[stuck limo]

we're now at 149 "Open" tickets.

Down to 100, for anyone interested.

 

[sjp770]

Thanks for the update. I do believe that the original chassis was a B to manufacture and you are making your way to fixing it. Glad communication is getting better (let's face it, it couldn't get worse). Haters are bound to be here, can't blame them but it's not constructive. Get through the tickets and get me my Vi DAC.

 

[MikeyFresh]

@stuck limo
At some point in the last month or two, on one forum or another (you guys have played that musical communication channel, not the paid backers), you answered a question of mine about the sudden and mysterious removal on the official Vi DAC IGG product description page of any/all mention of the chassis being CNC milled from T6061 billet.
Do you remember having answered that question? I do, but I'd like you to recall that conversation, it wasn't too long ago at all.

 

[stuck limo]

@stuck limo
At some point in the last month or two, on one forum or another (you guys have played that musical communication channel, not the paid backers), you answered a question of mine about the sudden and mysterious removal on the official Vi DAC IGG product description page of any/all mention of the chassis being CNC milled from T6061 billet.
Do you remember having answered that question? I do, but I'd like you to recall that conversation, it wasn't too long ago at all.

I remember it too. Is there a new question over it?

If your question is why we haven't put it back into the FAQ, there's many reasons, chiefly: a) low priority b) you're the only one asking about it and c) it's still CNC machined from T6061 aluminum, regardless of whether it's in the FAQ or IGG page or wherever.

If I get time to do it when I'm not dealing with more important matters, like fixing orders or making personal outreach calls to backers, or answering real questions on the forums, or talking to Larry or LHL staff or hunting down staff who knows the answers, I'll do it.

 

[MikeyFresh]

I remember it too. Is there a new question over it?



If your question is why we haven't put it back into the FAQ, there's many reasons, chiefly: a) low priority b) you're the only one asking about it and c) it's still CNC machined from T6061 aluminum, regardless of whether it's in the FAQ or IGG page or wherever.

If I get time to do it when I'm not dealing with more important matters, like fixing orders or making personal outreach calls to backers, or answering real questions on the forums, or talking to Larry or LHL staff or hunting down staff who knows the answers, I'll do it.

Low Priority huh? So even though you explicitly stated that you'd make that revision, it's now conveniently deemed "low priority"?

You do realize the entire point of the original question was to see who (and when) was trying to revise the historical record on this, specifically a change in exactly what was marketed to backers in writing in exchange for their money pledges 3+ years ago. Don't think for one second that isn't important, it is. Currently it is blatant evidence of a potential bait and switch, so if that isn't the case, then a very hasty revision by LH Labs is most certainly in order.

I'm the only one asking for that eh? So because only one backer has pressed for that answer in writing, you think that means I'm the only one owed that answer? Have you and @Larry Ho adopted an approach whereby only those questions with the highest number of backers asking are due an answer? So even when you've stated previously you'd make an official revision, you can just renege on that, based on only one person officially asking in writing?

I wonder if you've ever read the "old LH Labs" forum discussion on this? It was pages long, and it took months to sort, where Gavin Fish stated LHL were going to switch the Vi DAC chassis from CNC milled out of T6061 aluminum, to a cheaper cast version, at which point there was a huge outcry. After the forum erupted in response to Gavin's all-too casual mention of significantly cheapening the chassis/design production, Larry Ho stated the original campaign promise would be honored.

But LHL has since killed that forum, part of a plan to revise that history along with a quiet change to the IGG campaign product description page? Hopefully no one even notices?

But thanks for the above commit to a CNC machined chassis. When will the details be made public on that? Please ask Larry to compare and contrast with the Pulse v2.0 chassis change, where some backers still have no delivered unit to this day.

PS - the original answer Larry gave (or what it was provided here by you) on this topic is completely evasive and inadequate. Surely someone must know who took it upon themselves to just suddenly after 3+ years alter the official IGG product web page for the Vi DAC by removing written reference to the specific chassis design and production method, and then surprise surprise, a vague mention of a future different chassis "option" (sound familiar Pulse backers?) subsequently surfaces, but with no details.

Looks like Vi DAC is moving in the exact same direction that the Pulse did, with a chassis switch and thus a license granted for indefinite additional delays. As if the chassis hadn't already been the primary excuse for well over 2 years, add insult to injury on that very same topic with talk of a new chassis option "under design".

"FAQ or IGG page or wherever"? No, not wherever, those are two different things. Both need the revision, most pressingly the IGG web page where the original solicitation for backer funds was presented by LH Labs over 3 years ago.

answering real questions on the forums,

This too is a very real question, for the reasons I described above. I see the miraculous progress you've reported on the outstanding tickets and "order problems" so finding a bit of time to nail down Larry on the issue I describe above shouldn't be much of a diversion at this point, I hope you might find the time to to do it.

The huge backlog of tickets and order problems is not the fault of the backers, I'm sure you know that. So while all involved appreciate your huge personal effort in that area, it does not unfortunately earn LH Labs much trust or leeway on the reported status of various other outstanding challenges in delivering on the promises made in exchange for IGG backer money.

 

[stuck limo]

I wonder if you've ever read the "old LH Labs" forum discussion on this? It was pages long, and it took months to sort, where Gavin Fish stated LHL were going to switch the Vi DAC chassis from CNC milled out of T6061 aluminum, to a cheaper cast version, at which point there was a huge outcry. After the forum erupted in response to Gavin's all-too casual mention of significantly cheapening the chassis/design production, Larry Ho stated the original campaign promise would be honored.

But LHL has since killed that forum, part of a plan to revise that history along with a quiet change to the IGG campaign product description page? Hopefully no one even notices?

But thanks for the above commit to a CNC machined chassis. When will the details be made public on that? Please ask Larry to compare and contrast with the Pulse v2.0 chassis change, where some backers still have no delivered unit to this day.

PS - the original answer Larry gave (or what it was provided here by you) on this topic is completely evasive and inadequate. Surely someone must know who took it upon themselves to just suddenly after 3+ years alter the official IGG product web page for the Vi DAC by removing written reference to the specific chassis design and production method, and then surprise surprise, a vague mention of a future different chassis "option" (sound familiar Pulse backers?) subsequently surfaces, but with no details.

Honestly, if I had to take a guess, it was Gavin who removed it (as pointed out by your post referencing his announcment) and Larry wasn't aware of it. When I asked Larry specifically about your question, he specifically stated he didn't even know it was gone.

Anyway, the specific answer to your specific question is: nothing has changed, the original agreement still stands, and if you get anything other than the original material we promised, you're welcome to post negatively about it and reference my quote and post.

As far as posting it, I'll get it to eventually, but right now with the latest update, we're back to tons of tickets so I'm going to be swamped again.

 

[m17xr2b]

Need to find my silver tongue detector. You do have to realize it's been over three years now and while the bait and switch was 100%true like when I asked if I can sill upgrade 1.5 years later and the answer was sure hurry we ship in 2 months send half of my then monthy salary. And I did, and 1.5 years later still nothing.
I think most of the backars have a simiar story so need to understand my trust was 2 out of 10 and now it's 0.
It's been clear since I saw Gavin holding a packed Vi with one hand above his head with Larry next to him so let's not blame everything on him.
How is the prototype IEM? I hear Larry is showing it arround but I'm not sure it's his and roumors are he does not want to give it back.

Don't take this the wrong way. I think what you are doing is great but the company you work for not so much.

 

[mulveling]

It looks like plastic crap. Disprove me.

 

[MikeyFresh]

Honestly, if I had to take a guess, it was Gavin who removed it (as pointed out by your post referencing his announcment) and Larry wasn't aware of it.

The original wording survived on the web page description long after Gavin was gone from LH Labs, it was still there even somewhat recently. So if that question was posed to Larry in such a way as to suggest he needed to dig back far for the answer, that isn't the case and I apologize in advance if the way I asked the question led to that confusion.

The change to the IGG product description was made relatively recently, so that should make it much easier for Larry to figure who did it and why.

Who is the campaign owner? At one point it was still Gavin, and he did have access to post that infamous "update" that surprised everyone well after he was gone. But surely Larry had Gavin's access removed at that point, leaving who to make changes like the one I describe? @Larry Ho ?

 

[stuck limo]

The original wording survived on the web page description long after Gavin was gone from LH Labs, it was still there even somewhat recently. So if that question was posed to Larry in such a way as to suggest he needed to dig back far for the answer, that isn't the case and I apologize in advance if the way I asked the question led to that confusion.

The change to the IGG product description was made relatively recently, so that should make it much easier for Larry to figure who did it and why.

Who is the campaign owner? At one point it was still Gavin, and he did have access to post that infamous "update" that surprised everyone well after he was gone. But surely Larry had Gavin's access removed at that point, leaving who to make changes like the one I describe? @Larry Ho ?

Again, i asked Larry specifically who removed it and when and why, and he knew nothing about it. I also asked if the material had changed and he said "no".

As far as campaign owner, since there's no information on IGG identifying who owns it, except for LH Labs name on the Profile. I assume Gavin passed ownership back to LH Labs, but I have no way of verifying that except through Larry.

In fact, if anyone would like to read our Q&A, we definitively answered the CNC question in September:
https://support.lhlabs.com/solution/articles/13000038065-vi-dac-q-a-1

Now maybe we can move on to more pressing matters or conspiracy theories that haven't already been answered about 4 times by me for the same individual.

 

[MikeyFresh]

Now maybe we can move on to more pressing matters or conspiracy theories that haven't already been answered about 4 times by me for the same individual.

There are no conspiracy theories, starting with Gavin Fish 3+ years ago and right on to today there are more than one attempt by LH Labs to back away from the original chassis design that LH Labs solicited IGG backing funds for.

But, OK, lets move on. What happened to those previously promised bi-weekly updates? No, I'm not suggesting you made that promise, @Larry Ho did. Though it was never kept to at all, right about now might be a good time to provide an update on this campaign being the last official one was on November 15th. Or are we shooting for something in the way of an update in 2018?

 

[bernardperu]

@stuck limo

Dear Jarek, at this point I would like to ask you some questions in order to find out how truthful LH Labs is about delivering the products that they owe us. These questions will also help us clarify whether you have been hired to "buy time" and "appease us" or to actually be a part of a well functioning manufacturing machine.

As of now, LH Labs owes me the following products and over 3 years have gone by since I paid for them:


Contribution Amount: $1,969
Payment Method: PayPal
Perk: GFO: Geek Soul Tube (4th Lot)
Estimated Delivery Date: June 2015!!!

Contribution Amount: $869
Payment Method: PayPal
Perk: GFO GTB Balanced

Add-on
Contribution Amount: $1,244
Payment Method: PayPal
Perk: GFO - Geek Wave XDF 256

Contribution Amount: $888
Payment Method: PayPal
Perk: Geek Power Amp M200

Contribution Amount: $888
Payment Method: PayPal
Perk: Geek Power Amp M200

And there are more add-ons . . . and many more people in my situation.

You can exclude the add-on from this question: How many of each have been purchased and what % have you delivered? (please note that we are counting on your word and on a later communication I may ask proof on this %).

Variations should be deemed as irrelevant: It does not matter if people ordered the solid state or tube versions, etc. What matters is the main product and not their sub-models.

So, for instance, you could tell us that 1000 Geek Souls (Vi Dac) have been purchased and you have delivered 50, resulting in a 5% delivery rate.

Thank you for your honest cooperation. These are the types of questions which will help us clarify the reliability of the firm you represent.

Bernard

 

[AVJazz]

In the spirit of the holidays, may I propose that we all take a step back and cease hostilities for a bit and turn our attention to more important matters like family, friends, neighbors, at least until the new year.

And then, Jarek, it would be great if you could ask LH to share his New Year's* resolutions: which hopefully might include when and how he will be delivering against his commitments.

While it's great that apparently tremendous progress has been made clearing up tickets and responsiveness to questions, frankly, from the Vi DAC Tube perspective, for all intents and purposes there has been essentially no progress to speak of for the past year. Sorry, but from product delivery standpoint running around in chassis manufacture/re-design circles and regurgitating the same "... we're planning to..." does not count as progress.

* In the spirit of being sensitive to cultural diversity, not sure which, if any, New Year's calendars LH might celebrate; but regardless, this would be a good time for reflection and some honest commitments as to what we should realistically expect and not expect in the year-to-come.

Have a great holiday all (and maybe take a moment to listen to some music!)

 

[stuck limo]

In the spirit of the holidays, may I propose that we all take a step back and cease hostilities for a bit and turn our attention to more important matters like family, friends, neighbors, at least until the new year.

And then, Jarek, it would be great if you could ask LH to share his New Year's* resolutions: which hopefully might include when and how he will be delivering against his commitments.

While it's great that apparently tremendous progress has been made clearing up tickets and responsiveness to questions, frankly, from the Vi DAC Tube perspective, for all intents and purposes there has been essentially no progress to speak of for the past year. Sorry, but from product delivery standpoint running around in chassis manufacture/re-design circles and regurgitating the same "... we're planning to..." does not count as progress.

* In the spirit of being sensitive to cultural diversity, not sure which, if any, New Year's calendars LH might celebrate; but regardless, this would be a good time for reflection and some honest commitments as to what we should realistically expect and not expect in the year-to-come.

Have a great holiday all (and maybe take a moment to listen to some music!)

I have shared this very nice and thoughtful post with Larry. I hope 2018 will see some positive progression in regards to the campaign! Merry Christmas, everyone! And happy holidays to everyone else as well!

 

[bernardperu]

I have shared this very nice and thoughtful post with Larry. I hope 2018 will see some positive progression in regards to the campaign! Merry Christmas, everyone! And happy holidays to everyone else as well!

So you will address my question after the Holidays? i am happy with that. I promise that I will always keep the language "user-friendly"vand will not use any unpleasant language. Just want hear some facts.

Happy Holidays!