[Zombie_X]

I still think they do not need an amp at all. I have yet to hear improvements with one. Even from both my Via and 3DS they sounded great with ample bass, and the 3DS has a very weak amp. They do scale with amps, but not a lot. They don't sound all that better on my V200 compared to my Zune or Blackberry. Just my $.2.
 
I ended up selling the pair I had because they did not get any use at all from me. I used my SRH-440 more and more than them and now my KRK KNS-8400 rules all of my budget phones.
 
For best sub $150 headphones, my vote goes to the KNS-8400. I got mine for $100 from a seller on eBay and it was a great price! The DJ100 is great and all, but there are better option for under $150. *runs away*

 

[tdockweiler]

 
Quote:

I still think they do not need an amp at all. I have yet to hear improvements with one. Even from both my Via and 3DS they sounded great with ample bass, and the 3DS has a very weak amp. They do scale with amps, but not a lot. They don't sound all that better on my V200 compared to my Zune or Blackberry. Just my $.2.
 
I ended up selling the pair I had because they did not get any use at all from me. I used my SRH-440 more and more than them and now my KRK KNS-8400 rules all of my budget phones.
 
For best sub $150 headphones, my vote goes to the KNS-8400. I got mine for $100 from a seller on eBay and it was a great price! The DJ100 is great and all, but there are better option for under $150. *runs away*

 

I don't expect everyone to love them as much as me. It's possible many people probably hate them due to sound signature preferences.
 
I guess we can agree to disagree on amping

Sure it can sound great from a portable device, but it's even benefited from my Headroom Micro Amp over the Total Airhead and E11. I've owned the DJ100 for 2 years now and still rarely can budget on suggesting them without an amp. I'm even the guy who can easily suggest the HD-598 without one! My HD-598 even sounds amazing straight from a Clip!
 
Most likely your Zune HD can drive them to 100%. Have you tried them with a Clip and straight from an Ipod Touch? If you do this, you'll find the sound can be a little more fatiguing than with a good amp. The bass is also a bit less controlled. I have quite a few tracks I can pick out that I test this with. The sub-bass also lacks a bit without a good amp. With good amping the sound is even clearer and less fatiguing. The mids also seem a lot fuller sounding and it's not just taking on the amps signature. The soundstage also increases with better amping.
 
I don't think they sound awful from a portable device, but I just choose to use them with a portable amp. I want the best sound possible from them. The differences are very clear for me. These things even show an improvement from switching from portable devices to my HRT Music Streamer II.
 
My best advice to anyone is to try them with an amp and compare them with and without an amp. The E5 is also only $25 too.
 
BTW I don't want people to think they need some $200 monster amp, but more that they deserve a nice portable amp. Clip+ to E11 and M50 pads is just amazing to my ears.
 
I'm glad you like the KRK KNS-8400. If I remember right you were not that impressed with it much at first. That's the one that nearly dethroned my DJ100 as a favorite, but that I got tired of it, but still love it. My DJ100/TB is much smoother sounding despite the forward mids and maybe a tiny bit more forgiving of bad recordings. I think the mids of the KNS-8400 are a bit thinner than that of the DJ100/TB to my ears.
 
Like the DJ100, i've been raving about the KRKs forever, but they'll be even harder for some to like than even the DJ100. Main reason I'd say I love the DJ100 is that it's mids are just so addicting. It's crystal clear sounding, does well with vocals and still manages to have good bass.
 
I actually think the KRK KNS-8400 benefits just as much from amping and a good computer DAC as the DJ100! What's amusing though is that the DJ100 gets louder than the KRK KNS-8400 straight out of the clip.
 
I'd say the KRK KNS-6400 is closer in sound signature to the DJ100, but the KRKs are more treble happy than the DJ100.
 
KRKs might have a slight edge when it comes to ambient electronic music, which is my current favorite music genre.
 
Also..wonder what the power output of the Zune HD is. I imagine it's about the same as the Ipod Touch and Clip. I think saying they don't need an amp is kind of general since there are dozens of different portable players out there.
 
I've also noticed, some music will sound good and others..not so good. I guess certain frequencies needs more power etc. Surprisingly I've never gotten my Total Airhead to clip yet with the DJ100. If it's under-voltage it gives me the red blink. This is even with a LOD cable.
 
 

 

[tdockweiler]

Before that previous long post, earlier today I did some more comparisons with the E5 ($25), Total Airhead ($99) and Fiio E11 ($65). I used a generic interconnect cable and stock Tony Bennett coiled cable.
 
Here is how i'd rank them:
 
Sansa Clip, 1/8" cable to Total Airhead
 
This combination sounded absolutely perfect. Very smooth sounding and no frequency was jumping out at me despite the forward mids. Bass was very well controlled. Everything was at it's best and crystal clear. Soundstage was quite large with the proper music. When I started testing this I got side-tracked and listened to it for the next hour!
 
Sansa Clip, 1/8" cable to Fiio E11
The mids are a bit thinner sounding, but ONLY when compared to the Airhead. Still very good. I would say it's not as balanced sounding as the Airhead setup and has a tiny bit more treble perhaps. I don't find the E11 dark at all really.
 
Ipod Touch 2G, 1/8" to E11
 
Large soundstage and seemed quite good. Forgot to take notes with this setup.
 
Ipod Touch 2G, 3.55mm to E5
This sounds very, very good. The mids on the E5 are clearly more forward than those of the E11 and Total Airhead.
 
Ipod Touch 2G > Line Out Cable > E5
 
This is not that good. Very slightly better than going from straight out of the Ipod Touch. At least the bass was a lot better controlled.
 
Ipod Touch
The bass seemed a little uncontrolled at times and the overall sound was slightly less clear than when going well amped. Soundstage is much smaller and mids don't seem as forward as they should be. Not quite as detailed also. The difference between straight out of Ipod Touch to the 1/8" E5 method is quite large.
 
Clip
Very similar resulting sound as straight out of the Ipod Touch, but a little bit better actually! Bass could be a bit better controlled, but not too bad.
 
 
It seems that I got the worst results when going ampless and then by using a LOD cable on any device.
 
The Airhead is weird. My guess is that it's better for harder to drive headphones and gives me the impression of less power for lower impedance headphones. When using a 3.55m cable to it (more power from the portable source) it clearly sounds better. I didn't quite like it as much when using a LOD cable.

 

[Zombie_X]

Travis,
 
I tried them directly out of an Ipod 5G in the past and they did sound a bit cold, but I'd say that it's the Ipod that does that. My old 5G Ipod did sound very cold with music and the bass on Ipods is lacking. From the Cowon J3 they did sound better as the J3 has a better D/A and the resulting sound was fuller. 
 
For amps, I always have recommended the Little-Dot MK1+. It's an exceptional portable amp and can drive many IEM's and 32Ohm headphones effortlessly. If you could Travis, try and get one to try out. I had two of them at one point and sold the working one, while the busted one was just sitting around and I used it for spare parts..

 

[oopeteroo]

if i want to listening to the dj100 normaly, to get the original sound should it be mono or stereo ?
 
what will m50 pad improve ?
will it be comforable as hd598?

 

[Bradley]

Others will tell you there opinion but before you buy the M50 pads try putting a role of toilet paper under and inside the ear cushions all the way around. This will give more space for your ears and improve the sound. Its nowhere near the comfort level of the M50 pads but in my opinion it sounds better. Not as clear as M50's but more relaxing, depending on what sound you prefer. Ask tdockweiler, he's super helpful. 

 

[KG Jag]

 
Quote:

if i want to listening to the dj100 normaly, to get the original sound should it be mono or stereo ?
 
...

 

Stereo.

 

[tdockweiler]

 
Quote:

if i want to listening to the dj100 normaly, to get the original sound should it be mono or stereo ?
 
what will m50 pad improve ?
will it be comforable as hd598?

 
I think it's as comfortable as the 598, but only with the M50 pads. The 598 pads are velour though. I've used the DJ100 with M50 pads for up to 5-6 hours without any issues.
You sometimes need to rotate the pads to keep them lined up.
 
The M50 pads give me an impression of a larger soundstage, slightly more treble and maybe 1% less forward mids (ears further from the driver). Slightly clearer sound perhaps.
Some prefer them with stock pads and the others with M50 pads. I haven't yet tried stuffing anything under the stock pads.
 
A cheaper alternative to the M50 pads are V6 pads.
 
BTW I once said the M50 pads add a tiny bit more bass, but i'm not 100% sure about this anymore. I would say it's about the same.
 
If you're happy with stock pads and find them very comfortable then the M50 pads are not required. It may be a slight upgrade in sound quality for some.
 
The stock pads also get a little more comfortable the more you use them. I've noticed this once with the stock KRK pads.
 
It's interested how much the sound of the DJ100 is caused by the pads. If you use SRH-840 or SRH-940 pads you can ruin the sound. If you use DT-250 pads the sound is too harsh and fatiguing. If you use SRH-940 pads the bass goes out the window!
If you have too much air in between the driver and your ear, the bass seems to be reduced and there's way too much treble.
 
I think the Pioneer HDJ-2000 pads fit and they're leather, but I haven't tried them. They don't look circumaural or not deep enough. I like the M50 pads enough that I haven't spent the $40 to try them out. I guess they're real leather and that's why they cost more.
There is also a 50/50 chance the Skullcandy Mix Master headphone pads might fit. they look comfortable.

 

[maestrochoy]

 
Quote:

if i want to listening to the dj100 normaly, to get the original sound should it be mono or stereo ?
 
what will m50 pad improve ?
will it be comforable as hd598?

 
I personally think the HD598s are way more superior in quality than the dj100 with M50 pads. It's not that they're uncomfortable, but they're less comfortable than the 598s, and I notice it immediately when I switch from one to the other.

 

[KG Jag]

 
Quote:

 
 
I personally think the HD598s are way more superior in quality than the dj100 with M50 pads. It's not that they're uncomfortable, but they're less comfortable than the 598s, and I notice it immediately when I switch from one to the other.

 

Of course they are.  They are a highly regarded can that costs 4 to 5 times as much as the 100 (not counting the pads)--based on current US street prices.

 

[tdockweiler]

 
Quote:

 
 
I personally think the HD598s are way more superior in quality than the dj100 with M50 pads. It's not that they're uncomfortable, but they're less comfortable than the 598s, and I notice it immediately when I switch from one to the other.

 
build quality? sound quality?
I think the HD-598 is very comfortable and even more so than the HD-600, but not the K601.
 
I personally think the DJ100 sounds better than the HD-598. HD-598 sounds very, very good and some may prefer that type of sound. It makes most everything sound good it seems like.  I love my HD-598 to death but it barely gets much use anymore. It's pretty much a near perfect headphone to me, except for it's crappy build quality. $250 for the 598 is a joke!! HD-600 for $399 is even worse.
 
Take the pads off the HD-598 and it feels no better than a cheap plastic children's toy. I drilled into mine to recable it and it took about half a second because the plastic is so thin. I could have pressed hard with a screwdriver and made a hole. Mine has the cracking issue but I bought it a very long time ago when they just came out. It hasn't expanded any further though.
 
BTW I actually think the HD-598 sounds better than the HD-600 and HD-650 too (to my ears!). HD-600 has more bass, but sounds warmer and more muffled with stock cables. HD-600 I like, but kind of annoys me with it's sound. I really like it a lot with the Double Helix cable.
 
Again, comparing open to closed headphones is stupid to me. I do love the soundstage of the HD-598 and it's entire signature. I've mentioned it before, but for something that retails for $250 it could sound a bit more clear.
 
I like my K601 a bit more than the 598 I think, but it's a little more fatiguing with bad music. I think the HD-598 might actually have more detail, which is kind of hard to believe!

 

[maestrochoy]

 
Quote:

 
 
build quality? sound quality?
I think the HD-598 is very comfortable and even more so than the HD-600, but not the K601.
 
I personally think the DJ100 sounds better than the HD-598. HD-598 sounds very, very good and some may prefer that type of sound. It makes most everything sound good it seems like.  I love my HD-598 to death but it barely gets much use anymore. It's pretty much a near perfect headphone to me, except for it's crappy build quality. $250 for the 598 is a joke!! HD-600 for $399 is even worse.
 
Take the pads off the HD-598 and it feels no better than a cheap plastic children's toy. I drilled into mine to recable it and it took about half a second because the plastic is so thin. I could have pressed hard with a screwdriver and made a hole. Mine has the cracking issue but I bought it a very long time ago when they just came out. It hasn't expanded any further though.
 
BTW I actually think the HD-598 sounds better than the HD-600 and HD-650 too (to my ears!). HD-600 has more bass, but sounds warmer and more muffled with stock cables. HD-600 I like, but kind of annoys me with it's sound. I really like it a lot with the Double Helix cable.
 
Again, comparing open to closed headphones is stupid to me. I do love the soundstage of the HD-598 and it's entire signature. I've mentioned it before, but for something that retails for $250 it could sound a bit more clear.
 
I like my K601 a bit more than the 598 I think, but it's a little more fatiguing with bad music. I think the HD-598 might actually have more detail, which is kind of hard to believe!

 
 
Oops. I meant in terms of comfort level wise, but I'll comment on my personal preference in terms of sound quality as well now that you mention it.
 
In terms of build quality, I can feel the DJ100s on my head where as I forget that the Sennheisers are on my head. It may be due to its lightness and velour pads; however, the Sennheiser build quality definitely feels cheap and plastic like, but it's just a matter of taking good care of them.
 
The DJ100s sound quality is pretty good, and it may even have slightly more detail than the 598s, but I never use these for classical because of their inability to separate and space out the individual instruments. The entire orchestra and instruments just feel so cluttered causing a muddying effect on the DJ100s.
 
The HD598s are a lot better to listen to for classical, but it's not the best. I'm a very critical and analytical listener when it comes to recordings, but the HD598s have the Sennheiser veil on them that  make it warm and fun to listen to, but I can't use it for critical analysis. I do use them a lot just for easy Classical listening, but it just doesn't have the detail and accuracy as my KNS 8400s.
 
When I'm in an analyzing mood, I instantly grab my KNS 8400s, and they're far superior than the HD598s for listening. The instrument separation is a lot better, the extremely fast passages and runs come out a lot clearer, and you can hear everything at once with no instrument section overpowering any other section, just like how it was recorded. When listening to the 598s, there always seem to be one or two sections holding the spotlight, but it's not like that for my KNS 8400s.
 
Because I also want open headphones for critical listening, I may also purchase and definitely want to audition the AKG K701/702. The DJ100s are good headphones, but they are definitely not for me.
 
While the DJ100s are good, the only time I ever reach them for is curiosity when listening to rock (which isn't very often), so I'm most likely going to sell these. As you've probably noticed by now, I'm a classical musician (definitely not professional), and I almost exclusively listen to classical music hours per day and go to numerous concerts. That's my background and what I mainly listen to.
 
 
TL;DR
 
background : I listen to classical music hours per day, and it's my main genre.
 
DJ100s -> Find them heavy, not as comfortable as HD598s and 8400s because they're heavy, but the construction is pretty solid and looks great. I never use them for classical cause the sound is cluttered and not detailed. Use them for rock occassionally.
 
HD598s -> Extremely comfortable, not as solid as the DJ100s in terms of build quality, but just got to take good care of them. Fun and warm sound, so I use them for casual and fun classical listening. Great for rock too (Muse all the way!)
 
KNS 8400s -> Light, comfortable, good build quality. Great instrument separation, clarity, and I use them for critical classical music listening.
 

 

[SilentxStatik24]

Thanks for the clarification! Still lovin these cans.

 

[tdockweiler]

This makes perfect sense now! Yeah the DJ100 wouldn't be my first choice for classical music, but that's like 1% of what I listen to. I still think they're quite good for that, but not great.
It's funny how you own 3 of my favorite headphones! The KRK KNS-8400 is my 2nd favorite closed headphone and I'd easily suggest this over the DJ100 for someone that listens to mostly classical music.
In fact, I would rarely suggest a closed headphone for classical due to a smaller soundstage. The 8400 gets the pass from me because it's soundstage is quite good. Not huge, but just very accurate.
 
As for the bolded area below about the HD-598. I found this out too when I did a K601 vs hD-598 review. The K601's sound is much more airy and it's actually much easier to pinpoint all the different instruments since they're spaced out better. On the 598 it was often hard to pinpoint where an instrument was. Not too difficult but more so than the K601.
 
On the DJ100, I never find the sound with classical or anything with a large soundstage in the recording to be too cluttered. Even on very complex songs with lots going on, it never becomes unclear or muddy. Sometimes I got this effect with stock pads and when unamped. I've actually found the sound more congested on my HD-600, which is just bizarre!
 
One interested thing i've found is that the soundstage size of the DJ100 varies with different amp and dac combinations. When I use the E9 (or Headoom Micro Amp) with my HRT Music Streamer II, the soundstage is probably as large as it's ever been. The soundstage size with the E11 is also quite large. Acoustic music with a large soundstage in the recording is impressive. I'll spare you with my cable talk

. With silver plated copper, the soundstage is even more accurate and larger. I use ALO SXC. I know people will think i'm crazy.
 
The HRT MSII DAC is actually very nice with the KRK KNS-8400 and DJ100. I had the DJ100 for over 2 years and thought I had gotten it to sound the best I could. With the HRT it feels like the KRK KNS-8400 and DJ100 are semi-open or almost open headphones. No joke!!
 
Have you heard the K501? This is one of the best classical music headphones ever, but it's a pain to drive and it's soundstage is massive! It's larger than that of the AD700 and Q701. Yet somehow nothing sounded too distant. Discontinued though and hard to find.
 
I'm not a fan of the K550, but it's soundstage is larger than that of the KNS-8400. 8400 sounds better, but if I listened to nothing but classical, I'd keep the K550 for sure.
 
K601 is also nice for classical, but doesn't have the treble of the Q701 and the k601 is much fuller sounding and warmer. A little more mid-bass and not as clear and detailed as the Q701. It has better imaging than the Q701 though. I've found it to sound like a mix between an HD-600 and K702 maybe.
 
I would say my preferred genre is vocal oriented music, mostly female and some older music such as Pearl Jam and Radiohead. Lately i've been obsessed with ambient electronica and for that the KRK KNS-8400 is quite amazing. Stuff like Boards of Canada and Helios.
 
I actually think the DJ100's best genre is anything with female vocals or specific acoustic music (I like Ali Farka Toure). I don't know why, but I really like the Pirates of the Carribbean soundtracks on the DJ100. The bassy remix versions are especially..interesting on the DJ100.
Quote:

 
 
 
Oops. I meant in terms of comfort level wise, but I'll comment on my personal preference in terms of sound quality as well now that you mention it.
 
In terms of build quality, I can feel the DJ100s on my head where as I forget that the Sennheisers are on my head. It may be due to its lightness and velour pads; however, the Sennheiser build quality definitely feels cheap and plastic like, but it's just a matter of taking good care of them.
 
The DJ100s sound quality is pretty good, and it may even have slightly more detail than the 598s, but I never use these for classical because of their inability to separate and space out the individual instruments. The entire orchestra and instruments just feel so cluttered causing a muddying effect on the DJ100s.
 
The HD598s are a lot better to listen to for classical, but it's not the best. I'm a very critical and analytical listener when it comes to recordings, but the HD598s have the Sennheiser veil on them that  make it warm and fun to listen to, but I can't use it for critical analysis. I do use them a lot just for easy Classical listening, but it just doesn't have the detail and accuracy as my KNS 8400s.
 
When I'm in an analyzing mood, I instantly grab my KNS 8400s, and they're far superior than the HD598s for listening. The instrument separation is a lot better, the extremely fast passages and runs come out a lot clearer, and you can hear everything at once with no instrument section overpowering any other section, just like how it was recorded. When listening to the 598s, there always seem to be one or two sections holding the spotlight, but it's not like that for my KNS 8400s.
 
Because I also want open headphones for critical listening, I may also purchase and definitely want to audition the AKG K701/702. The DJ100s are good headphones, but they are definitely not for me.
 
While the DJ100s are good, the only time I ever reach them for is curiosity when listening to rock (which isn't very often), so I'm most likely going to sell these. As you've probably noticed by now, I'm a classical musician (definitely not professional), and I almost exclusively listen to classical music hours per day and go to numerous concerts. That's my background and what I mainly listen to.
 
 
TL;DR
 
background : I listen to classical music hours per day, and it's my main genre.
 
DJ100s -> Find them heavy, not as comfortable as HD598s and 8400s because they're heavy, but the construction is pretty solid and looks great. I never use them for classical cause the sound is cluttered and not detailed. Use them for rock occassionally.
 
HD598s -> Extremely comfortable, not as solid as the DJ100s in terms of build quality, but just got to take good care of them. Fun and warm sound, so I use them for casual and fun classical listening. Great for rock too (Muse all the way!)
 
KNS 8400s -> Light, comfortable, good build quality. Great instrument separation, clarity, and I use them for critical classical music listening.
 

 
 

 

[maestrochoy]

 
Quote:

This makes perfect sense now! Yeah the DJ100 wouldn't be my first choice for classical music, but that's like 1% of what I listen to. I still think they're quite good for that, but not great.
It's funny how you own 3 of my favorite headphones! The KRK KNS-8400 is my 2nd favorite closed headphone and I'd easily suggest this over the DJ100 for someone that listens to mostly classical music.
In fact, I would rarely suggest a closed headphone for classical due to a smaller soundstage. The 8400 gets the pass from me because it's soundstage is quite good. Not huge, but just very accurate.
 
As for the bolded area below about the HD-598. I found this out too when I did a K601 vs hD-598 review. The K601's sound is much more airy and it's actually much easier to pinpoint all the different instruments since they're spaced out better. On the 598 it was often hard to pinpoint where an instrument was. Not too difficult but more so than the K601.
 
On the DJ100, I never find the sound with classical or anything with a large soundstage in the recording to be too cluttered. Even on very complex songs with lots going on, it never becomes unclear or muddy. Sometimes I got this effect with stock pads and when unamped. I've actually found the sound more congested on my HD-600, which is just bizarre!
 
One interested thing i've found is that the soundstage size of the DJ100 varies with different amp and dac combinations. When I use the E9 (or Headoom Micro Amp) with my HRT Music Streamer II, the soundstage is probably as large as it's ever been. The soundstage size with the E11 is also quite large. Acoustic music with a large soundstage in the recording is impressive. I'll spare you with my cable talk

. With silver plated copper, the soundstage is even more accurate and larger. I use ALO SXC. I know people will think i'm crazy.
 
The HRT MSII DAC is actually very nice with the KRK KNS-8400 and DJ100. I had the DJ100 for over 2 years and thought I had gotten it to sound the best I could. With the HRT it feels like the KRK KNS-8400 and DJ100 are semi-open or almost open headphones. No joke!!
 
Have you heard the K501? This is one of the best classical music headphones ever, but it's a pain to drive and it's soundstage is massive! It's larger than that of the AD700 and Q701. Yet somehow nothing sounded too distant. Discontinued though and hard to find.
 
I'm not a fan of the K550, but it's soundstage is larger than that of the KNS-8400. 8400 sounds better, but if I listened to nothing but classical, I'd keep the K550 for sure.
 
K601 is also nice for classical, but doesn't have the treble of the Q701 and the k601 is much fuller sounding and warmer. A little more mid-bass and not as clear and detailed as the Q701. It has better imaging than the Q701 though. I've found it to sound like a mix between an HD-600 and K702 maybe.
 
I would say my preferred genre is vocal oriented music, mostly female and some older music such as Pearl Jam and Radiohead. Lately i've been obsessed with ambient electronica and for that the KRK KNS-8400 is quite amazing. Stuff like Boards of Canada and Helios.
 
I actually think the DJ100's best genre is anything with female vocals or specific acoustic music (I like Ali Farka Toure). I don't know why, but I really like the Pirates of the Carribbean soundtracks on the DJ100. The bassy remix versions are especially..interesting on the DJ100.
 
 

 
I ended up reading a lot of your posts at this forum the past few months, and I got the DJ100s based on your recommendations and the KNS 8400s based on electropop and your recommendation! So, thanks!
 
I don't have the best DAC right now, so I may eventually get the HRT MSII DAC.
 
Also, I really wanted to try the AKG K501s, but I have been searching for the past month with no luck anywhere. I really wish they didn't discontinue it, but my guess is that the marketing didn't work out as the targeted audience was too narrow. Based on what people say, the k501 seems like a K701 with bigger soundstage and less details, so I may end up liking the K701s just because I'm a detail freak.