LCD-X and XC Update
May 29, 2023 at 9:33 PM Post #2,491 of 2,721
People forget that besides distorting output and ruining particular phones "character" as intended by the manufacturer, with EQ you also pay heavy price by giving up on bit-perfect output and resorting to shared mode with OS kernel crappy resampling and volume control and all the junk audio output generated by other apps mixed into your track.
At least this is the case on PC with equalizer APO. It just amazes me that people invest such money into high end audio equipment just to feed that garbage into it.
Fascinating to learn about the different perspectives on this; I got the Qudelix 5K specifically to EQ with my LCD-XC and other cans, but never use it for that purpose as the sound always seems less to me... I've cycled through various versions (Resolve, ASR, Oratory, AutoEQ) and while I can appreciate aspects that each one brings (and very much appreciate the skill, time and generosity of each person who shares their profiles with us all) for some reason the unaltered sound just plays nicer with my ears... perhaps it is just my uneducated ears and with time and the ability to "dial it in" to my preferences that will change...
 
May 29, 2023 at 9:48 PM Post #2,492 of 2,721
Fascinating to learn about the different perspectives on this; I got the Qudelix 5K specifically to EQ with my LCD-XC and other cans, but never use it for that purpose as the sound always seems less to me... I've cycled through various versions (Resolve, ASR, Oratory, AutoEQ) and while I can appreciate aspects that each one brings (and very much appreciate the skill, time and generosity of each person who shares their profiles with us all) for some reason the unaltered sound just plays nicer with my ears... perhaps it is just my uneducated ears and with time and the ability to "dial it in" to my preferences that will change...
I don’t think so, I was in a similar position to you at one point, Not understanding what the fuss about EQ Was, it has to be the most overrated aspect of this hobby.

Maybe if a system is not optimised then the differences may not be as apparent but if you’re serious about getting the best sound I would just avoid it and focus on headphones where you do like the stock sound.
 
May 29, 2023 at 10:26 PM Post #2,493 of 2,721
I don’t think so, I was in a similar position to you at one point, Not understanding what the fuss about EQ Was, it has to be the most overrated aspect of this hobby.

Maybe if a system is not optimised then the differences may not be as apparent but if you’re serious about getting the best sound I would just avoid it and focus on headphones where you do like the stock sound.
Exactly, I like LCD-X for what they are and HD800 for completely different presentation they deliver, and not trying to make one out of another.
And as far as fixing what "sounds off", your hearing will do it for you just fine, just give it some time and any headphone that sounds bright at first will tame over time, or bass anemic one will develop some low grunt. Psychoacoustics is a wonderful thing with brain adjusting our perception of the sound, acting as a natural equalizer.
 
May 29, 2023 at 11:00 PM Post #2,494 of 2,721
Why would you lie? it is so easy to catch you.

https://www.head-fi.org/goto/post?id=17581184


Your wording and sentence structure is just terrible then. Those are like two completely different thoughts in all those sentences and feel like two completely separate points.

And nobody said EQ is a magic wand, you are talking to yourself. It just happens to be that with some headphones, they really respond well to EQ. And planars, and certain planar models, are extremely well known for that. Including the LCDX's

My 109pro and NDH-30 do not respond as well to heavy EQ'ing to me, but they can respond well to a more deft and lighter touch EQ'ing. But the LCD-X, strong EQ'ing is amazing. And it's not just me, but in my hours and hours of research of these cans before buying, and being in LCDX disussions since, it's the widest accepted opinion, by people who have all sorts of experience with high end audio.
 
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May 29, 2023 at 11:03 PM Post #2,495 of 2,721
Exactly, I like LCD-X for what they are and HD800 for completely different presentation they deliver, and not trying to make one out of another.
And as far as fixing what "sounds off", your hearing will do it for you just fine, just give it some time and any headphone that sounds bright at first will tame over time, or bass anemic one will develop some low grunt. Psychoacoustics is a wonderful thing with brain adjusting our perception of the sound, acting as a natural equalizer.

That's great for you. Except it is quite well known that the LCDX respond very well to EQ. There is no purity war as to what way is the purist way to enjoy sound out of certain headphones. The LCDX are a set of cans that EQ extremely well. They are pretty good to me with no EQ, but ****ing mind-blowing with a decent bit of EQ'ing. Other headphones of mine are just great closest to a stock sound, and don't respond well to a decent bit of EQ'ing, but to just a little or none at all.

But I am not on some religious journey about what is the most pure and correct way to enjoy music is in regards to all the types and models of headphones mixed with EQ or not.

I don’t think so, I was in a similar position to you at one point, Not understanding what the fuss about EQ Was, it has to be the most overrated aspect of this hobby.

Maybe if a system is not optimised then the differences may not be as apparent but if you’re serious about getting the best sound I would just avoid it and focus on headphones where you do like the stock sound.

That's your own problem that you admittedly didn't understand something and seemingly still don't, not our problem.

Also, see above.
 
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May 29, 2023 at 11:07 PM Post #2,496 of 2,721
if you’re serious about getting the best sound I would just avoid it and focus on headphones where you do like the stock sound.
Sound like good advice and the way I am going for now- even if my wallet is in hard disagreement!
 
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May 29, 2023 at 11:11 PM Post #2,497 of 2,721
Sound like good advice and the way I am going for now- even if my wallet is in hard disagreement!

It's ignorant advice not good advice. There are 8 billion pairs of ears in the world, it's ok that so many of us will not think a stock sound is perfect out of the infinitely smaller amount of headphones out there compared to pairs of ears. Just keep in mind there are no set rules like the purists have.

Some headphones will sound better stock than others. Some don't EQ well. Some do. Everything is on a very case by case basis in that regard. If you have the LCD-X, you have a pair that is widely known to EQ excellently, by people with lots of experience in high end audio. So just do it and enjoy it until you find the sound you like.
 
May 30, 2023 at 12:00 AM Post #2,498 of 2,721
so we know the LCD-x21 has a great ability to apply EQ..... so what would you say to having a DSP that took the stock FR sweep and recorded it and then DSP EQ applied that perfectly flattened out the headphones FR..... and what if there was a data base where you liked a particular headphone model and how it sounds to YOUR ears.... and you applied the DSP EQ to the LCD-x21 and it emulated that particular headphone model you liked... or you could choose from a whole selection of different headphones or speakers and applied that to the LCD-x21 via the DSP EQ... then you could have hundreds of headphones to chose from or speaker systems to chose from... and what if your own hearing wasn't matched from your left ear to your right ear in FR... and the DSP could record your hearing and correct the hearing so both ears would match the FR.... hmmm.... would EQ then be a good option.... sure it would... and it is a good option to have...
 
May 30, 2023 at 12:53 AM Post #2,499 of 2,721
On 21 model "mandatory" EQ. This is straight from from Resolve's list

NO EQ TIER - I recommend all of these

. . .

10. Audeze LCD-X 2021 - Neutral-Warmish but still somewhat esoteric upper mids
While it’s not perfect, the 2021 pad update made significant improvements for the LCD-X, to the point where even without EQ I don’t feel like its technical performance is being held back or prevented from coming through all that much.

The biggest problem with EQ is all that garbage that you bring along as there is no way to do it cleanly without damaging original track.
Anyway, different ways of enjoying this hobby. The right that is right and left that is wrong. :smile:
 
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May 30, 2023 at 2:39 AM Post #2,500 of 2,721
People forget that besides distorting output and ruining particular phones "character" as intended by the manufacturer, with EQ you also pay heavy price by giving up on bit-perfect output and resorting to shared mode with OS kernel crappy resampling and volume control and all the junk audio output generated by other apps mixed into your track.
At least this is the case on PC with equalizer APO. It just amazes me that people invest such money into high end audio equipment just to feed that garbage into it.
So...

You are capable to distinguish a bit-perfect output for other not bit-perfect?

That's a real nice ability.

About EQ, I always like a little bit of punch on my planars, so... Why not give them a bit of db on subbass? Or maybe take the highs down for a relaxed listening?

In music, the only real upgrade is achieve "your" best way to enjoy it.

Also, XC or Arya v2, are really nice to EQ'd
 
May 30, 2023 at 6:51 AM Post #2,501 of 2,721
EQ is a tool!
It can be abused, but when required it should be used. To arbitrarily use it everywhere or nowhere is not logical.
Unfortunately, because it is such an easy tool to use, it has become a sort of Toy to some people. Nothing wrong with that, everybody is free to do what they like to their sound to suit them.
Manufacturer's sound, originality, etc. does not come into it. I like a warmer sound, my brother likes a brighter sound, who's to say which one is wrong or right, that argument is false.
However, to blindly apply large amounts of EQ, because a certain graph or post says so, is madness.
To begin with, the Harman curve is an approximation! derived by collecting data from a bunch of listeners and their Preferences! It is unlike a flat frequency response of an amp or a DAC, where actual output can be accurately measured.
Seasoned headphone reviewers, do provide data regarding the seal and its effects (not the same on every headphone), positioning, etc. Meaning, even they have difficulty in reproducing a certain FR curve, accurately, for the same headphones in two consecutive days. Hell, even I couldn't do it on my modest rig (miniDSP EARS)! Move the headphones a few millimetres and the FR curve changes.
- Don't go precisely by any FR curve.
They are all approximates, by up to +/-2dB for sure. That is from 100Hz up to about 3kHz! outside that range, the deviations are much larger.
- Back to EQ, It has pitfalls!
Music energy is not equal across audio band. Most of the energy is in the lowest octaves, BASS. from there on, it takes a nose dive.

The-upper-panels-show-the-mean-power-spectral-density-as-a-function-of-linear-frequency.png


You can see that past the first couple of hundred hertz, it is down by 20/40dB and keeps going down, depending on content
Add to that, almost all headphones have the highest distortion patterns at same frequencies.

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Increase the Bass frequencies, you massively increase distortions!
But that's not all. Since bass frequencies have the largest levels in music, when converted to digital, there is not much digital headroom there, so if you use a digital EQ (almost always) you can also push it into digital clip.
So anybody who knows anything about proper EQing, knows that if you EQ up, you need to apply preamp cut.
That is not accurate!
Preamp cut becomes necessary, only if you EQ the lower frequencies, past a few hundred hertz, there is plenty of headroom to EQ up.
Preamp cut also has an issue. These days with power hungry headphones, and clean max. available-power from amps at a premium, means if you do a preamp cut of just 3dB, then your 1W lovely amp, gets limited to 0.5W amp.
Those who advocate 6dB or more bass EQ, with the same preamp cut, will need an amp four times the max. power, and at higher levels (if they even get there) have to deal with massively elevated bass distortions.
Use EQ sparingly.
 
May 30, 2023 at 9:38 AM Post #2,503 of 2,721
So...

You are capable to distinguish a bit-perfect output for other not bit-perfect?

That's a real nice ability.

About EQ, I always like a little bit of punch on my planars, so... Why not give them a bit of db on subbass? Or maybe take the highs down for a relaxed listening?

In music, the only real upgrade is achieve "your" best way to enjoy it.

Also, XC or Arya v2, are really nice to EQ'd
The problem is though when you EQ your signal is no longer bit perfect, it has gone through a digital process.

It’s like DSP room correction for a speaker setup, if that was the answer no one would bother with room treatment and correct positioning of the speakers.
 
May 30, 2023 at 9:41 AM Post #2,504 of 2,721
So...

You are capable to distinguish a bit-perfect output for other not bit-perfect?

That's a real nice ability.

About EQ, I always like a little bit of punch on my planars, so... Why not give them a bit of db on subbass? Or maybe take the highs down for a relaxed listening?

In music, the only real upgrade is achieve "your" best way to enjoy it.

Also, XC or Arya v2, are really nice to EQ'd
If you like the sound of EQ then stick with it I guess.

But you must understand that from a technical standpoint you are degrading sound quality.
 
May 30, 2023 at 10:36 AM Post #2,505 of 2,721
If you like the sound of EQ then stick with it I guess.

But you must understand that from a technical standpoint you are degrading sound quality.
From a technical standpoint data pass for a lot of filters, before u even activate bit perfect. But this is not a forum to talk about science.

And I really doubt the ability of the audiophile to distinguish bit-perfect from no-bit-perfect.

So, everyone pick the best way to enjoy music.
 

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