Trade: Tahsin Sevgel Audio Devices
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Dear headfriends,
> that sounds even more promising to me.
Yep, it does sound good!
> Also could you comment on some people saying that opamps are inferior to conventional discrete amp designs.
In the early days of opamps these were made to provide a cheap and easy solution for relatively "crude" applications. At those times discrete designs may well have had their advantages.
Since then, opamps have developed into very precise "instruments" and have a very high performance level. I've never made a personal comparison between discrete designs and opamps designs but I've found opamps to perform quite well. And the big advantage is, that sound signature can be optimized to personal taste by exchange of the opamp.
Did you know that the opamps in the CLASSIC and in the DACCORD are socketed?!!
> For me as the end customer it is always hard to discriminate between right and wrong regarding such fundamental technologies.
It's not about right or wrong. It's about personal taste.
> An assault on IMD sounds very exciting. It is too often forgotten (or harder to measure, perhaps?).
IMD by nature is way more obtrusive than harmonic distortion because the frequencies involved are non-harmonic to the musical contents. And normally the total amount of IMD is larger than harmonic distortion too!!
There are some "simple" measurements of IMD but they do require high-precision measurement equipment. That currently is my problem. The IMD of my measurement equipment is higher than that of my amp/DAC after modification.!
> But why would the HD 800 get more expensive inside the EU, when it is made in Wedemark, Gemany.
Raw materials may be produced outside Europe.
> I owned Quickstep, very nice amp IMO, but the battery usage is high for a portable system, playing time is too low. Have you a plan for that problem.
The high supply voltages of the QUICKSTEP (+/- 9V) do provide high driving capacities and help to improve sound quality. However, they also increase powerconsumption. It's the price that is to be paid.
However, inside the amp there is a shunt that can be repositioned. The supply voltages inside then are reduced to +/- 4.5V and battery life time is nearly doubled. It is described in the user-manual.
Cheers
Jan
Thank you for answer.
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Hi Jan,
Thanks for all of the information you're sharing about your current project!
Regarding distortion in amps, there seems to be three schools of thought out there regarding the use of global and local negative feedback.
One says the benefits of using negative feedback are measurable and therefore valid. Most amp designers seem to fall into this category.
Another school of thought says that zero-feedback designs have measurably greater distortion, but they sound better - especially in the low-level signals that reside just above the noise floor, where it is argued that distortions can be created, ironically, from the use of negative feedback - Nelson Pass and Cees Ruijtenberg are among this minority.
Lastly, I can't remember who it was, but I read a white paper where a designer argued that the problems caused by use of negative feedback can be eliminated (made completely inaudible) by using a lot more negative feedback than most designers are using - enough to push the artifacts of negative feedback 90 dB or more below the peak signals.
Do you have any opinion or words of wisdom on this subject - and would you mind sharing how your designs make use of negative feedback?
Thanks!
Mike
Thanks for all of the information you're sharing about your current project!
Regarding distortion in amps, there seems to be three schools of thought out there regarding the use of global and local negative feedback.
One says the benefits of using negative feedback are measurable and therefore valid. Most amp designers seem to fall into this category.
Another school of thought says that zero-feedback designs have measurably greater distortion, but they sound better - especially in the low-level signals that reside just above the noise floor, where it is argued that distortions can be created, ironically, from the use of negative feedback - Nelson Pass and Cees Ruijtenberg are among this minority.
Lastly, I can't remember who it was, but I read a white paper where a designer argued that the problems caused by use of negative feedback can be eliminated (made completely inaudible) by using a lot more negative feedback than most designers are using - enough to push the artifacts of negative feedback 90 dB or more below the peak signals.
Do you have any opinion or words of wisdom on this subject - and would you mind sharing how your designs make use of negative feedback?
Thanks!
Mike
Armaegis
Modern Modder Man of Manitoba
HTML... uphill, both ways!
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In a very broad and overgeneralized sense, negative feedback will reduce overall distortion but likely introduce higher order distortion(s). Then there's also the issue of what kind of distortion you're trying to measure. Harmonic distortinon is easy-ish, non-linear intermodular stuff not so much. Feedback can be good at reducing the former, but maybe not so much at the latter. Maybe. Armchair designer here, don't pay any attention to the man behind the curtain.
Jan Meier
King Corda
Member of the Trade: Meier Audio
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Dear headfriends,
" In a very broad and overgeneralized sense, negative feedback will reduce overall distortion but likely introduce higher order distortion(s)."
No, it won't. It's just that low order distortion is reduced more so the balance of the amount of low order to high order distortion shifts.
" Then there's also the issue of what kind of distortion you're trying to measure. Harmonic distortinon is easy-ish, non-linear intermodular stuff not so much."
It normally is the same. Harmonic distortion and intermodulation distortion both originate from the non-linear transfer function of the amp. But it's true, harmonic distortion is more easy to measure and for most people more easy to understand.
" Feedback can be good at reducing the former, but maybe not so much at the latter."
Feedback improves linearity and thereby reduces both harmonic and intermodulation distortion.
Some articles:
http://www.edn.com/design/consumer/4418798/1/Negative-feedback-in-audio-amplifiers--Why-there-is-no-such-thing-as-too-much
http://sound.westhost.com/articles/distortion+fb.htm
It should be noted though, that some people may like certain kinds of distortion. Intermodulation distortion is what gives an electric guitar it's specific sound by using tube amplifiers that are trimmed to be strongly non-linear. If you like to give all sound this specific attack then slight amounts of IMD might be favourable. Personally I prefer to hear this attack only, if it's in the recording.
That said, when listening for the very first time to my test-amplifier with extremely low IMD there was an initial feeling of missing something. Sound became extremely smooth and easy flowing. Standard CORDA amplifiers are already comparatively smooth and easy on the ear but do produce some IMD (like any other amplifier) and by listening for so many years to such amplifiers makes this sound to a "reference". It took me a while to realise that the test amp was actually the better sounding one. Now, having adjusted my ears, there is no way back. I use the test-amp for my personal listening.
Please be noted that the new technique will not find it's application into new products soon. I still have to figure out a lot of the technical and theoretical aspects and quantify the results. If all goes as hoped for, then I may have to visit the patent-office or try to market/sell my ideas elsewhere.
Cheers
Jan
" In a very broad and overgeneralized sense, negative feedback will reduce overall distortion but likely introduce higher order distortion(s)."
No, it won't. It's just that low order distortion is reduced more so the balance of the amount of low order to high order distortion shifts.
" Then there's also the issue of what kind of distortion you're trying to measure. Harmonic distortinon is easy-ish, non-linear intermodular stuff not so much."
It normally is the same. Harmonic distortion and intermodulation distortion both originate from the non-linear transfer function of the amp. But it's true, harmonic distortion is more easy to measure and for most people more easy to understand.
" Feedback can be good at reducing the former, but maybe not so much at the latter."
Feedback improves linearity and thereby reduces both harmonic and intermodulation distortion.
Some articles:
http://www.edn.com/design/consumer/4418798/1/Negative-feedback-in-audio-amplifiers--Why-there-is-no-such-thing-as-too-much
http://sound.westhost.com/articles/distortion+fb.htm
It should be noted though, that some people may like certain kinds of distortion. Intermodulation distortion is what gives an electric guitar it's specific sound by using tube amplifiers that are trimmed to be strongly non-linear. If you like to give all sound this specific attack then slight amounts of IMD might be favourable. Personally I prefer to hear this attack only, if it's in the recording.
That said, when listening for the very first time to my test-amplifier with extremely low IMD there was an initial feeling of missing something. Sound became extremely smooth and easy flowing. Standard CORDA amplifiers are already comparatively smooth and easy on the ear but do produce some IMD (like any other amplifier) and by listening for so many years to such amplifiers makes this sound to a "reference". It took me a while to realise that the test amp was actually the better sounding one. Now, having adjusted my ears, there is no way back. I use the test-amp for my personal listening.
Please be noted that the new technique will not find it's application into new products soon. I still have to figure out a lot of the technical and theoretical aspects and quantify the results. If all goes as hoped for, then I may have to visit the patent-office or try to market/sell my ideas elsewhere.
Cheers
Jan
pietcux
Headphoneus Supremus
Take your time Jan. I am far behind anyways. I have a Corda Opera incoming right now.
raizetcity
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Hi guys ,i d like to know if i use the 16v output of my xt power 1600 ,i can damage my corda 2stepdance,months ago my energyzer 8000 just quit me so ,is it a way i can have the sound with my big brik xt power without issues ? Thanks guys
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Your impressions, Jan, reflect very much my impression of the sound of Bakoon amps, which are using a proprietary current based amplification with extremely low IMD. Many people, including myself, thinks those amplifiers sound wonderful, incredibly smooth, detailed and transparent, but others cannot adjust to their sound and find them lacking or characterless/ bland.
Jan Meier
King Corda
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Dear Zenpunkt,
" Your impressions, Jan, reflect very much my impression of the sound of Bakoon amps, which are using a proprietary current based amplification with extremely low IMD."
Current amps do have certain advantages, but only with magneplanars. These phones have an impedance that is near ohmic and independent of frequency.
With dynamic headphones or IEMs, having impedances that vary strongly with impedance, current driving will strongly effect sonic balance (normally in a negative way).
Hi Raizetcity,
" ,i d like to know if i use the 16v output of my xt power 1600 ,i can damage my corda 2stepdance"
Depends on the properties of the power supply. Is the output regulated at 16V? Batterypacks often have voltages higher than specification when fully charged and yes, that can do damage! 16V is not a problem but a few Volts more may well.
Cheers
Jan
" Your impressions, Jan, reflect very much my impression of the sound of Bakoon amps, which are using a proprietary current based amplification with extremely low IMD."
Current amps do have certain advantages, but only with magneplanars. These phones have an impedance that is near ohmic and independent of frequency.
With dynamic headphones or IEMs, having impedances that vary strongly with impedance, current driving will strongly effect sonic balance (normally in a negative way).
Hi Raizetcity,
" ,i d like to know if i use the 16v output of my xt power 1600 ,i can damage my corda 2stepdance"
Depends on the properties of the power supply. Is the output regulated at 16V? Batterypacks often have voltages higher than specification when fully charged and yes, that can do damage! 16V is not a problem but a few Volts more may well.
Cheers
Jan
raizetcity
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It's oki i am going to check the output 16v ,anyway i am just enjoying the corda 2stedance with the 12v ouput ,thanks jan for the answer .
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