The purpose of this post is to be educational
Let's get to the summit of my portable (if it can even be called that anymore) hifi experience -
An iMod with an External v-cap dock (higher grade than the ALO portable v-cap) powered by either iQube or SR-71A, with a pair of APS V3 recabled Ultrasone Edition 9s (or HD600s for testing). The LOD(Line-out Dock) and mini-to-mini are a 22g jena / silver configuration.
(The Monster)
(Forgive my ugly mug - my displeasure with the rig results has distorted it horribly)
I have listened to several portable amps aside from these, as well, and normal iPod sound vs iMod and such, just about every variation you can concoct.
It all sounds really lame.
Let me move into the conclusions I've made in understanding the virility of the current portable hifi craze
How it is sustained:
Firstly, you have a lot of new people coming into hifi audio at all. They don't know anything. It's evident that there is a whole community out there revolving around this stuff and there must be something to it - and they are music lovers, curious about better sound (as the pursuit of a nice headphone likely drove them here to begin with). Chances are, it's someone younger than not, and someone with an iPod or Zune (or some pdap)
So the portable hifi possibility immediately appeals. It's way more convenient.. the size.. and the entry-level pricing is cheap! Plenty of popular sub $100 portable headphone amps. And LODs or Mini-to-Minis can be had for nearly scratch.
I think it's common that people see threads *like the "post your portable rig" and the idea of a portable rig seems less crazy.
Add in the reviews and raves from people that are often ignorant (lack of experience with much else gear, especially home gear) and/or are some of the token mega-reviewers here with a gigantic post count and tons of articulated impressions that leave a newb feeling like the person knows what they are talking about. A lot of these reviewers I think have a gap-filling addiction with some of this stuff and quite enjoy their position as reknowned reviewer of this or that. They're often off in their impressions, just outright crazy. And almost always fail to explain just how tiny any of the differences or aspects of portable components are (though this trend is not limited to portable hifi)
However, with portable hi-fi, you have a much fresher set of people with interest and I think they are more susceptable to all of these things.
I don't think it should be excluded that people also like to fit in. Just find the number of "______ owners unite!" kinds of threads or witness the ongoing interactions between people in long-running review threads for individual products.
We all, well, some people, tell us that everyone hears differently etc. It gets taken to such a baby-coddling degree that really anytime a person is displeased people on both sides are ready to write it off as not being their personal taste. It's like people aren't even thinking to question the integrity of the component, or any other possibilities outside of the idea of it just not being their taste. This kind of neutralizing should technically rule out every single impression we have here, then, as they are all personal experiences from people with varying personal tastes. Now how silly would that be?
Last thing to mention for this segment is that there is a very widespread distrust or outright phobia of anything "DIY". This is mostly fueled by not understanding what's in play - how it all works and is assembled. The reality is, most of the vendors we have here are just 1-2 man outfits who are DIYing but with a website and a proclaimed business entity. If it's not being streamlined like an iPod, it's DIY. Get over it. DIY is value. Your ears and your wallet will love you simultaneously for the first time since you got into this
---
Now, let's factor in some things pertaining to the products themselves
Pretty much every portable amp out there is a really really basic design. If the community here had any idea what the mark-up ratio was I think we'd start seeing better bang for our buck as the next manufacturers start becoming people competing with each other (or just knowing they can't get away with bs anymore) as opposed to being the next in line to offer a box full of 10% of what you're spending on it.
The portable amp boom from so many people - and so many units, let's you know just how lucrative an arena it is. And the ever-expanding portable amp price tags. Not that simply monitoring the level of activity and headcount in the portable forums won't do the job.
Oh, and the boom of LODs and their makers as well. You can see just how simple and cheap it is by the number of consistently-in-business DIYers we have here offering these things, often using the same materials
What's impractical about all of this is, well, where do I start:
The size? They are actually smaller than you would think from photos - often times. And yet, you suddenly realize how impractical the idea of taking this thing with you everywhere in addition to your PDAP is.
The weight? Often more than your PDAP itself - especially once you jam two 9volts or four AAAs in there. Oh, and they're too weighty for shirt pockets really - better not bend forward more than 45 degrees.
The shape? Hard corners and edges made out of metal. Be nice to your thighs.
Batteries? Having to buy some rechargables and a charger can get real pricy, real fast. At least half of the popular portable amps need AAs / AAAs or 9Vs. Let's mention how quickly these discharge and that they only last for so many cycles. And if you want the low discharge ones, you're paying even more. Hopefully I don't need to point out the impracticality of running through non-rechargables constantly.
The sound itself? Portable amps do not sound good. The closest thing to a portable amp that really begins getting the job done is the Lisa III. And the Lisa III weighs a lot, is huge, and takes one hour to charge for one hour to play. And it's also among the very top of the price range (though it dramatically slaughters all the portable amps in the price range around it) These amps are really basic designs that deliver really basic sound.
The price? You're mostly paying for a chassis and their profit. The components themselves are cheap. The R&D is often inexistent. The designing is far from complex. And with LODs, oh boy, the pricing on some of these for the near irrelevance of their role to the sound is staggering. Copper and silver are cheap. Real cheap. Especially 5-6 inches of it.
The price in relation to the sound? A portable amp is an amp that runs on batteries. But portable amps sound like poop. The size is relevant, and yet, most of them aren't even coming close to having their design maximized, or the space fully used. The level at which these are stomped by good home amp choices in the same price range is horrifying.
The fragility / wear & tear liability? Expensive stuff to be lugging around, in a pocket or elsewise. More than a few are accidentally pulled off of a surface top or dropped. Sometimes they break from this, too. Components like the jacks come loose. LODs are just begging to be destroyed in any kind of pocket or backpack environment. Especially if you have silver content - which plenty LODs do. They are also often very rigid - in the case of the 18g Jena cabling it's become frequent that the constant stress of the LOD reverting to a tension-free shape will break the jacks on these things.
The financial liability? Oops, you just lost your $500 portable rig. Oops, someone stole your $500 portable rig. Oops, your $500 portable rig just broke because it's made out of poop.
Is hifi sound even practical for a portable application? I'd actually readily say that it definitely can be. I myself love to go to a park and lay in the grass and really listen.. or zone out while on a car or train ride (headphone isolation can make things like trains relevantly practical for this kind of litsening). It is still worth mentioning, though, that probably most portable applications are not fit for hifi listening! Things like black background and microdetails (and the general idea of truly being immersed in the music to an extent that hearing it this well doesn't happen) are decimated by outside noise. Chances are you'd see a bigger boost in performance by getting better isolating headphones / IEMs. Are you actually going to be in a focused enough state while in portable application to where you won't be interrupted or taking your headphones off every 5-10 minutes, thus keeping immersion pretty absent?
A few other notes on some of the misleading or misunderstood things relevant to all of this fiasco. Spending $100, let alone $200 on an LOD is sillier than silly.
The iPod is really not a revealing enough of a source to be fretting over your interconnects. Nor is the rest of most any iPod rig going to be revealing enough for that.
And the difference would be so incredibly minimal, at best. To a point where you're MUCH better off spending that overpriced LOD money on a basic LOD and sinking the rest into a better pair of headphones - way more performance gain to be had in going that route.
The idea of spending that much money on nearly irrelevant parts of portable rig instead of upgrading the other components is nuts. Hell, you'd be better off spending that kind of money on a headphone recable - and that would still be pretty silly to do for a portable application. The difference is just so negligible to begin with, on the best of home setups - let alone on a comparatively incompetent portable setup. Also, if you think "cryo" means anything at all, or costs anything at all, you need to fix this.
Another point to mention - specifically with IEM recables ( and things like the koss ksc75) is that they often add significantly more weight to the cable, which can be a nuisance if not something to constantly loosen your fit.
The whole concept is also silly if you're neglecting the entirely free and quite substantial upgrade of using files with the absolute least or absolutely no compression (I'm a lossless guy myself - but PDAP space is very limited). Getting your ears cleaned is probably a significantly better value than most components in a portable setup, too.
Audio hifi is especially bad with the reality of diminishing returns. Portable hifi is the absolute worst with it.
My advice? act sensibly in accordance with the points I've made
I hardly am telling people to stop pursuing portable hifi. Chances are, though, you're better off with a pair of easily driven headphones ( if you're an IEM user, just get some UE11s and drop the amp and LOD) that cost your normal headphone price plus the added funds of skipping or selling the amp and LOD (or mini-to-mini).
I support the pursuit of the portable hifi, always will, but it needs to make the leap to where there is actually an audiophile dap with an audiophile amp all in a single unit. iBasso has a project of this going on right now but I'm not holding my breath - I imagine they will still compromise battery life / storage space - and it's far off, for those ready to take immediate interest, cool your horses
But it's progress, and tip of the hat to them for it.
Me? I'm reverting to a normal iPod with a pair of sennheiser PX 100s and/or a pair of sennheiser HD280 pros. I've been so content with the px 100s out of my ipod headphone out lately. I may go for a pair of Livewires or even UE11s someday. I'll save the real listening for a nice home rig. I'm going to be able to afford a rig that just indescribably destroys what my full-on iMod rig can do at current, for the same or less than what I've spent on it. I'll fund it all with the sale of this.
A lot of people are happy with the sound of their portable rig - I'm saying you could be a lot happier, and for even less price if you play the cards right.
I need to make a mention for PCDPs. There it is. Too many PCDPs, mostly older ones, outright destroy the audio quality of our PDAPs - whether by their headphone out or their line-out.
(PX 100s - these things just sound way too good for $30)
I would hope that more newcomers consider skipping the portable hifi sinkhole and getting to experience what headphone hifi is really about. Go to meets and experience gear, it's priceless and money-saving. And be careful about the hype on head-fi. We see several popular items of the month here and they're almost always a huge let-down, with what I've experienced so far.
I'm hardly a spoiled audiophile - I've not got any grand rigs or anything. What I've got is in the photos up there. I fund my audio quest with a measley $8.60 an hour - and I think a lot of other portable hifi consumers are also going with this option in the idea that it's the more affordable route to put your foot in the door with hearing some good sound. It's just not true. And even if you're a billionaire, why waste a cent of it?
If anyone has any questions, I'm here to help - feel free to PM me or get ahold of me via any of the messengers listed under my name at the top of the post
Thanks for reading
[size=xx-small]Quick infos:
PDAP = Portable Digital Audio Player
PCDP = Portable CD Player
LOD = Line-out Dock
Also, this thread has evolved a good amount now - please read through it before diving in![/size]
Let's get to the summit of my portable (if it can even be called that anymore) hifi experience -
An iMod with an External v-cap dock (higher grade than the ALO portable v-cap) powered by either iQube or SR-71A, with a pair of APS V3 recabled Ultrasone Edition 9s (or HD600s for testing). The LOD(Line-out Dock) and mini-to-mini are a 22g jena / silver configuration.
(The Monster)
(Forgive my ugly mug - my displeasure with the rig results has distorted it horribly)
I have listened to several portable amps aside from these, as well, and normal iPod sound vs iMod and such, just about every variation you can concoct.
It all sounds really lame.
Let me move into the conclusions I've made in understanding the virility of the current portable hifi craze
How it is sustained:
Firstly, you have a lot of new people coming into hifi audio at all. They don't know anything. It's evident that there is a whole community out there revolving around this stuff and there must be something to it - and they are music lovers, curious about better sound (as the pursuit of a nice headphone likely drove them here to begin with). Chances are, it's someone younger than not, and someone with an iPod or Zune (or some pdap)
So the portable hifi possibility immediately appeals. It's way more convenient.. the size.. and the entry-level pricing is cheap! Plenty of popular sub $100 portable headphone amps. And LODs or Mini-to-Minis can be had for nearly scratch.
I think it's common that people see threads *like the "post your portable rig" and the idea of a portable rig seems less crazy.
Add in the reviews and raves from people that are often ignorant (lack of experience with much else gear, especially home gear) and/or are some of the token mega-reviewers here with a gigantic post count and tons of articulated impressions that leave a newb feeling like the person knows what they are talking about. A lot of these reviewers I think have a gap-filling addiction with some of this stuff and quite enjoy their position as reknowned reviewer of this or that. They're often off in their impressions, just outright crazy. And almost always fail to explain just how tiny any of the differences or aspects of portable components are (though this trend is not limited to portable hifi)
However, with portable hi-fi, you have a much fresher set of people with interest and I think they are more susceptable to all of these things.
I don't think it should be excluded that people also like to fit in. Just find the number of "______ owners unite!" kinds of threads or witness the ongoing interactions between people in long-running review threads for individual products.
We all, well, some people, tell us that everyone hears differently etc. It gets taken to such a baby-coddling degree that really anytime a person is displeased people on both sides are ready to write it off as not being their personal taste. It's like people aren't even thinking to question the integrity of the component, or any other possibilities outside of the idea of it just not being their taste. This kind of neutralizing should technically rule out every single impression we have here, then, as they are all personal experiences from people with varying personal tastes. Now how silly would that be?
Last thing to mention for this segment is that there is a very widespread distrust or outright phobia of anything "DIY". This is mostly fueled by not understanding what's in play - how it all works and is assembled. The reality is, most of the vendors we have here are just 1-2 man outfits who are DIYing but with a website and a proclaimed business entity. If it's not being streamlined like an iPod, it's DIY. Get over it. DIY is value. Your ears and your wallet will love you simultaneously for the first time since you got into this
---
Now, let's factor in some things pertaining to the products themselves
Pretty much every portable amp out there is a really really basic design. If the community here had any idea what the mark-up ratio was I think we'd start seeing better bang for our buck as the next manufacturers start becoming people competing with each other (or just knowing they can't get away with bs anymore) as opposed to being the next in line to offer a box full of 10% of what you're spending on it.
The portable amp boom from so many people - and so many units, let's you know just how lucrative an arena it is. And the ever-expanding portable amp price tags. Not that simply monitoring the level of activity and headcount in the portable forums won't do the job.
Oh, and the boom of LODs and their makers as well. You can see just how simple and cheap it is by the number of consistently-in-business DIYers we have here offering these things, often using the same materials
What's impractical about all of this is, well, where do I start:
The size? They are actually smaller than you would think from photos - often times. And yet, you suddenly realize how impractical the idea of taking this thing with you everywhere in addition to your PDAP is.
The weight? Often more than your PDAP itself - especially once you jam two 9volts or four AAAs in there. Oh, and they're too weighty for shirt pockets really - better not bend forward more than 45 degrees.
The shape? Hard corners and edges made out of metal. Be nice to your thighs.
Batteries? Having to buy some rechargables and a charger can get real pricy, real fast. At least half of the popular portable amps need AAs / AAAs or 9Vs. Let's mention how quickly these discharge and that they only last for so many cycles. And if you want the low discharge ones, you're paying even more. Hopefully I don't need to point out the impracticality of running through non-rechargables constantly.
The sound itself? Portable amps do not sound good. The closest thing to a portable amp that really begins getting the job done is the Lisa III. And the Lisa III weighs a lot, is huge, and takes one hour to charge for one hour to play. And it's also among the very top of the price range (though it dramatically slaughters all the portable amps in the price range around it) These amps are really basic designs that deliver really basic sound.
The price? You're mostly paying for a chassis and their profit. The components themselves are cheap. The R&D is often inexistent. The designing is far from complex. And with LODs, oh boy, the pricing on some of these for the near irrelevance of their role to the sound is staggering. Copper and silver are cheap. Real cheap. Especially 5-6 inches of it.
The price in relation to the sound? A portable amp is an amp that runs on batteries. But portable amps sound like poop. The size is relevant, and yet, most of them aren't even coming close to having their design maximized, or the space fully used. The level at which these are stomped by good home amp choices in the same price range is horrifying.
The fragility / wear & tear liability? Expensive stuff to be lugging around, in a pocket or elsewise. More than a few are accidentally pulled off of a surface top or dropped. Sometimes they break from this, too. Components like the jacks come loose. LODs are just begging to be destroyed in any kind of pocket or backpack environment. Especially if you have silver content - which plenty LODs do. They are also often very rigid - in the case of the 18g Jena cabling it's become frequent that the constant stress of the LOD reverting to a tension-free shape will break the jacks on these things.
The financial liability? Oops, you just lost your $500 portable rig. Oops, someone stole your $500 portable rig. Oops, your $500 portable rig just broke because it's made out of poop.
Is hifi sound even practical for a portable application? I'd actually readily say that it definitely can be. I myself love to go to a park and lay in the grass and really listen.. or zone out while on a car or train ride (headphone isolation can make things like trains relevantly practical for this kind of litsening). It is still worth mentioning, though, that probably most portable applications are not fit for hifi listening! Things like black background and microdetails (and the general idea of truly being immersed in the music to an extent that hearing it this well doesn't happen) are decimated by outside noise. Chances are you'd see a bigger boost in performance by getting better isolating headphones / IEMs. Are you actually going to be in a focused enough state while in portable application to where you won't be interrupted or taking your headphones off every 5-10 minutes, thus keeping immersion pretty absent?
A few other notes on some of the misleading or misunderstood things relevant to all of this fiasco. Spending $100, let alone $200 on an LOD is sillier than silly.
The iPod is really not a revealing enough of a source to be fretting over your interconnects. Nor is the rest of most any iPod rig going to be revealing enough for that.
And the difference would be so incredibly minimal, at best. To a point where you're MUCH better off spending that overpriced LOD money on a basic LOD and sinking the rest into a better pair of headphones - way more performance gain to be had in going that route.
The idea of spending that much money on nearly irrelevant parts of portable rig instead of upgrading the other components is nuts. Hell, you'd be better off spending that kind of money on a headphone recable - and that would still be pretty silly to do for a portable application. The difference is just so negligible to begin with, on the best of home setups - let alone on a comparatively incompetent portable setup. Also, if you think "cryo" means anything at all, or costs anything at all, you need to fix this.
Another point to mention - specifically with IEM recables ( and things like the koss ksc75) is that they often add significantly more weight to the cable, which can be a nuisance if not something to constantly loosen your fit.
The whole concept is also silly if you're neglecting the entirely free and quite substantial upgrade of using files with the absolute least or absolutely no compression (I'm a lossless guy myself - but PDAP space is very limited). Getting your ears cleaned is probably a significantly better value than most components in a portable setup, too.
Audio hifi is especially bad with the reality of diminishing returns. Portable hifi is the absolute worst with it.
My advice? act sensibly in accordance with the points I've made
I support the pursuit of the portable hifi, always will, but it needs to make the leap to where there is actually an audiophile dap with an audiophile amp all in a single unit. iBasso has a project of this going on right now but I'm not holding my breath - I imagine they will still compromise battery life / storage space - and it's far off, for those ready to take immediate interest, cool your horses
But it's progress, and tip of the hat to them for it.
Me? I'm reverting to a normal iPod with a pair of sennheiser PX 100s and/or a pair of sennheiser HD280 pros. I've been so content with the px 100s out of my ipod headphone out lately. I may go for a pair of Livewires or even UE11s someday. I'll save the real listening for a nice home rig. I'm going to be able to afford a rig that just indescribably destroys what my full-on iMod rig can do at current, for the same or less than what I've spent on it. I'll fund it all with the sale of this.
A lot of people are happy with the sound of their portable rig - I'm saying you could be a lot happier, and for even less price if you play the cards right.
I need to make a mention for PCDPs. There it is. Too many PCDPs, mostly older ones, outright destroy the audio quality of our PDAPs - whether by their headphone out or their line-out.
(PX 100s - these things just sound way too good for $30)
I would hope that more newcomers consider skipping the portable hifi sinkhole and getting to experience what headphone hifi is really about. Go to meets and experience gear, it's priceless and money-saving. And be careful about the hype on head-fi. We see several popular items of the month here and they're almost always a huge let-down, with what I've experienced so far.
I'm hardly a spoiled audiophile - I've not got any grand rigs or anything. What I've got is in the photos up there. I fund my audio quest with a measley $8.60 an hour - and I think a lot of other portable hifi consumers are also going with this option in the idea that it's the more affordable route to put your foot in the door with hearing some good sound. It's just not true. And even if you're a billionaire, why waste a cent of it?
If anyone has any questions, I'm here to help - feel free to PM me or get ahold of me via any of the messengers listed under my name at the top of the post
Thanks for reading
[size=xx-small]Quick infos:
PDAP = Portable Digital Audio Player
PCDP = Portable CD Player
LOD = Line-out Dock
Also, this thread has evolved a good amount now - please read through it before diving in![/size]
