[mbamg]

Quote:

Travis,
 
I never claimed you said they were $300, I was agreeing with the other user that they weren't worth that much. Also I'm not the only one who's heard this dip in the mids. I think it was beagle that heard it as well and it's obviously there. I'm not even going to argue as it's true, these have some odd dip that make vocals sound off. One thing that sounds good on these phones is Trans Siberian Orchestra. They sound great on here.
 
Now, I still stand by my statement about amping. They DO NOT need it. They sound great out of everything I have tried and amping has made minimal difference in the sound. Maybe some added tightness and focus to the bass, but it's not game changing. I know you feel strongly about it but I can not agree with it. My advise to members is try it without an amp and decide for yourself. 
 
The DJ100 is bass heavy to my ears. It easily has more bass than the 8400, which I own, and is not of the same quality. The 8400 may not have a ton of bass but it's exceptional quality for the price. To me the DJ100 sounds a tad muddy in the bass with roll off in the lower registers. It also has emphasized mid-bass and lower midrange. The treble is there but somewhat soft and lacks extension and detail.
 
If you're saying they are on par with the HD600 then that isn't the case. They are far below that. Sorry man but this headphone just isn't as good as you claim it is. It's not even about sound signature preference. I go by performance and if your are ranking in at $100, I'd say you give the headphone too much credit. These are exceptional for $50, great for $60, and overpriced at retail. That's just how it is. I'm not hating on them, but they get too much credit.
 
EDIT:
And the PRO4AAAT does have very rigid drivers and they sound stiff. I swear that titanium coating makes them sound like tin and this is the only case in which I somewhat believe in burn in. That stuff needs to flex. In theory it should flex, loosen up, and the sound should become smoother. At least it did for me. Not a whole lot but it did. 

 

 
They sound vastly different with my CMoy. Enough of a game changer for me. Sometimes I feel like I'm listening to a different pair of headphones, and not in a bad sense. I agree there's some dips in the frequency range that causes peculiarities.
 
Since this is my only pair of headphones atm I can't say how this matches up to the ones that have been mentioned so far, but for someone who has never spent more than $70 for iems or headphones, these are pretty damn good. I suppose if I listen to more refined headphones I would be able to pick on on the other flaws that you've described, but so far these are as good as it gets for me. The thing is, I don't listen to many songs that aren't J-Pop and don't have female vocals.
 
Including the CMoy and the short cord that I purchased I've spent around $101 total on my setup.

 

[tdockweiler]

Quote:

Travis,
 
I never claimed you said they were $300, I was agreeing with the other user that they weren't that much. Also I'm not the only one who's heard this dip in the mids. I think it was beagle that heard it as well and it's obviously there. I'm not even going to argue as it's true, these have some odd dip that make vocals sound off. One thing that sounds good on these phones is Trans Siberian Orchestra. They sound great on here.
 
Now, I still stand by my statement about amping. They DO NOT need it. They sound great out of everything I have tried and amping has made minimal difference in the sound. Maybe some added tightness and focus to the bass, but it's not game changing. I know you feel strongly about it but I can not agree with it. My advise to members is try it without an amp and decide for yourself. 
 
The DJ100 is bass heavy to my ears. It easily has more bass than the 8400, which I own, and is not of the same quality. The 8400 may not have a ton of bass but it's exceptional quality for the price. To me the DJ100 sounds a tad muddy in the bass with roll off in the lower registers. It also has emphasized mid-bass and lower midrange. The treble is there but somewhat soft and lacks extension and detail.
 
The DJ100 as a whole is warm, forward, forgiving, and bassy.

 
You say it's true, so it must be true right? As in fact. We'll agree to disagree. If I heard it I'm willing to admit to it. I haven't. I always love to pick apart and criticize my favorite headphones when I can. I already do that enough with my 598 and 8400. If I had any issues with vocals of any kind they're be in the dumpster. You seem to be contradicting yourself. I remember the old Beagle posts and you then tried the O2 with the DJ100 and said you didn't hear any such dip in the mids but cymbals sounded a bit bright. I only remember this because you had gone to the Koss store for testing them. No big deal and if you heard it, you heard it. It's not hard to have a recording make it sound like it has some sort of dip in the vocal area. If you listen to the Tony Bennett free album, you can get that impression with one song, but it sounds the same on the HD-600!
 
Female vocals are quite forward, never ever distant for me (unless it's in the recording). I don't know if you know this, but vocals (especially female) are my highest priority when it comes to sound. All my headphones I have are great for them (IMO). I'm a huge fan of some Cantopop and even Jpop (most of it I can's stand though).
 
Maybe with a poor seal on stock pads this drop off could exist for some. I remember when Tyll measured his pair he said he had a hard time getting a good seal. I wish I could bribe him to measure the DJ100 with M50 pads.
 
I like how you said the DJ100 is bass heavy. Thanks for that

After hearing it being called bass light I prefer to hear this! My impression has always been that it's very slightly above neutral bass, but has better than average low-bass extension and no mid-bass hump.
Do you think they have more bass than your HD-600? I don't. My HD-600 is much warmer too and has slightly fuller mids.
 
Wow, I 100% agree with the last part.

I actually think the DJ100 for me isn't too forward. It's lower mids are less forward than the PX100-II, Panasonic HTF-600 and Philips Downtown (IMO). The upper mids on the 225i are far more forward.
 
Maybe that slight dip is instead in the lower treble (I guess you didn't specify where it occurred)? That sounds more likely. Someone one said the DJ100 had slightly attenuated treble and accentuated upper treble! Not sure about that one.
The DJ100 for me is NOT forgiving of bit-rate and specific poor recordings. When it IS forgiving it's the recordings that sound as if the mids and treble are cranked to MAX in the studio. Sort of like how you would hear these on the HD-600.
The harsh and fatiguing tracks are made slightly more bearable on the DJ100. I find the DJ100 easy on the ears with garbage tracks that are harsh and fatiguing. The Japanese singer "Hitomi" is one example. Her stuff is painful on my Q701 sometimes.

 

[NujaBlessed]

Quote:

 

 
They sound vastly different with my CMoy. Enough of a game changer for me. Sometimes I feel like I'm listening to a different pair of headphones, and not in a bad sense. I agree there's some dips in the frequency range that causes peculiarities.
 
Since this is my only pair of headphones atm I can't say how this matches up to the ones that have been mentioned so far, but for someone who has never spent more than $70 for iems or headphones, these are pretty damn good. I suppose if I listen to more refined headphones I would be able to pick on on the other flaws that you've described, but so far these are as good as it gets for me. The thing is, I don't listen to many songs that aren't J-Pop and don't have female vocals.
 
Including the CMoy and the short cord that I purchased I've spent around $101 total on my setup.

ykw, once i get them, i will do a comparison with my other current cans (dt880, T1) to see how it compares to a 300$ and a 1300$ can in an attempt to derail the hype train.

 

[tdockweiler]

Quote:

 

 
They sound vastly different with my CMoy. Enough of a game changer for me. Sometimes I feel like I'm listening to a different pair of headphones, and not in a bad sense. I agree there's some dips in the frequency range that causes peculiarities.
 
Since this is my only pair of headphones atm I can't say how this matches up to the ones that have been mentioned so far, but for someone who has never spent more than $70 for iems or headphones, these are pretty damn good. I suppose if I listen to more refined headphones I would be able to pick on on the other flaws that you've described, but so far these are as good as it gets for me. The thing is, I don't listen to many songs that aren't J-Pop and don't have female vocals.
 
Including the CMoy and the short cord that I purchased I've spent around $101 total on my setup.

 
My guess is that it's somewhere in the lower treble, but only so slightly. In that last post this was my idea. I think Koss knows there is a lot of crappy recordings (with the mids+treble cranked up in the studio) out there and these tracks seem to be a bit easier on the ears compared to my KRK and Q701.
 
Honestly I could probably listen to these all day without fatigue. OK, the Assault Rifle in Fallout 3 is a bit bright with these

Now listening to that on my KRK KNS-8400 or Koss A/250 is just painful.
 
Maybe this weird dip that people hear is caused by poor seal on the stock pads. I always thought the M50 offered slightly more treble, so maybe more lower treble? Who knows. I'd love to have someone measure them with different pads.
 
Listening to Yo-Yo Ma's "Simply Baroque" right now from my JVC CD player to Micro Amp. Not much worse than the modded HD-600 when using M40 pads

One one song it sounds like they have a furnace blaring in the background. Tons of detail, but the soundstage is held back with this CD player I think.
 
I found a Denon DCM-777 today for $25 from 1990, but the thing was broken. Darn. I wonder how that would have sounded..the last Denon I had was very bassy.

 

[tdockweiler]

Quote:

ykw, once i get them, i will do a comparison with my other current cans (dt880, T1) to see how it compares to a 300$ and a 1300$ can in an attempt to derail the hype train.

 
My guess is that if used with a WA22 it will be approximately 12-13% better in overall sound quality than the T1

Probably comparable to the Sennheiser Orpheus (that's well burned in).
 
 
 
 
(I hope that comment gives them a pass onto the hype train. They've never been on it..for real)

 

[NujaBlessed]

My guess is that if used with a WA22 it will be approximately 12-13% better in overall sound quality than the T1
Probably comparable to the Sennheiser Orpheus (that's well burned in).




(I hope that comment gives them a pass onto the hype train. They've never been on it..for real)

Lets hope so, Id like nothing more than to have something beat out the sig pro for a portable at 1/15th the price.

 

[Impulse]

My experience with the DJ100 TBSE aligns with what joker said in his review (link below).  I couldn't find better sounding circumaural cans for the $50 I paid.

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f103/shootout-a-433318/

 

Joker also rates their sound below the CAL! and several other portable closed cans tho (including smaller AKG's in the same price range), and he's not even looking at full size cans in that roundup (not much anyway)... Heck, he scored it the same as Sony V6's and $30 Panasonics (not hating on those, just saying). Nevermind the stuff at $150+.

Either way, if they suffer all these maladies with stock pads or without an amp or what have you then they're clearly not for me (or very versatile). I'm still intrigued tho, and I'll probably end up buying them at some point for comparison's purpose tho, I'd love to see a drastic change after burn in and/or proper amplification. I'd still return them if the latter is what fixes the vocals (wouldn't work for my needs) but I'm genuinely curious.

 

[mbamg]

Quote:

Joker also rates their sound below the CAL! and several other portable closed cans tho (including smaller AKG's in the same price range), and he's not even looking at full size cans in that roundup (not much anyway)... Heck, he scored it the same as Sony V6's and $30 Panasonics (not hating on those, just saying). Nevermind the stuff at $150+.
Either way, if they suffer all these maladies with stock pads or without an amp or what have you then they're clearly not for me (or very versatile). I'm still intrigued tho, and I'll probably end up buying them at some point for comparison's purpose tho, I'd love to see a drastic change after burn in and/or proper amplification. I'd still return them if the latter is what fixes the vocals (wouldn't work for my needs) but I'm genuinely curious.

 
I wouldn't compare the HTF600s with the V6s or DJ100s though since they supposedly have different sound signatures.

 

[tdockweiler]

Quote:

Joker also rates their sound below the CAL! and several other portable closed cans tho (including smaller AKG's in the same price range), and he's not even looking at full size cans in that roundup (not much anyway)... Heck, he scored it the same as Sony V6's and $30 Panasonics (not hating on those, just saying). Nevermind the stuff at $150+.
Either way, if they suffer all these maladies with stock pads or without an amp or what have you then they're clearly not for me (or very versatile). I'm still intrigued tho, and I'll probably end up buying them at some point for comparison's purpose tho, I'd love to see a drastic change after burn in and/or proper amplification. I'd still return them if the latter is what fixes the vocals (wouldn't work for my needs) but I'm genuinely curious.

CAL! is really good! I've determined i'm not a fan of it's pads at all. It's sort of a mix between fully circumaural and on ear for me. It also feels really plasticy and cheap (and it is!). They're a good deal at $65. I've just found that it's sound signature is not for me. It's still one I suggest quite a bit. I have no doubts some will prefer it over the DJ100. It's probably warmer and much bassier. I last had the CAL! about 2 years ago along with the SRH-840.
 
It's funny..I had the SRH-840 and the CAL! and had to keep one. It was the SRH-840. After a month I could not tolerate the physical pain from the SRH-840's design so I got rid of it.
 
I also like the HD-668B somewhat that ljokerl gave an 8.25. When you hear it, it sounds "technically" better than 90% of other headphones under $60. It's crystal clear, but fairly V-shaped (IMO). I hated it for gaming, but it does have a good soundstage. It'd make a good budget headphone for people who love classical music. It's not very musical for me and kind of thin sounding.
 
Denon HP700 is really good too but ruined by terrible pads. Based on memory, it had some similarities to the DJ100. ljokerl actually suggested that one to me and he was spot on! It does have slightly more bass than the DJ100.
 
The Beyerdynamic DJX-1 is also good. Same with the Beyer DT-235.
 
Hopefully I can hear the DT-48e before they're impossible to find. Maybe that will be the DJ100 killer for me?
 
BTW I wonder if there's a headphone from Grado that's similar to the DJ100 (except for the bass!!). I loved the SR-225, but not the 325is. I've heard the HF2 is the warmest Grado I think. The SR-225 has some very engaging mids. I was addicted to it's mids for days and then was stupid and "upgraded" to the 325is.

 

[mbamg]

Quote:

CAL! is really good! I've determined i'm not a fan of it's pads at all. It's sort of a mix between fully circumaural and on ear for me. It also feels really plasticy and cheap (and it is!). They're a good deal at $65. I've just found that it's sound signature is not for me. It's still one I suggest quite a bit. I have no doubts some will prefer it over the DJ100. It's probably warmer and much bassier. I last had the CAL! about 2 years ago along with the SRH-840.
 
It's funny..I had the SRH-840 and the CAL! and had to keep one. It was the SRH-840. After a month I could not tolerate the physical pain from the SRH-840's design so I got rid of it.
 
I also like the HD-668B somewhat that ljokerl gave an 8.25. When you hear it, it sounds "technically" better than 90% of other headphones under $60. It's crystal clear, but fairly V-shaped (IMO). I hated it for gaming, but it does have a good soundstage. It'd make a good budget headphone for people who love classical music. It's not very musical for me and kind of thin sounding.
 
Denon HP700 is really good too but ruined by terrible pads. Based on memory, it had some similarities to the DJ100. ljokerl actually suggested that one to me and he was spot on! It does have slightly more bass than the DJ100.
 
The Beyerdynamic DJX-1 is also good. Same with the Beyer DT-235.
 
Hopefully I can hear the DT-48e before they're impossible to find. Maybe that will be the DJ100 killer for me?
 
BTW I wonder if there's a headphone from Grado that's similar to the DJ100 (except for the bass!!). I loved the SR-225, but not the 325is. I've heard the HF2 is the warmest Grado I think. The SR-225 has some very engaging mids. I was addicted to it's mids for days and then was stupid and "upgraded" to the 325is.

 
Listened to the SR125s. Thought it was better but the bass actually felt bloated. A complete What moment for me.

 

[ElmerK]

I have a friend who is very wealthy (multi-millionaire) and a prolific wine collector. He has a large wine cellar, larger than most fine restaurants. He always tells me that anyone can spend $100 or $500  plus for a bottle and experience a great bottle of wine, but the real challenge, thrill, and fun is with knowledge and conviction paying $15-$25 for a bottle and finding a wine that rivals the expensive ones. Now I acknowledge that my 63 year old ears are not what the were 30 years ago. At this point in life, I could easily afford top of the line headphones and equipment. BUT my current system consists of Koss Tony Bennetts (at a bargain price) , Fiio E-10 DAC, and a Bravo Audio Ocean tube amp. The whole system cost me less than $250 to set up. All I can say is that I am very very pleased with the sound. If i do take a jump up I am thinking of Shure SRH-1840's, I heard them at a shop where I could compare them to the latest Hifiman and Sennheisers, and I  preferred them, (in fact the owner insisted I try them and I first refused, Shure? I said, lol)  but they will cost almost 3X my current total set-up. Again maybe it is my old ears.

 

[mbamg]

Quote:

I have a friend who is very wealthy (multi-millionaire) and a prolific wine collector. He has a large wine cellar, larger than most fine restaurants. He always tells me that anyone can spend $100 or $500  plus for a bottle and experience a great bottle of wine, but the real challenge, thrill, and fun is with knowledge and conviction paying $15-$25 for a bottle and finding a wine that rivals the expensive ones. Now I acknowledge that my 63 year old ears are not what the were 30 years ago. At this point in life, I could easily afford top of the line headphones and equipment. BUT my current system consists of Koss Tony Bennetts (at a bargain price) , Fiio E-10 DAC, and a Bravo Audio Ocean tube amp. The whole system cost me less than $250 to set up. All I can say is that I am very very pleased with the sound. If i do take a jump up I am thinking of Shure SRH-1840's, I heard them at a shop where I could compare them to the latest Hifiman and Sennheisers, and I  preferred them, (in fact the owner insisted I try them and I first refused, Shure? I said, lol)  but they will cost almost 3X my current total set-up. Again maybe it is my old ears.

 
I can understand how your friend feels. When you've got a pile of money, you'd want to make the most out of it.

 

[ElmerK]

Quote:

Quote:

I have a friend who is very wealthy (multi-millionaire) and a prolific wine collector. He has a large wine cellar, larger than most fine restaurants. He always tells me that anyone can spend $100 or $500  plus for a bottle and experience a great bottle of wine, but the real challenge, thrill, and fun is with knowledge and conviction paying $15-$25 for a bottle and finding a wine that rivals the expensive ones. Now I acknowledge that my 63 year old ears are not what the were 30 years ago. At this point in life, I could easily afford top of the line headphones and equipment. BUT my current system consists of Koss Tony Bennetts (at a bargain price) , Fiio E-10 DAC, and a Bravo Audio Ocean tube amp. The whole system cost me less than $250 to set up. All I can say is that I am very very pleased with the sound. If i do take a jump up I am thinking of Shure SRH-1840's, I heard them at a shop where I could compare them to the latest Hifiman and Sennheisers, and I  preferred them, (in fact the owner insisted I try them and I first refused, Shure? I said, lol)  but they will cost almost 3X my current total set-up. Again maybe it is my old ears.

 
I can understand how your friend feels. When you've got a pile of money, you'd want to make the most out of it.

You missed the boat. That is not it at all.  Whether rich or poor, the fun. excitement and reward, is in using your knowledge to get around the hype and find out what is best for you. High end products, in whatever venue, are incrementally over-priced. The challenge is to use your knowledge to find the sweet spot on the cost/benefit curve.

 

[NujaBlessed]

Quote:

You missed the boat. That is not it at all.  Whether rich or poor, the fun. excitement and reward, is in using your knowledge to get around the hype and find out what is best for you. High end products, in whatever venue, are incrementally over-priced. The challenge is to use your knowledge to find the sweet spot on the cost/benefit curve.

 
i think you're missing the whole point of what overpriced is. if you believe high end products are overpriced, then the low end might as well be even more overpriced. at the end of the day, companies are out to make money and they make the most margin on inferior low end products because of the volume of sales on those and the percentage of margin made is much higher. the margin from each specific high end product will be higher relative to the low end, but because the sales volume will be so much lower it is definitely justified. diminishing returns occur in anything you buy, but that doesn't mean anything is overpriced.
 
tl;dr
diminishing returns doesn't = overpriced.

 

[Fuzziekiwi]

Quote:

Joker also rates their sound below the CAL! and several other portable closed cans tho (including smaller AKG's in the same price range), and he's not even looking at full size cans in that roundup (not much anyway)... Heck, he scored it the same as Sony V6's and $30 Panasonics (not hating on those, just saying). Nevermind the stuff at $150+.
Either way, if they suffer all these maladies with stock pads or without an amp or what have you then they're clearly not for me (or very versatile). I'm still intrigued tho, and I'll probably end up buying them at some point for comparison's purpose tho, I'd love to see a drastic change after burn in and/or proper amplification. I'd still return them if the latter is what fixes the vocals (wouldn't work for my needs) but I'm genuinely curious.

Keeping build quality in mind, they do crush the CAL! and those smaller akg's like the K81 . I'd say they are almost at the same level of the V6's, it really just comes down to personal preference.
 
I used my headphones through a Pioneer reciever, my soundcard, iPod Touch 2g, a computer with onboard audio and an iPhone 4S. The V6's and ProDJ100's sound the best through the reciever and soundcard. Through the rest of the sources, the Koss sound thin and the treble is a little fatiguing while the V6's sound really thin and harsh to the point I can't even stand them. Just my findings.