[Krassi]

Hi Hakuzen!

Thanks for your comparison for 175 and 174!
i really am not sure if it is to less bass with 174!

Still the P1s need some burning in and on a Hiby R3 i dondt have a real good source. With the E1DA PowerDACv2 and 9038s i will have the cleanist balanced source for my comparisons (stuff should be here at the end of next week)

--so with "Due to the neutral or bright character of most of my phones, I mixed it with copper (cable 175), to get some sub-bass rumble when listening to EDM." You actually nailed it!

Well but Jazz Vocals and classic Sound is really amazing .. but missing a slight rumble.. actually i can EQ this but i would brefer a solid base its the same with Photos.. If the lightning is good than you dondt have to tweek the hell out of a sub optimal source (thats my job actually with 3D Visualisation Stuff)

whats also very enlitghning is your description of balanced and unbalanced.
Since what i understand now if the plug on the cable has a balanced plug than the internal cabling is different than with an unbalanced because of the different way the left and right chanel is used for the signals..

i would really be happy if you can confirm my thoughts i got from this thread, because y goal is to have customizable maximum quality cables for my gear:

-Ok so with my balanced cable 175 i get balanced in + out .. so is it then ok if i put mmcx to 3,5mm adapters on the two outputs.. can i use the cable with my hifiman sundaras?

-i guess putting an 3,5mm to 2,5mm balanced adapter at the input will not work because the cable gets unbalaced input and the unbalanced plug will transmit unbalanced
over the wire.. so the plug cant change the signalsfrom the input

-Ooookk so when my Source DAC is 2,5mm balanced.. can i use adapters for example on a good cable with 3,5mm unbalanced? i got a sick Cardas Cable together with the Sundaras soon but it has 3,5mm unbalanced input .. i can use this on my JDS Labs Atom but my goal is to use the E1DA Dacs because they are much better and have app controlled EQ (well the Powerdacv2 has this feature)

Best regards, Daniel!

 

[Broquen]

Would you recommend the gu craftsman copper cable more than the hybrid electro acusti if I want more mids and less bass emphasis? Thanks!

UPOCC are very transparent and, as Hakuzen said, this already helps. That said, IMO the changes to the mids are less noticeable than the changes to the lows or highs when trying different conductors (and all of this, in a sometimes hard to perceive way, until you're used to it, listening without change cable/gear for some time). Copper is supposed to bring some meat to the mids, but increase more the lows as counterpart. SPC brings more detail to that mids, but it's colder than copper and increases the highs.
Good quality SPC or a nice litz mixed cable (pure copper + SPC) may be the way to go, due to that at the end, I'd say that mixed cables don't sound as increasing both ends as said, but respecting each other more (not taming). In general you have full bass (near than with pure copper) and highs a bit below than with SPC. IMO this sometimes gives a pinch of air and soundstage if highs are not already very present.

As a side thought, I find highs are more present in the copper cables when doing notable jumps in quality (cores, purity, UPOCC, litz...). Better copper cable, better (and more present) highs, so I tend to think that worse copper tames higher frequencies a bit. That's why mixing helps to that, increasing highs thanks to SPC present.
Please, be aware that this changes are described as I perceive them. It's all about nuances (when speaking of same quality units) and we all listen in a different way.

 

[hakuzen]

Before I ask a question I just wanted to say how much I’ve really enjoyed this thread and how much money it has saved me.... so thanks guys

From my own experience buying budget cables I actually found the very cheapest cable to actually perform the best sound wise.... the difference with the cheapest one was marked... I even tried asking friends and family in case I was creating the improvement and all of them agreed.... that cable was the TRN and it cost me £4 from AliExpress..., the others **** Kbear, HiFi Hear, Nicechk etc don’t come close so far...

My question is if anyone would know what a difference if any a balanced TRRS 3.5mm 2 pin cable could make using either a DAP or IPhone say with or without a DAC (Mojo say) to a standard TRS 3.5mm Cable (assuming same core/thread size and thread)?

I haven’t seen a 3.5mm balanced cable before only 2.5mm and I know you don’t get the balanced effect using it in an unbalanced connection... but you just get the same signal as you would with an unbalanced cable...

The guy selling this cable is saying it is only for the Audeze iSine and will not work with most players and or earphones, what I don’t get is surely it would work it just wouldn’t be a balanced (dual) signal?

And if you don’t have a balanced output for it you will just get an unbalanced effect and it will perform as any other 3.5mm cable?

Is there any benefit buying such a cable ( I’m not looking to) I’m just curious as it seems to contradict what I think I know...

Thanks

It's very rare to see a 3.5mm TRRS balanced plug (very different to 3.5mm TRRS single-ended + mic), because very few sources use such socket.

If you want to get a balanced cable to use it in balanced outputs, but also in 3.5mm TRS single-ended outputs (by using an adapter), you should get a 2.5mm TRRS, 4.4mm TRRRS, or XLR-4 jack (choose the one is used in your balanced output), and choose the proper adapter to convert your chosen jack to 3.5mm TRS single-ended jack.
Check jack adapters (measurements, pics, and links) to see some adapters.

If you get a single-ended 3.5mm TRS cable, you won't be able to use it in your balanced output.

 

[fokta]

Receiving back my 165 after its long tour...
UP-OCC Chopper, need more recognition...

while waiting my 175 coming... ooo boy... can't wait....

 

[hakuzen]

Hi Hakuzen!

Thanks for your comparison for 175 and 174!
i really am not sure if it is to less bass with 174!

Still the P1s need some burning in and on a Hiby R3 i dondt have a real good source. With the E1DA PowerDACv2 and 9038s i will have the cleanist balanced source for my comparisons (stuff should be here at the end of next week)

--so with "Due to the neutral or bright character of most of my phones, I mixed it with copper (cable 175), to get some sub-bass rumble when listening to EDM." You actually nailed it!

Well but Jazz Vocals and classic Sound is really amazing .. but missing a slight rumble.. actually i can EQ this but i would brefer a solid base its the same with Photos.. If the lightning is good than you dondt have to tweek the hell out of a sub optimal source (thats my job actually with 3D Visualisation Stuff)

whats also very enlitghning is your description of balanced and unbalanced.
Since what i understand now if the plug on the cable has a balanced plug than the internal cabling is different than with an unbalanced because of the different way the left and right chanel is used for the signals..

i would really be happy if you can confirm my thoughts i got from this thread, because y goal is to have customizable maximum quality cables for my gear:

-Ok so with my balanced cable 175 i get balanced in + out .. so is it then ok if i put mmcx to 3,5mm adapters on the two outputs.. can i use the cable with my hifiman sundaras?

-i guess putting an 3,5mm to 2,5mm balanced adapter at the input will not work because the cable gets unbalaced input and the unbalanced plug will transmit unbalanced
over the wire.. so the plug cant change the signalsfrom the input

-Ooookk so when my Source DAC is 2,5mm balanced.. can i use adapters for example on a good cable with 3,5mm unbalanced? i got a sick Cardas Cable together with the Sundaras soon but it has 3,5mm unbalanced input .. i can use this on my JDS Labs Atom but my goal is to use the E1DA Dacs because they are much better and have app controlled EQ (well the Powerdacv2 has this feature)

Best regards, Daniel!

Yes, you perceive less bass with 174 than with 175. I also don't mind to EQ, and also prefer to start from a neutral transparent point. Your comparison with image treatment is spot on.

Hiby R3, E1DA PowerDACv2 and 9038s are all good sources. I've only tried 9038s, and am impressed with its performance (very powerful, very low output impedance, noise and distortion, tiny, very adequate for p1).

Main effect of balanced signals for IEMs is big (usually) crosstalk reduction, which helps to get wider soundstage. Then, double power (double voltage, +6dB, because you use two amplifiers), nice for hard to drive phones, like planars or high impedance or low sensitivity phones.

Either balanced and unbalanced/single-ended signals need 2 separated conductors at the phones side: one for positive signal, the other for negative (balanced) or ground (unbalanced).
Any cable with a minimum of 4 separated conductors is suitable for both, balanced and single-ended signals.
In theory, the conductors would have to be twisted (by pairs) and the whole cable should feature some shielding, in order to reduce EMI noise, but this is not so important for 1.5m cables (short), which will be far from electromagnetic sources generally.
Then, the difference resides in the jack of the cable. Single-ended jacks have only 3 contacts (or 4 contacts if using mic), while balanced jacks have a minimum of 4 contacts for audio output signals.

You can use a balanced cable in a single-ended output, by using adapters (affordable, Check jack adapters (measurements, pics, and links) to see some adapters). Common ground is sent through "negative" conductors. Of course, you won't get balanced signals in this case, but you'll be able to use the cable with both types of sources.
The opposite is not recommendable. Although you can find 2.5mm TRRS male to 3.5mm TRS female adapters, they usually connect both negative signals (left and right) to ground, which means shorting two output signals; if your source is not protected against this kind of short, you could damage your source's amplifier. And if they connect only one negative signal (from one side) to ground, guess the resulting sound would be weird. The only acceptable configuration would be having a 4.4mm TRRRS socket where ground (sleeve) is provided at the source, and connect that ground to the ground (sleeve) contact of the 3.5mm TRS jack (leaving negative signals disconnected).

Yes, termination of MMCX/2pins use 2 conductors for signals in each side. You can convert them to any connector which have a minimum of 2 contacts, like 3.5/2.5mm TRS or TS, or many other plugs. I use my MMCX/2pin terminated cables with HE400i (2.5 and 3.5mm versions), Ananda (3.5mm), but also with Audio Technica IEMs. Pity there isn't an affordable wide offer of these adapters in Aliexpress yet, but you can find good ones at taobao (I'll add a list of termination adapters, with pics and links, as soon as possible).

 

[hakuzen]

Receiving back my 165 after its long tour...
UP-OCC Chopper, need more recognition...

while waiting my 175 coming... ooo boy... can't wait....

nice detailed pic of the wire of 172/165!

 

[Krassi]

Ah thanks for the detailed Answer!

Ah great you also have an 9038s!
Main Reason for me was Planar with Balanced because they seem to scale incredible with a powerfull DAC.
Thats why i got me the Tin P1 and Hifiman Sundaras.. and i actually dondt regret this

great description! i seem to understand the main difference now.. "needs 3 channels" vs "needs 4 channels" and some wrong adapters would fry the headphones.

For the adapters.. of course i ordered your prefered https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32876989769.html in 2,5 to 3,5 and 3,5 to 2,5 )

And for the MMCX the only ones i could find are those https://de.aliexpress.com/item/32860689554.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.d9724c4dWIguYQ
AWESOME!!! so i could use cable 174 with those on the Sundaras...!! Thanks for confirming this now iam happy as **** )

This Cardas cable for the sundaras i got from the seller of the sundaras (320 bucks got it for 100 bucks with 6,3 to 3,5 adapter)
is 3 meters and has 6,3 connector input.. and actually a perfect match for the Atom..and i guess i could put adapters to MMCX on them to drive the P1s... but with cable 174 i would be stupid to do this i want balanced glory and use all the stuff on the E1DA dacs)


So really big thanks for your entlightment!
You really are "The Cable Guy" Nr1 for those great Bargain Chinese Cables

Best regards Daniel!

 

[hakuzen]

some wrong adapters would fry the headphones

some wrong adapters could fry the source's amplifier.

And for the MMCX the only ones i could find are those https://de.aliexpress.com/item/32860689554.html

I find these shorter (better conductivity): https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=567550044376
But the MMCX connector is thicker: tight and secure fit, but also more difficult to unplug.

so i could use cable 174 with those on the Sundaras

Yes. In the case of Sundara, HE400i, Ananda, I'd prefer cable 175 though. They are on the brighter side.

 

[Krassi]

Ah thanks for the link! i guess ill need a proxy to order from china
for japanese stuff i use buyee (to buy japanese natural sharpening finish stones from kyoto mostly from yahoo.jp auctions.. if you think hifi is a strange hobby then this is even more exotic ) )

I will also try and exchange cable 174 with 175.
ill ask the guy form electro acousti firt. somehow i am not happy with the sound from the first moments on.
Shipping to china from germany should be 10 bucks so i dondt care of any axtra costs. i just cant buy both now

Best regards daniel!

 

[ephrank]

awesome sound quality, the cable itself is a bit on the soft side(too soft for my taste) and thin ( would want a 8 core version of this, this is 4 core).

Hi @RikudouGoku @Orl14 Please share your impression of the 6N OCC cable, thanks!

 

[RikudouGoku]

Hi @RikudouGoku @Orl14 Please share your impression of the 6N OCC cable, thanks!

I only have this one that is balanced 4,4mm for the KXXS. So if I did compare I can only do it with this one : https://www.aliexpress.com/item/329...chweb0_0,searchweb201602_1,searchweb201603_60

So as you can see it is a big difference in quality and not balanced so the comparison would not be fair.

But I can give some impression of the cable without comparing it.

Setup: Fiio M11 balanced (4,4mm), Moondrop KXXS, FLAC files at least, With one DSD64 (Chlara-evo sessions Bliss)

Lows: Clean and controlled ( almost no rumble, Eq the bass and still very controlled, awesome)


Mids: Crisp vocals ( females sound really clean and no sibilance)

Highs: amazing detail, clean and no sibilance

soundstage: big soundstage ( this might be due to the 4,4 balanced)

Overall: My best cable right now and I own cables from 10-60 usd and this one costs 40 usd. The sound in general is very good across the entire range, it does not boost only one side but everything sounds equally good. Which is what I was looking for in a hybrid cable to be used with my KXXS that also has a very balanced/neutral sound. My only cons is subjective and that is that the cable is a bit too soft and thin ( only 4 cores so...) others might dislike the non functional chinslider but I do not use that so it does not matter to me.



(I am not completely familiar with all the right terms so I can not go in depth, we can hope that our cable god (@hakuzen) picks it up)

 

[superuser1]

From the cable druid to the cable God!

 

[hakuzen]

From the cable druid to the cable God!

lol, yeah, you started to call me "the cable druid" time ago.. i feel i'm still at that stage..

 

[Fishdo]

@Krassi


If you need any help getting anything from China to Germany let me know mate I’m happy to help if I can... I’m in UK...


WWG1WGA

 

[muths66]

lol, yeah, you started to call me "the cable druid" time ago.. i feel i'm still at that stage..

You the man