[Zombie_X]

You know..
 
I had listed my 8400's for sale as they weren't doing it for me anymore, but now after I added foam under the ear pads, I have to say I might reconsider. The added bass is really welcomed and in turn reduces the too prominent highs. I think there's more treble than bass and midrange with this headphone, so much so that the headphone sounds overly bright and thin. After adding the foam (from a Grado pizza box) the sound came more into focus. Bass guitars had body, bass drums had kick, and the whole sound was smoother and fuller. The mids also came forward a bit.

 

[avoshake]

Quote:

You know..
 
I had listed my 8400's for sale as they weren't doing it for me anymore, but now after I added foam under the ear pads, I have to say I might reconsider. The added bass is really welcomed and in turn reduces the too prominent highs. I think there's more treble than bass and midrange with this headphone, so much so that the headphone sounds overly bright and thin. After adding the foam (from a Grado pizza box) the sound came more into focus. Bass guitars had body, bass drums had kick, and the whole sound was smoother and fuller. The mids also came forward a bit.

Could you detail to me how much foam/what density material would achieve the same mod as you've done?

Also I've noticed you own the HD600, it'd be a lot of help if you could did a quick comparison of the two for me. I'm looking into getting an open phone and HD600 is on the top of my list...

 

[Zombie_X]

Hi,
 
I don't know the density or what type of foam it is, but it was from a Grado pizza box. It's not super dense but works well. The paper towel tricks muddies the bass and it does get a little bloated. I think the foam lets the driver "breathe" more so the sound in turn isn't so bassy. It seems the bass is boosted equal to the paper towel, but lacks the muddiness and bloat. I'd say it's a nice improvement.
 
The HD600 sounds vastly different from the KNS-8400. The KRK is not warm but is rather neutral with a pretty bright presentation with not much meat on the bones. It sounds like a more bass light and brighter version of a K702. The HD600 is a lot warmer and the treble is really shelved down in direct comparison. The HD600 may sound slurred or blurry but it isn't. You're just used to the tippy treble of the KNS-8400. Also the HD600 has a much warmer midrange, so much so that the 8400 sounds thin and a tad recessed. The bass is the biggest difference to me. The HD600 sounds much more boomy and it has much more body in the bass than the KNS-8400 does. The bass isn't boomy but there's so much more of it that it may shock you. The soundstage is massive in comparison to the KNS-8400 as it does sound small.
 
Hopefully that's enough info for you. If you have more questions let me know.
 
I have some of the foam left but I am not sure if it's enough for you. I'll see how much I have left exactly.
 
 
Quote:

Could you detail to me how much foam/what density material would achieve the same mod as you've done?

Also I've noticed you own the HD600, it'd be a lot of help if you could did a quick comparison of the two for me. I'm looking into getting an open phone and HD600 is on the top of my list...

 

[avoshake]

Quote:

Hi,
 
I don't know the density or what type of foam it is, but it was from a Grado pizza box. It's not super dense but works well. The paper towel tricks muddies the bass and it does get a little bloated. I think the foam lets the driver "breathe" more so the sound in turn isn't so bassy. It seems the bass is boosted equal to the paper towel, but lacks the muddiness and bloat. I'd say it's a nice improvement.
 
The HD600 sounds vastly different from the KNS-8400. The KRK is not warm but is rather neutral with a pretty bright presentation with not much meat on the bones. It sounds like a more bass light and brighter version of a K702. The HD600 is a lot warmer and the treble is really shelved down in direct comparison. The HD600 may sound slurred or blurry but it isn't. You're just used to the tippy treble of the KNS-8400. Also the HD600 has a much warmer midrange, so much so that the 8400 sounds thin and a tad recessed. The bass is the biggest difference to me. The HD600 sounds much more boomy and it has much more body in the bass than the KNS-8400 does. The bass isn't boomy but there's so much more of it that it may shock you. The soundstage is massive in comparison to the KNS-8400 as it does sound small.
 
Hopefully that's enough info for you. If you have more questions let me know.
 
I have some of the foam left but I am not sure if it's enough for you. I'll see how much I have left exactly.
 
 

Thanks a lot Zombie_X (if that's what I should refer to you as),

I actually live in Brisbane, Australia, so I appreciate the offer for the foam but it'd be just a LITTLE too much effort for some pieces of foam . The KNS-8400 has been my first headphone and I've had it for 6 months and have been enjoying it (particularly the clarity of the mids with guitars and presentation of drums). I always found the bass to be lacking in presence even though I can tell it's pretty tight. Unfortunately there really isn't anywhere near me I can try out different headphones.

So asides from my perceived lack of bass presence, I'm looking towards tasting an open headphones sound. I find having closed ones can be a bit suffocating for me and I'd definitely appreciate a decent soundstage. Your feedback was encouraging in regards to the bass presence but what I found most interesting was your notes on the mids. I was worried I'd potentially lose the nice midrange in the KNS-8400 with other headphones with more recessed mids. It really sounds like the HD600 has all my worries assuaged and also the attributes I'm looking for in an upgrade.
 
Just a couple more questions. What is the comfort like on the HD600 and how hard are they to drive? At the moment all I have is a FiiO e17, would it sound veiled/a lot worse with such an amp?

Really appreciate the help

 

[Zombie_X]

Hi,
 
The HD600 is pretty comfortable but if you have a big head they will end up having a clamp to them. I have a "in between" size head and I never get clamping. The headband and ear pads are really soft and are quite comfortable.
 
They aren't as hard to drive as many would say. Also they don't really have a veil. Getting back to driving them, they use an aluminum voice coil which is lighter than the standard copper coil, but does seem to require more power to flex. The HD600 can be driven from your FiiO E17 nicely. Don't let the thought of monster amps scare you off. The HD600, even when under powered, will outperform the KNS-8400. It doesn't sound bad unamped like many claim as well.
 
I sue mine a lot right out of my Zune HD and have zero complaints. Now they aren't perfect unamped as detail, transients, and overall control will be lacking. It's not major though, so don't think it will be a night and day difference when amped and not amped.
 
 
Quote:

Thanks a lot Zombie_X (if that's what I should refer to you as),

I actually live in Brisbane, Australia, so I appreciate the offer for the foam but it'd be just a LITTLE too much effort for some pieces of foam . The KNS-8400 has been my first headphone and I've had it for 6 months and have been enjoying it (particularly the clarity of the mids with guitars and presentation of drums). I always found the bass to be lacking in presence even though I can tell it's pretty tight. Unfortunately there really isn't anywhere near me I can try out different headphones.

So asides from my perceived lack of bass presence, I'm looking towards tasting an open headphones sound. I find having closed ones can be a bit suffocating for me and I'd definitely appreciate a decent soundstage. Your feedback was encouraging in regards to the bass presence but what I found most interesting was your notes on the mids. I was worried I'd potentially lose the nice midrange in the KNS-8400 with other headphones with more recessed mids. It really sounds like the HD600 has all my worries assuaged and also the attributes I'm looking for in an upgrade.
 
Just a couple more questions. What is the comfort like on the HD600 and how hard are they to drive? At the moment all I have is a FiiO e17, would it sound veiled/a lot worse with such an amp?

Really appreciate the help

 

[ansmi]

When KNS8400 is underpowered, it sounds extremely thin... If you're at a busy places (exp: subway), you pretty much won't hear much from the bass and when you turn it up, the highs are just too harsh. Music choices make a huge difference as well.
 
I Just posted my own KNS8400 review : ) hope you guys could check it out !
http://www.head-fi.org/t/618534/krk-kns-8400-review

 

[electropop]

Quote:

When KNS8400 is underpowered, it sounds extremely thin... If you're at a busy places (exp: subway), you pretty much won't hear much from the bass and when you turn it up, the highs are just too harsh. Music choices make a huge difference as well.
 
I Just posted my own KNS8400 review : ) hope you guys could check it out !
http://www.head-fi.org/t/618534/krk-kns-8400-review

 
Even when underpowered, it doesn't remove that mid-bass boost that veils it a bit. I wanted them to be more precise, not less thin. Mid-range is excellent though. 
 
I believe Tyll's isolation measurements show more of the reason you can't hear bass frequencies in loud environments rather than the headphone's music reproduction qualities. 

 

[Lorspeaker]

i used the KnS8400 much like a portable..cos its v light n hardy. gotten used to the thin clear sound after awhile. liked it.
then came along the boseAE2i...it sounded pretty much alike cept with more balance, less thin highs, abit more bass body.
same memory comfy cups, smaller n foldable...so i tot i prefer the Bose as the bringalongCan...and i got it for usd100. so no complaints.
 
HD600 is to me, one of the best buys in headfi...midtier.
balanced, comfortable...not too expensive. and i plan on staying in midfi-zone. 

 

[tdockweiler]

Quote:

When KNS8400 is underpowered, it sounds extremely thin... If you're at a busy places (exp: subway), you pretty much won't hear much from the bass and when you turn it up, the highs are just too harsh. Music choices make a huge difference as well.
 
I Just posted my own KNS8400 review : ) hope you guys could check it out !
http://www.head-fi.org/t/618534/krk-kns-8400-review

 
I think this could very well be true. I should test this out tonight. I noticed that for gaming when I used them with my Turtle Beach DSS (5.1 off!) I need to nearly max the volume.
 
Mid bass hump on the 8400? Never heard it...it's much worse on the V6 and HD-600. Believe it or not I've found the 6400 to have much more mid-bass and less sub-bass. 6400 is also a little thinner sounding.
 
Despite that 10ohm output the E9 does very well with the KRK KNS-8400! Even better than the E11 and doesn't mess with it's sound.
 
On any amp I still find the treble on the 8400 a tad fatiguing sometimes. I just need to keep the volume a little lower than normal. I think it even has more treble than the Q701!
 
I actually think the KRK KNS8400 would be close to sound like a closed Q701. When comparing the two in Skyrim I was surprised how similar they sounded.

 

[electropop]

Quote:

 
I think this could very well be true. I should test this out tonight. I noticed that for gaming when I used them with my Turtle Beach DSS (5.1 off!) I need to nearly max the volume.
 
Mid bass hump on the 8400? Never heard it...it's much worse on the V6 and HD-600. Believe it or not I've found the 6400 to have much more mid-bass and less sub-bass. 6400 is also a little thinner sounding.
 
Despite that 10ohm output the E9 does very well with the KRK KNS-8400! Even better than the E11 and doesn't mess with it's sound.
 
On any amp I still find the treble on the 8400 a tad fatiguing sometimes. I just need to keep the volume a little lower than normal. I think it even has more treble than the Q701!
 
I actually think the KRK KNS8400 would be close to sound like a closed Q701. When comparing the two in Skyrim I was surprised how similar they sounded.

 
How do you recognize alterations in frequency response? 

 

[tdockweiler]

Quote:

 
How do you recognize alterations in frequency response? 

 
 
I hate to tell you this..but most people use their ears

 
If you think it sounds different than I'm hearing it than OK. I don't think anyone will hear the same headphone the same.
There's people here that actually call the HD-650 too bright or the HD-600 too thin sounding

 
There may be a tiny mid-bass hump compared to being perfectly neutral, but it just doesn't stick out for me.
 
The graphs of the KRKs are pretty different than what i'm hearing.
 
IMO if someone wanted a nice mid-bass hump, I'd definitely not suggest any of the KRKs. The HD-650 or even the HD-600 would do the trick I imagine.
 
Mid-bass humps are the most annoying thing in the world to me. My idea of one that sticks out is the MDR-7506. I don't even think graphs show it to have one. The SRH-840 definitely does too.

 

[electropop]

Quote:

 
 
I hate to tell you this..but most people use their ears

 
If you think it sounds different than I'm hearing it than OK. I don't think anyone will hear the same headphone the same.
There's people here that actually call the HD-650 too bright or the HD-600 too thin sounding

 
There may be a tiny mid-bass hump compared to being perfectly neutral, but it just doesn't stick out for me.
 
The graphs of the KRKs are pretty different than what i'm hearing.
 
IMO if someone wanted a nice mid-bass hump, I'd definitely not suggest any of the KRKs. The HD-650 or even the HD-600 would do the trick I imagine.
 
Mid-bass humps are the most annoying thing in the world to me. My idea of one that sticks out is the MDR-7506. I don't even think graphs show it to have one. The SRH-840 definitely does too.

 
No, it doesn't stick out horribly much. But it's also relatively slow and makes frequency transitions like slides found in complex melodies a bit annoying to hear. Not the worst bass, definitely not. But compared to K550, K271 or DT1350's it stands out really bad, no matter what any measurement say. 
Relatively speaking, I guess a transition from the K550, or any other headphone that's "smooth down there", to the 8400 would be like going from HD650 to an annoyingly bass heavy Ultrasone. Relatively speaking... 
 
Let me ask you again: How do you recognize alterations in frequency response MINUS the loophole for a somewhat patronizing comment 

What I obviously meant was that what is it in the music or test tones (whatever floats your boat) do you specifically listen to come to these conclusions? I don't mean to put you under the spotlight, this is only for the sake of discussion and I don't claim to have the right answer. 

 

[Lorspeaker]

Hi,

I don't know the density or what type of foam it is, but it was from a Grado pizza box. It's not super dense but works well. The paper towel tricks muddies the bass and it does get a little bloated. I think the foam lets the driver "breathe" more so the sound in turn isn't so bassy. It seems the bass is boosted equal to the paper towel, but lacks the muddiness and bloat. I'd say it's a nice improvement.

The HD600 sounds vastly different from the KNS-8400. The KRK is not warm but is rather neutral with a pretty bright presentation with not much meat on the bones. It sounds like a more bass light and brighter version of a K702. The HD600 is a lot warmer and the treble is really shelved down in direct comparison. The HD600 may sound slurred or blurry but it isn't. You're just used to the tippy treble of the KNS-840 and the HD600 has a much warmer midrange, so much so that the 8400 sounds thin and a tad recessed. The bass is the biggest difference to me. The HD600 sounds much more boomy and it has much more body in the bass than the KNS-8400 does. The bass isn't boomy but there's so much more of it that it may shock you. The soundstage is massive in comparison to the KNS-8400 as it does sound

I like this post....well described to my experience with both cans.

 

[Jodiuh]

These are great headphones, but I only need one closed headphone and I'm thinking the 940's would be a better option all around. Still, the detail retrieval for the $130 I paid is amazing. It just really lacks that low end quantity.

 

[electropop]

Quote:

It just really lacks that low end quantity.

 
Really?
 
People must really like bass.