[rendyG]

Hi guys, I´m thinking about getting ISN S16 for my T800 : https://penonaudio.com/isn-audio-s16.html (mmcx, 2.5mm)
Are there any other options worth mentioning around $50? Looking strictly for SPC because the kick on these iems is insane, so my copper cable is no go

 

[Cevisi]

Hi guys, I´m thinking about getting ISN S16 for my T800 : https://penonaudio.com/isn-audio-s16.html (mmcx, 2.5mm)
Are there any other options worth mentioning around $50? Looking strictly for SPC because the kick on these iems is insane, so my copper cable is no go

There is one guy hyping the isn s16 for the t800 its a good but bulky cable

 

[subwoof3r]

Not sure if it's been talked recently but I ordered THIS cable from NiceHCK (with a discount)
It is a "6N UPOCC Copper and Copper-Silver Alloy Mixed Cable Litz"
@hakuzen do it have its number already maybe?

 

[Cevisi]

Delete

 

[progdvd]

Hi guys I need a quick answer, it's a interesting read but I don't have time right now to browse through 170+ pages.

Basicly what are sonic differences between pure copper and pure silver, if any?
I recently bought:
€ 108,35 | GUCraftsman 6n occ copper 0.78mm 2Pin 64audio a12t/u12 TIA Fourte Oriolus re2000 Legend X LCDi4 VE8 Headphone upgrade cable
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/2bySFP8G

I still didn't test it cause I'm waiting my S8F to arrive.

I'm considering this one as well:
€ 117,53 | GUCraftsman 6n occ silver 0.78mm 2Pin 64audio a12t/u12 TIA Fourte Oriolus re2000 Legend X iSINE20 VE8 Headphone upgrade C
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/kzD1xH6C

 

[superuser1]

Hi guys I need a quick answer, it's a interesting read but I don't have time right now to browse through 170+ pages.

Basicly what are sonic differences between pure copper and pure silver, if any?
I recently bought:
€ 108,35 | GUCraftsman 6n occ copper 0.78mm 2Pin 64audio a12t/u12 TIA Fourte Oriolus re2000 Legend X LCDi4 VE8 Headphone upgrade cable
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/2bySFP8G

I still didn't test it cause I'm waiting my S8F to arrive.

I'm considering this one as well:
€ 117,53 | GUCraftsman 6n occ silver 0.78mm 2Pin 64audio a12t/u12 TIA Fourte Oriolus re2000 Legend X iSINE20 VE8 Headphone upgrade C
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/kzD1xH6C

THIS looks interesting

Optimum Proportion Matching Upgraded Cable

Optimum Proportion Matching Upgraded Cable lizt occ Copper+Au-Ag Alloy Pure 7N occ lizt + 1%Gold, 99%silver Golden proportion formula, so that the sound texture is very excellent, full of noble and elegant temperament.

 

[hakuzen]

Hi guys, I´m thinking about getting ISN S16 for my T800 : https://penonaudio.com/isn-audio-s16.html (mmcx, 2.5mm)
Are there any other options worth mentioning around $50? Looking strictly for SPC because the kick on these iems is insane, so my copper cable is no go

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000009633191.html ? although S16 has got lower resistance..

Not sure if it's been talked recently but I ordered THIS cable from NiceHCK (with a discount)
It is a "6N UPOCC Copper and Copper-Silver Alloy Mixed Cable Litz"
@hakuzen do it have its number already maybe?

Not in my list yet. Jim is talking to me to try, measure, and add it. He's got very good expectations about this wire.
If I manage to test it, I'll know if it stands good in front of electro acousti UP-OCC cables

Hi guys I need a quick answer, it's a interesting read but I don't have time right now to browse through 170+ pages.

Basicly what are sonic differences between pure copper and pure silver, if any?
I recently bought:
€ 108,35 | GUCraftsman 6n occ copper 0.78mm 2Pin 64audio a12t/u12 TIA Fourte Oriolus re2000 Legend X LCDi4 VE8 Headphone upgrade cable
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/2bySFP8G

I still didn't test it cause I'm waiting my S8F to arrive.

I'm considering this one as well:
€ 117,53 | GUCraftsman 6n occ silver 0.78mm 2Pin 64audio a12t/u12 TIA Fourte Oriolus re2000 Legend X iSINE20 VE8 Headphone upgrade C
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/kzD1xH6C

Pure silver wire uses to benefit mids and highs perception. Lows are tighter, well textured and detailed, but less sub-bass rumble.

But the wires you have linked to, are copper, and silver plated copper (not pure silver). And, contrarily as expected, sound with spc version is nearer to pure copper wires than copper version:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/low...ck-cable-thread.891911/page-176#post-15198549
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/low...ck-cable-thread.891911/page-176#post-15198567

In the case of UP-OCC wires, wire of cable 174 is UP-OCC pure silver with 1% gold; cable 171 is frozen UP-OCC copper litz, and 175 is a mix of both.
The attributes of these wires match what expected.

 

[bobbooo]

.

 

[bobbooo]

What are sonic differences between pure copper and pure silver, if any?

In the case of IEM-length cables, none. Despite what you might read here, the only attribute of a cable that can possibly influence the sound you'll hear is its resistance. There is zero evidence or scientific basis for anything else causing audible effects. Please see the section 'Copper vs Silver' in this article: https://diyaudioheaven.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/resistance-impedance-and-other-issues.pdf

If the resistance of a cable is too high, it can possibly cause a slight lowering of volume, or your headphones to change their frequency response, if they have a low, wildly varying impedance with frequency, as the cable's resistance adds to the output impedance of your source (this is all explained in that same article). But the cable's resistance would need to be very high for this to have an audible effect.

So when looking for a cable, just get any one with reasonably low resistance. All other characteristics (silver vs copper, number of cores etc) will have no effect on sound if the resistance is the same, but you may prefer one or the other for aesthetic reasons. Any sound impressions you read from people here are due to either placebo and expectation bias, or in a very small number of cases, impedance effects caused by cables with differing resistances.

 

[rendyG]

In the case of IEM-length cables, none. Despite what you might read here, the only attribute of a cable that can possibly influence the sound you'll hear is its resistance. There is zero evidence or scientific basis for anything else causing audible effects. Please see the section 'Copper vs Silver' in this article: https://diyaudioheaven.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/resistance-impedance-and-other-issues.pdf

If the resistance of a cable is too high, it can possibly cause a slight lowering of volume, or your headphones to change their frequency response, if they have a low, wildly varying impedance with frequency, as the cable's resistance adds to the output impedance of your source (this is all explained in that same article). But the cable's resistance would need to be very high for this to have an audible effect.

So when looking for a cable, just get any one with reasonably low resistance. All other characteristics (silver vs copper, number of cores etc) will have no effect on sound if the resistance is the same, but you may prefer one or the other for aesthetic reasons. Any sound impressions you read from people here are due to either placebo and expectation bias, or in a very small number of cases, impedance effects caused by cables with differing resistances.

And yet if you have resolving enough headphones, you can tell.. (at least spc vs copper of same electric properties)
Trust me, I am that kind of guy who relies on measurements, but unfortunately we still can´t measure everything

 

[warriorpoet]

And yet if you have resolving enough headphones, you can tell.. (at least spc vs copper of same electric properties)
Trust me, I am that kind of guy who relies on measurements, but unfortunately we still can´t measure everything

Yep. If they IEMs are sensitive enough, there will be differences beyond resistance (which relies also on capacitance to make those differences bobbooo is referring to).

 

[bobbooo]

Yep. If they IEMs are sensitive enough, there will be differences beyond resistance (which relies also on capacitance to make those differences bobbooo is referring to).

This is false. Please read the article I linked to above. Changes in capacitance will have no audible effect for cables of the length we're talking about. Here is the relevant information from that article:

"Often capacitance and inductance of cables is mentioned as the reason for cables sounding different. Because headphone impedances and output resistances are relatively small the influence of capacitance is extremely small. Large capacitances (long cables, meaning 5m or more) MAY in some cases cause some, not well designed, low output resistance amplifiers to oscillate. Amplifiers with a minimal output resistance of 10 Ohm usually are not afflicted with this problem as the output resistance works as a load for very high frequencies. Even with an output resistance of 120Ω the capacitance of a cable doesn’t cause roll-off at higher frequencies. Low capacitance headphone cables have a capacitance of around 100pF/m, screened cables may reach a value of 250pF in worst case. Exotic cables usually have a low capacitance. So an amplifier with 120Ω output resistance and 5 meter of worse case capacitance (250pF/m) will have a high frequency cut-off of 1MHz (1,000kHz) so capacitance is of no importance for rolled off highs."

 

[hakuzen]

I started my cables experience as a total non-believer.. My formation is 100% scientific.
After two years of trying cables patiently, I'm completely sure there are audible differences, other than those caused by different resistance. Our brain seems to elaborate and amplify tiny differences.

From my list of cables introduction:

"low resistance is symptom of quality of wires, plugs, and solders (together with total thickness of the conductor, of course).
low resistance is important to get minimum total output impedance (of course, if your source output impedance is high, total will be high regardless of cable resistance), in order to minimize tonal alterations when using iems with balanced armatures.
it's also convenient to decrease attenuation and to increase damping factor and efficiency.
(considering my gear, i'd aim to cables below 200mΩ resistance, ~26awg).

cables don't sound, they can only degrade sound more or less.
material and quality of the conductor, plugs, and sleeves, contribute to minimize degradation.
the ideal cable wouldn't degrade sound, so you could reach the limits of your source and phones.

usual measurements don't reveal significant differences in tonality nor distortion. but when rolling cables while listening music, many of us find differences about background noise and stage, which can affect to thickness, definition, separation, and imaging perception. they are not big differences, but noticeable. all these parameters are not easily measurable, and our brain is very special when perceiving sound.

when you plan to buy a cable, you should consider all this. if your sources and/or phones have low quality, it's absurd to get a fancy expensive cable: the bottleneck won't be in the cable.
once you get decent quality gear, you have to remember than in audio every next upgrade is more expensive to get smaller improvement. the limit is your perfectionism grade, and your wallet.
a good idea is to keep proportion, or to pass when you know that the improvement is not worth it compared to the cost.

Other considerations about capacitance, geometry, and isolation of cables

there is some consensus about copper and silver (true silver, not tin or other alloys): copper preserves lows better, silver preserves highs better. not demonstrated once again, but some people affirm to be able to distinguish between them."

So i became a believer in cables, overwhelmed by the weight of my personal experience.

 

[warriorpoet]

This is false. Please read the article I linked to above. Changes in capacitance will have no audible effect for cables of the length we're talking about. Here is the relevant information from that article:

"Often capacitance and inductance of cables is mentioned as the reason for cables sounding different. Because headphone impedances and output resistances are relatively small the influence of capacitance is extremely small. Large capacitances (long cables, meaning 5m or more) MAY in some cases cause some, not well designed, low output resistance amplifiers to oscillate. Amplifiers with a minimal output resistance of 10 Ohm usually are not afflicted with this problem as the output resistance works as a load for very high frequencies. Even with an output resistance of 120Ω the capacitance of a cable doesn’t cause roll-off at higher frequencies. Low capacitance headphone cables have a capacitance of around 100pF/m, screened cables may reach a value of 250pF in worst case. Exotic cables usually have a low capacitance. So an amplifier with 120Ω output resistance and 5 meter of worse case capacitance (250pF/m) will have a high frequency cut-off of 1MHz (1,000kHz) so capacitance is of no importance for rolled off highs."

Bobbooo, I work in two related industries. I do know what I'm talking about here.

 

[thejoker13]

I started my cables experience as a total non-believer.. My formation is 100% scientific.
After two years of trying cables patiently, I'm completely sure there are audible differences, other than those caused by different resistance. Our brain seems to elaborate and amplify tiny differences.

From my list of cables introduction:

"low resistance is symptom of quality of wires, plugs, and solders (together with total thickness of the conductor, of course).
low resistance is important to get minimum total output impedance (of course, if your source output impedance is high, total will be high regardless of cable resistance), in order to minimize tonal alterations when using iems with balanced armatures.
it's also convenient to decrease attenuation and to increase damping factor and efficiency.
(considering my gear, i'd aim to cables below 200mΩ resistance, ~26awg).

cables don't sound, they can only degrade sound more or less.
material and quality of the conductor, plugs, and sleeves, contribute to minimize degradation.
the ideal cable wouldn't degrade sound, so you could reach the limits of your source and phones.

usual measurements don't reveal significant differences in tonality nor distortion. but when rolling cables while listening music, many of us find differences about background noise and stage, which can affect to thickness, definition, separation, and imaging perception. they are not big differences, but noticeable. all these parameters are not easily measurable, and our brain is very special when perceiving sound.

when you plan to buy a cable, you should consider all this. if your sources and/or phones have low quality, it's absurd to get a fancy expensive cable: the bottleneck won't be in the cable.
once you get decent quality gear, you have to remember than in audio every next upgrade is more expensive to get smaller improvement. the limit is your perfectionism grade, and your wallet.
a good idea is to keep proportion, or to pass when you know that the improvement is not worth it compared to the cost.

Other considerations about capacitance, geometry, and isolation of cables

there is some consensus about copper and silver (true silver, not tin or other alloys): copper preserves lows better, silver preserves highs better. not demonstrated once again, but some people affirm to be able to distinguish between them."

So i became a believer in cables, overwhelmed by the weight of my personal experience.

I feel you worded your post perfectly and I agree 100%. Well said friend!