[jc9394]

Finally ge a chance to try the iPad with Pico amp/DAC after upgrade to 4.2.1. It still works great, now I av second thought selling it.

 

[upstateguy]

I was looking for a solution that would let me power the ipad with AC and use the line out feature at the same time.
 
I bought this little gizmo called a PocketDock on amazon.
 

 
It says you can use the usb cord from a digital camera or portable HD for power.  I connected it to the ipad charger and it charged to full capacity and then displayed the plugged in icon while I browsed the internet and listened to streamed music.
 

 
I was able to stream through shoutcast, note that the shoutcast volume control is disabled with the line out
 

 
I'm still using 3.2 so the only way I was able to listen to music and browse at the same time was to stream the music with safari, minimize the page and open another one to browse with.
 

 
I've had a chance to compare the digital out via my Pico dac with the ipad line out and don't think there's enough improvement to hassle with the digital.  If I had a pico amp/dac I might use that because it's no harder than using the line out, but for my purposes, I'd just as soon have the ipad plugged in, so if I fall asleep listening to music, it's not discharging all night.
 
I have 2 more line out docks coming and will try the digital with them just to be sure I'm not missing anything.
 
USG
 

 

[sluker]

Is the sound noticeably better than the HPO?

 

[The Monkey]

Quote:

4.2 changed the allowable power draw of the dock connector from 100mA to 20mA. If you have a device that uses less than 20mA you are ok. Hopefully the iPad 2 will get a bigger battery and apple will change this or allow users to manage the power draw.

Do you have a link to this info?  Thanks.
 
EDIT: I've also seen these numbers posted elsewhere, but nothing points to any hard evidence and I'm not sure I agree with the 20mA number.

 

[The Monkey]

So, I've been looking into this a bit more.  I can find all kinds of posts and articles that state that Apple changed the power out of the camera connection from 100mA to 20mA.  But there is no hard evidence ANYWHERE to support that.  In fact, it appears that some equipment draws more than that and still works.  Also, it appears that some devices also work through a NON-powered USB hub.  In other words, a powered USB hub that isn't plugged into the wall.  See here for more:  http://forum.harmonicdog.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=307&start=20
 
Can you guys try powering down your USB hubs, but leave the DAC attached to it and see if it works with the iPad?
 
Also, dealing with the Apple fanboisandgirlz on this stuff is such an enormous pain in the ass.  Most responses to any query about this issue are along the lines of "APPLE NEVER PROMISED YOU A ROSE GARDEN."  Morons.

 

[mrspeakers]

I don't know that the specs are on the USB port but unless it is done right, USB digital audio can high in jitter and sound pretty poor.

 


Jitter can be cleaned up by a DAC which re-clocks the signal. The CEntrance DACport does this really well...

 

[justin w.]

The Pico DAC/Amp, and Pico Upsampling USB DAC uses 97mA and still works with the iPad

 

[upstateguy]

Quote:

Jitter can be cleaned up by a DAC which re-clocks the signal. The CEntrance DACport does this really well...

 
Do you know what dac chip it uses?
 
USG

 

[mrspeakers]

I don't know what chip but I can say this; sonicly it outperforms my D12. It also has class A amps.

I am awaiting my T3 to try with iPad as it won't run off USB.

 

[upstateguy]

Quote:

I don't know what chip but I can say this; sonicly it outperforms my D12. It also has class A amps.

I am awaiting my T3 to try with iPad as it won't run off USB.

Are you saying that the HPO of the DACport sounds better than the HPO of the D12?  <-- just to clarify
 
I never listened to a D12 but the web site says that it is self powered, which is a big plus for using with the ipad.
 
I'm curious if the class A amp in the DACport will draw too much current (even with a T3)?
 
That said, I listened to the digital out from my ipad with my regular laptop rig (  BCT > NorthStar MKII > GS-1 > T1 ) and was relatively unimpressed.

 

[mrspeakers]

Quote:

Are you saying that the HPO of the DACport sounds better than the HPO of the D12?  <-- just to clarify
 
I never listened to a D12 but the web site says that it is self powered, which is a big plus for using with the ipad.
 
I'm curious if the class A amp in the DACport will draw too much current (even with a T3)?
 
That said, I listened to the digital out from my ipad with my regular laptop rig (  BCT > NorthStar MKII > GS-1 > T1 ) and was relatively unimpressed.

I like the HPO of the DACPort a BIT more but the equation is pretty complex.  They are both excellent with the JHA 16Pros.  I'm wait-listed for some LCD-2s and my venerable MDR-V6's bit the dust, so I haven't tried either with a full-size can.  I don't know the output impedance of the D12 (I just got a new multi-meter and will figure that out soon), but the DACPort is 10ohms, which will probably affect performance with power hungry phones.  I'll measure the iBasso later this week, as I just got some new test-gear.
 
Ultimately, the decision between them is easy: if you want to drive the amp off both digital or line-level device or an iPad or iPhone, the D12 is the winner by default.  The DACPort doe NOT work with a camera connector and T3, while the D12 does if in battery-mode.  If all your listening is digital and self-powered isn't needed, the DACPort is my choice.
 
Details: 
 
The digital output of the iPad sounds better than line-level output with the D12 than the line-level output, though the difference was actually less than I expected.  I saw some discussion that the iPad uses Wolfson DACs, might would explain the relatively small difference.  I am guessing the difference iPads' line-amp is a lower quality op amp, which accounts for the increased background noise, slightly more veiled sound and reduced "dark space" between the notes with the line-out.
 
For casual/background listening (and longer battery life), I'll probably end up using the line-out as much as the camera kit, as the D12 gets almost 2x the run time using the line-input and unless I'm really listening hard I wouldn't notice the difference.
 
If you can afford multiple devices or only run off a laptop or desktop, the DACPort has a slight edge over the D12 (which I run without buffers with my JH16s) for digital sources.  When running off my MacBook Pro, the DACPort is more lively and dynamic sounding, with cleaner transients, a bit more "dark space" between the notes, and a greater sense of air around voices, percussion and string instruments, in particular.   The DACPort also resolves details around percussion and high-frequency instruments better.
 
Again, these are pretty minor differences, it's really the difference between excellent and, well, more excellent.  If the DACPort didn't exist, I'd be totally happy with the D12, and if I could only afford one I would be fine with having a D12 due to the versatility of this excellent product (I love having 96K capability, I've got a lot of really good FLAC source material now).
 
I caved and bought both.  

 
When I get the LCD-2s I'll do a full review of the system.

 

[steaxauce]

dsissitka said the D12 is working for him, but it's not working for me.  When I connect the D12 to the camera connection kit, the USB charge switch in the off position, I get a message saying, "The connected USB device requires too much power."  Any advice is appreciated.

 

[grokit]

Try a T3 or powered hub in between the CCK and the D12.

 

[mrspeakers]

I have that exact setup, and the T3 works fine with the D12.  The problem is you now have 6" of junk hanging off the side of the iPad.  I find that unless I'm really listing I use the LOD, lot's simpler...  It's interesting the D12 draws to much power even when running off battery and with the charger off.  

 

[AndrewG]

would a PICO DAC/AMP sound the same with an ipad, as it does with a regular computer/macbook?