[WarriorAnt]

Quote:

 
LCD-2 bass seems weak at first, especially with loud tracks. That's because it lacks a mid-bass hump like 99% of headphones out there. When a track is mixed to have all mid-bass and no sub-bass, the LCD-2 will lack impact. When a track is mixed loud, the bass becomes one big noise and the LCD-2 shows it, while mid-bass humps clean it up. But when a track has well-mastered bass, which extends naturally into the sub-bass, it packs some wallop. Listen to some Rage Against the Machine. The first time I heard a track off their self-titled album, I thought the drivers were going to explode.

I'm going with head injury on this one.      
 

 

[WarriorAnt]

Quote:

I change my cables to Q-audio cables and it tightens the bass quite a bit.  I used to be disappointed with the bass from LCD-2 for rock music, but the cables does the job for me.  Cheers.
 
 

I noticed a tighter more defined bass with the Q cables also.  A bit more visceral impact as well.
 

 

[sesshin]

Quote:

There is no headphone in existence that can compete with a real subwoofer speaker setup.
 
Even the mighty Sony XB series cannot. 
 
If you want more bass on the LCD2s -- try the C&C X02 Mini. Or a Marantz 1090.
 

I'm not sure why you would suggest those amps. I already own the Pioneer SX-1250 and the Kenwood KR-9600. Quality amplification is not my problem.
 
Regarding headphones and subwoofers, its just my experience that the LCD-2s can't compete with dynamic closed cans in recreating the subwoofer experience. I've switched several pairs of headphones in and out of the same amps and DACs testing this. It always comes up the same. The LCD-2s have bass clarity at the expense of bass quantity. The closed cans have greater bass quantity and lack clarity.
 
So basically its pick your poison. Different headphones excel at different types of music. 

 

[Graphicism]

Quote:

Just because it's built into a DAC doesn't make it weak. CEntrance has more than enough power to drive the LCD-2. LCD-2 only need 80mW to hit 110dB, among other things like. The DACmini puts out 1.5W at some impedance, which is unspecified but probably 32ohms. More power won't do anything but turn the volume knob, which could just cause problems like channel imbalance. I can't find specifics on the DACmini's voltage or mA, but I doubt it's lacking. If your more powerful amps are adding bass, it's due to coloration or placebo, not wattage. Or so I've come to believe. If you want to prove me wrong, go ahead.
 
LCD-2 bass seems weak at first, especially with loud tracks. That's because it lacks a mid-bass hump like 99% of headphones out there. When a track is mixed to have all mid-bass and no sub-bass, the LCD-2 will lack impact. When a track is mixed loud, the bass becomes one big noise and the LCD-2 shows it, while mid-bass humps clean it up. But when a track has well-mastered bass, which extends naturally into the sub-bass, it packs some wallop. Listen to some Rage Against the Machine. The first time I heard a track off their self-titled album, I thought the drivers were going to explode.

Might not make it weak but doesn't make it a quality component. I'm sure the CEntrance like the Fiio's and countless computer soundcards have sufficient numbers on paper, but they rarely (RWA exception) stack up.  Isn't the CEntrance just another ROTM hybrid built around a $5 op-amp? Also I'm not talking about adding bass but extension and above all sound quality.
 
I totally agree with your mid-bass hump analysis, this is why I enjoy the DT880s and tell people the same thing about poorly mixed music. You could be right, it could all come down to the OPs preference for lingering-loose Denon-like bass, but while I enjoy hybrids for their price I think proper discrete solid-states and tube amps have much better SQ.
 
 
Quote:

Fixed this for you. 

No I was right the first time, I didn't consider it an amp. 

 

[nieveulv]

Guess before i get a better amp i need to play with EQ settings for now, cause the mids and highs of the LCD2 is really mind blowing..
 

 

[AudioRook]

Thank you. I'm getting sick of all the "get a better amp" comments when they clearly haven't even tried or looked over the amp being used. I'm glad someone can look through that and make posts like this with such good reasoning. 
 
Quote:

Just because it's built into a DAC doesn't make it weak. CEntrance has more than enough power to drive the LCD-2. LCD-2 only need 80mW to hit 110dB, among other things like. The DACmini puts out 1.5W at some impedance, which is unspecified but probably 32ohms. More power won't do anything but turn the volume knob, which could just cause problems like channel imbalance. I can't find specifics on the DACmini's voltage or mA, but I doubt it's lacking. If your more powerful amps are adding bass, it's due to coloration or placebo, not wattage. Or so I've come to believe. If you want to prove me wrong, go ahead.
 

 

 

[Graphicism]

Quote:

Thank you. I'm getting sick of all the "get a better amp" comments when they clearly haven't even tried or looked over the amp being used. I'm glad someone can look through that and make posts like this with such good reasoning. 
 

Since when did speculating equal reasoning?
 
Stick a proper amp behind them and quite your assumptions, there is a reason such amps exists.
 

 

[Mochan]

 
Quote:

I'm not sure why you would suggest those amps. I already own the Pioneer SX-1250 and the Kenwood KR-9600. Quality amplification is not my problem.
 
 

 
 
You're the one asking for an amp that would put the LCD2 into bass overdrive. I suggested two amps that I know for a fact have the bass power and have used to drive the LCD2 into very bassy territory -- though still nowhere competing with a subwoofer (like I said -- doesn't happen, no headphone, closed or open, anywhere in the world, can recreate a subwoofer or disco club experience).
 
 
If you feel your amps are already up to the task of giving the LCD2 the bass you were talking about, then I don't understand why you even asked the question.
 

 
Quote:

I'm currently on the look out for some amp combo that might kick the LCD-2s into overdrive in the bass department. Haven't tried the DACmini yet so can't comment on that.

 
 

 

[EddieE]

EDIT - Actually scratch that I can't be bothered.
 

 

[Head Injury]

Quote:

Might not make it weak but doesn't make it a quality component. I'm sure the CEntrance like the Fiio's and countless computer soundcards have sufficient numbers on paper, but they rarely (RWA exception) stack up.  Isn't the CEntrance just another ROTM hybrid built around a $5 op-amp? Also I'm not talking about adding bass but extension and above all sound quality.

Couple things:
 

1. Why wouldn't it "stack up" in real life? What is special about the LCD-2 that it requires considerably more power than is necessary to drive it to ear-splitting levels?
2. Why does the price of the opamp matter? Do you have specs on the opamp that shows it is inferior to a more expensive one?
3. The CEntrance is flat down to 20Hz. Another amp isn't going to add more extension. It's actually likely to roll it off, especially if it's a tube amp.
4. Define "sound quality" here. Why would a more powerful amp improve sound quality? If you mean coloration, it can do that but it shouldn't. LCD-2 is mostly immune to high output impedance, so can't boost the mid-bass with a tube amp like you can Sennheisers unless the tube amp is designed to be colored.
5. I'm currently driving the LCD-2 out of a sound card 
   

 
Quote:

Since when did speculating equal reasoning?
 
Stick a proper amp behind them and quite your assumptions, there is a reason such amps exists.

 

1. Aren't you speculating about the DACmini?
2. What is a proper amp? What defines a proper amp? I already said the DACmini provides plenty of power. Why is a separate amp "proper"?
3. Yes there's a reason high powered amps exist, and the reason is to sell, sell, sell.

 

[purrin]

The LCD2 is a mid-centric headphone. As someone said in a post above, it does not have any mid-bass hump. Zero. Nada. However, it does extend down low like crazy, better than any other headphone I've heard. It's ability to sustain bass - we are talking about real low bass here, not "boom boom" - is jaw droppingly amazing.
 
That being said, there are a number of tube or hybrid amps can bring out more dynamics, more slam, and more liveliness. The LCD2's nature is subdued, but when the recorded material calls out for it, the bass comes out like a tidal wave. But you will never get the "subwoofer" effect from the LCD2. If you want that, get a Denon D2000/5000/7000 or Darth Beyer.
 
The other possibility is to run the headphone with a sub. 

 

[Happy Camper]

Everybody was speculating that the Lyr was the ideal ticket for the HE-6. When it finally hit the masses, experience found it wasn't the solution the shills were making it out to be. LCDs have the most impact of any open headphone I've tried (limited). To call it weak is just wrong. You want more boom, use a sub. The open design will give them more rumble. Maybe a sub seat for HT systems. I'd prefer a tight, accurate bass to fart cannons but we all have our preferences. Sorry, snarky doesn't help but EQ and cable tweaks are about all you can do with the headphone. A heavy bass voiced source might get what you want but will be hard/rare to find. IMO

 

[purrin]

Quote:

Everybody was speculating that the Lyr was the ideal ticket for the HE-6. When it finally hit the masses, experience found it wasn't the solution the shills were making it out to be.

 Someone dared say it. 

 

 

[Graphicism]

Quote:

Couple things:
 

1. Why wouldn't it "stack up" in real life? What is special about the LCD-2 that it requires considerably more power than is necessary to drive it to ear-splitting levels?
2. Why does the price of the opamp matter? Do you have specs on the opamp that shows it is inferior to a more expensive one?
3. The CEntrance is flat down to 20Hz. Another amp isn't going to add more extension. It's actually likely to roll it off, especially if it's a tube amp.
4. Define "sound quality" here. Why would a more powerful amp improve sound quality? If you mean coloration, it can do that but it shouldn't. LCD-2 is mostly immune to high output impedance, so can't boost the mid-bass with a tube amp like you can Sennheisers unless the tube amp is designed to be colored.
5. I'm currently driving the LCD-2 out of a sound card 
   

1. Aren't you speculating about the DACmini?
2. What is a proper amp? What defines a proper amp? I already said the DACmini provides plenty of power. Why is a separate amp "proper"?
3. Yes there's a reason high powered amps exist, and the reason is to sell, sell, sell.

 

The cheapest way to convert the output to voltage is through an op-amp which destroys the sound quality, this is why the renowned amps are all-discrete and also why a good tube amp is cheaper than a good solid-state. All op-amp based amps and DACs can be 'improved' or 'tweaked' by switching out the op-amp, so in retrospect the op-amp is what you're listening too. In addition you say you're driving the LCD-2 directly from a soundcard, this is fine but you must know there are benefits to be had in amps and DACs; the STX is not the be-all and end-all in audio. I would hazard a guess you haven't compared the STX to say a WA22 with a discrete DAC, so where does this animosity towards separates derive from? How do you know you the LCD-2s are sufficiently powered? How do you know you're not missing a good chunk of sound quality through the built in op-amp based DAC of the STX?
 
The biggest mistake in thinking said headphones are sufficiently amped is volume, 'ear-splitting levels' means absolutely nothing. When a headphone is strained through insufficient amping there is a loss of body and overall sound quality which led to my suggestion of a better amp.

 

[Head Injury]

Quote:

The cheapest way to convert the output to voltage is through an op-amp which destroys the sound quality, this is why the renowned amps are all-discrete and also why a good tube amp is cheaper than a good solid-state. All op-amp based amps and DACs can be 'improved' or 'tweaked' by switching out the op-amp, so in retrospect the op-amp is what you're listening too. In addition you say you're driving the LCD-2 directly from a soundcard, this is fine but you must know there are benefits to be had in amps and DACs; the STX is not the be-all and end-all in audio. I would hazard a guess you haven't compared the STX to say a WA22 with a discrete DAC, so where does this animosity towards separates derive from? How do you know you the LCD-2s are sufficiently powered? How do you know you're not missing a good chunk of sound quality through the built in op-amp based DAC of the STX?
 
The biggest mistake in thinking said headphones are sufficiently amped is volume, 'ear-splitting levels' means absolutely nothing. When a headphone is strained through insufficient amping there is a loss of body and overall sound quality which led to my suggestion of a better amp.

Opamps are designed to be transparent. How do they "destroy" the sound quality? Please give me specifics, not vague one word descriptions.
 
I compared the STX to the DAC1. There was maybe a very slight loss of clarity from the higher noise floor (the STX's DAC is very, very clean, but the amp is a little noisier), but nothing I would be able to distinguish without seeing the component I'm plugged into. I would hazard a guess you haven't compared the STX to anything either, at least not objectively.
 
I know I'm not missing a good chunk of sound quality because all measurements I've seen (even on Stereophile!) suggest that the STX has a very flat frequency response (flat to 20Hz, -0.25dB at 20kHz), with low noise and distortion (nearly as good as the DAC1, which is one of if not the best DAC specs I've seen). And I know I'm not underpowering the LCD-2 because I have the volume at only 50%.
 
What defines "body and overall sound quality"? You keep dropping the term "sound quality", but never explain what it means or how a more powerful amp improves it at the same volume. My headphone is not strained at all, and neither is the OPs. There is an ample amount of overhead. I have plenty of bass. I hear no noise and no clipping.
 
You're not going to convince me with stuff like "improved sound quality". I hear way too much of that these days. Why does a headphone need more power than it can use? What is it specifically about another amp that will improve fidelity?
 
If I made a thread in the Sound Science forum about "Overkill amps", would you participate in discussion? I've been meaning to anyway, what with all the talk about the Objective2 amp.