[manaox2]

We are off-topic. Remember, headphone rigs are very different in nature then speaker rigs. Speakers and headphones are really hard to be used for a proper comparison, you probably should not try to compare in terms of value. Headphones are much cheaper typically in terms of producing resolution, but also have limitations in terms of visceral feedback and sound stage. That discussion is for another thread.

 

[ZephyrSapphire]

Gah. So many pages to read after one night! Lol. Well gotta agree with manaox2 (I think) that portable amps are often compared with portable amps. No doubt that they should be compared with those but not all the time. The price you pay for portability should only be a small portion of the cost, like what? 10%? Custom knobs, custom shapes, custom this and that blablabla. Those are just such a great way of wasting money. Aesthetics should come third when it comes to amps IMHO. Singpower amps are ugly as hell but people buy them because they sound good. Portable amps should be compared with every other amp within the same price range, regardless whether it's a portable amp or home amp. The price of portability is very questionable for an amp. Not that I'm bashing Ray, but the SR-71A? I would never call that a portable. That would be 100% hands down be labeled as a transportable IMHO. I wouldn't mind paying the same digits for a Pico. Even if it MIGHT not sound as good. Because that is an actual portable. With a DAC to boot. A portable amp is a portable amp. Portability will ALWAYS come first. Sound quality second. Aesthetics third. Transportables should 100% be compared to home rigs of the same price. Transportables are just home rigs with batteries IMHO. I don't see why they can't be compared. I haven SEEN a decent-looking (AS IN SIZE-WISE) portable amp since the Pico came out. The Pico has set such high standards which are hard to beat for a portable. And there isn't any out there that can actually beat it as of yet. Smaller than the Tomahawk and sounds bigger and better than a lot of other amps. People should start setting the Pico as the amp to beat. Not some large, non pocket friendly, chunky, transportable amp like the SR-71A or something. A lot of amps are small enough as it is. Time to make them slim enough.

Little Bob. What amp you should've bought instead of the SR-71A that you love? A home amp or a smaller portable amp. Or even a transportable amp. The RSA XP-7 and the Lisa III should be some transportable amps which are within the same price range as the SR-71A. I would never settle with something trying to be in between.

Headamp's Pico, Dr. Xin's amps and iBasso's line of amps. Those are the amps that other amp manufacturer's should be trying to beat in terms or portability to sound quality ratio for a decent price tag.

Now. I am not bashing any amps I've stated in this long long essay, but seriously, isn't it the truth? Even Luminette himself can't be bothered tugging around his amps anymore. A portable rig which indeed fails to be a portable rig, is a disgrace to the word portability, regardless of how good it sounds.

Now on a fun note. Someone should design a small, THIN amp which sounds so good for it's price that it'll make me, Luminette, or anyone who's not happy about their current portable amp, be willing to buy the amp.

 

[qusp]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sherwood /img/forum/go_quote.gif Wrong. If we were "printing money" we would be experiencing rapid inflation, which would devalue our currency in regards to yours. Instead, it is worth far more. While the US markets are indeed declining at an alarming rate, it is LESS alarming than many other former powerhouse nations. The whole world is falling apart, and the US is falling apart less, so our currency is worth more. Also, I am not "quite literally" standing in excrement. I'm not sure you understand what the word "literally" means.

I'm sorry my use of language at 4am didn't meet your lofty standards. I should've known not to get involved in a to and fro with you; I dont know what I was thinking you seem quite content to just stand on the sidelines and contribute nothing but 'smart' comments; picking at the semantics of one tiny piece of somebody's post and making fun of it; while leaving the topic at hand unaltered. Does this make you feel intellectually superior?

Anyway i've had enough of conflict; so what do we suggest to make these amps more portable?; no volume control? or perhaps a quality inline volume control? This would spread the form factor out over two manageable size pieces. The limiting factors in miniaturization are 3 things:

1 a decent volume knob.

2 the size of decent capacitors

3 the size of a decent long-life battery power supply with enough current to drive a large range of headphones.

what can we do about the other 2? perhaps solar powered augmentation of a smaller power supply lol now i'm just being silly but seriously what can we do about that one guys? Its not like an amp manufacturer is going to get involved in the prototyping and manufacturing of batteries.
With capacitors I guess if you're willing to take a SQ hit in the interest of portability then that could be reduced as well.

any other suggestion? lets list the limiting factors and tackle them 1 by 1

 

[frozenice]

I think what you have to do is have a recessed part - that is recessed enough for the Apple Nano to fit in - with a dock connector at the bottom and a means of securing the Nano at the top. Make it the size of the Predator and then you would have an all-in-one solution.

 

[qusp]

Quote:

Originally Posted by frozenice /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think what you have to do is have a recessed part - that is recessed enough for the Apple Nano to fit in - with a dock connector at the bottom and a means of securing the Nano at the top. Make it the size of the Predator and then you would have an all-in-one solution.

sounds good except it would limit the market to people wit nanos and then probably apple would release a different sized/shaped nano anyway. plus that would mean that it would have to be at least 15mm wider and thicker than the dap. good though

 

[manaox2]

Quote:

Originally Posted by qusp /img/forum/go_quote.gif any other suggestion? lets list the limiting factors and tackle them 1 by 1

A true portable won't manage the optimal voltage swing needed for those high impedance low sensitivity headphones using current small batteries with a decent life, if you like them with that still, fine, but its not being properly amped (physically impossible). Now the design plays into it a ton and I'm not an advanced DIY guy at all. Keeping power and ground out of the signal as much as possible (shouldn't be hard with ground). The mini-3 would be a good portable design to study for the project maybe.

Recessed is interesting, a DIYer could also get that made... smaller, cheaper, more rugged, no large interconnect and its also possibly better quality, like having it hardwired. Great idea.

Maybe thats the DIY innovation that was mentioned needed earlier. I don't think anything except the iPod/iMod necessarily call for an amp either.

I also think blackgates are not too big and are a good size. The capacity needed for a portable does not require these huge balking capacitors. Portables don't need large values with the power involved, so the size is not needed. I personally think that a lot of head-fiers put too much stock in how large the capacitors are and get ideas like "more burn-in" needed and higher quality. Its absolutely not needed or necessarily true and very few portables from the portable offerings outside of RSA use the huge capacitor.

I think the iQube proved a point that power can be tamed a bit for excellent effect and battery life. I wish the price was more affordable, but it was the best I've heard in terms of detail and bass tightness. I didn't listen to it for long however and I've heard some things from others that I need to get another listen.

I need to call it a night though, really, someone more involved with amp design should be doing this.

 

[manaox2]

Quote:

Originally Posted by qusp /img/forum/go_quote.gif sounds good except it would limit the market to people wit nanos and then probably apple would release a different sized/shaped nano anyway. plus that would mean that it would have to be at least 15mm wider and thicker than the dap. good though

You could aways add an adapter that fits in that recessed part. Designs can be updated. 15 mm wider and thicker is NOTHING compared to today's portable amps.

 

[qusp]

problem is that blackgate are the exception; with other high quality capacitors even low values are quite large. too low and you get bass roll off, too high and you get rolled off highs. I think the only way we are going to get this done is to do it ourselves as a committee there is a guy that was talking about building an amp on the DIYMOD thread a couple of days ago; and he said he was going to open it up for suggestions from us. Perhaps i'll PM him later with the URL for this thread. Then we can decide on the mission statement and start a new thread to deal with it.

sound like a good idea?

\I agree with you about the ground plane the need to 'sandwhich' the amp components between 2 ground planes and isolate the power supply is essential for quiet operation

 

[jamato8]

There is also a debate as to whether two ground planes is effective at improving the sound. There is the opinion that this can actually degrade the sound.

 

[Luckyleo]

Listen, I've a SR71A and consider it a portable. Why? I carry it in a man purse. I know it sounds strange, but it's true. I may get some strange looks, but it works. For me a Pico is as portable as is an SR71A, as Millet Hybryd as is an RSA P51. Transportability and great sound quality is what I need and what I have. I would recommend that anyone who needs/desires portability would be a fool to invest in a home rig. Period. If you're not there to hear it why set it up? Wake up guys. We're talking about apples and oranges. Why is that such a hard concept to accept, understand, and move on?

 

[Sherwood]

Quote:

Originally Posted by qusp /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm sorry my use of language at 4am didn't meet your lofty standards. I should've known not to get involved in a to and fro with you; I dont know what I was thinking you seem quite content to just stand on the sidelines and contribute nothing but 'smart' comments; picking at the semantics of one tiny piece of somebody's post and making fun of it; while leaving the topic at hand unaltered. Does this make you feel intellectually superior?

AS concerns the "topic at hand" I made my peace on the first page. Perhaps you read it already? Maybe not. I find portable amps to be a money pit, but I've absolutely no objection to any of you using and enjoying them. It's your money and time. There's no issue beyond that for me to debate here.

You can dig at my intentions all you please, but it's "quite literally" beyond me why you feel so strongly about defending something like a portable amplifier. I'm fighting you because I think the positions you're taking (about issues other than the "one at hand") are dumb, so I thought I'd poke logical holes in your arguments. Why are you fighting me?

 

[ZephyrSapphire]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luckyleo /img/forum/go_quote.gif Listen, I've a SR71A and consider it a portable. Why? I carry it in a man purse. I know it sounds strange, but it's true. I may get some strange looks, but it works. For me a Pico is as portable as is an SR71A, as Millet Hybryd as is an RSA P51. Transportability and great sound quality is what I need and what I have. I would recommend that anyone who needs/desires portability would be a fool to invest in a home rig. Period. If you're not there to hear it why set it up? Wake up guys. We're talking about apples and oranges. Why is that such a hard concept to accept, understand, and move on?

But not everyone uses a man purse, true? And most of us use our pockets, true? It's true that if someone needs portability, then they shouldn't invest in a home rig. But there are two types of portables now. Portables and transportables. Portables IMHO should at least be able to fit in your pockets without a hassle. The essence of portability has always been convenience. And if a portable isn't even convenient to fit inside a pocket, should we still label it as a portable?

This argument has gone out of hand IMHO. From no amps vs. amps to home amps vs. portable amps to portable amps vs. transportable amps.


IMHO, for those arguing about parts and such. If Dr. Xin can make great amps in very small packages, why can't the rest follow up?

Sound quality at the cost of an increased size, especially thickness is not worth it at all.

EDIT: Even Justin from Headamp can make something like the Pico for crying out loud!

 

[qusp]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sherwood /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think the positions you're taking (about issues other than the "one at hand") are dumb, so I thought I'd poke logical holes in your arguments. Why are you fighting me?

you just answered your own question with that statement. do you actually read what you write?

you seem to have totally missed my point; i'm not defending portable amps; in fact I stated more than once that if somebody designed a solution that rid me of the need to carry one I would use it. i'm defending my right to use one because it makes me feel happy and its a means to my ends. that was my issue with OP's attitude that apparently I should just see the error of my ways throw out all this stuff that brings me enjoyment. silly me how could I be so stupid; I should have seen it all along.

 

[Sherwood]

Quote:

Originally Posted by qusp /img/forum/go_quote.gif Do you actually read what you write?

Do you read what I write? It loses most of its meaning without the italicization, I think.

I never once assaulted your right to own a portable amp, or your reasons for doing so. Despite that, you keep defending your choice to me. I don't care what you do. Do whatever you like.

I disagreed with your stance on there being no objective opinions, and I voiced that in what I thought was a civil way. I later disagreed with your usage of the word "literally" when you meant exactly the opposite. I admit I was less civil then.

Your every response to me contains either personal vitriol or some windy defense of your reasoning behind owning a portable amp. Again, I don't care. There's no real need for me to continue being so untoward, however, so I'm perfectly happy to continue henceforth debating whether or not everyone who spends money on something other people don't like is, in fact, dumb.

As we were.

 

[Sherwood]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZephyrSapphire /img/forum/go_quote.gif EDIT: Even Justin from Headamp can make something like the Pico for crying out loud!

Justin from Headamp is a really talented builder. He's the only builder I can think of who has subjected himself to the physical and mental torture that is churning out BHSE units for anyone who wants to buy one. I'm reading this as your saying that if Justin can do it, anyone can. In my experience that is hardly true.