[newphones]

Quote:

They're not nearly as fatiguing as Grados.

 
Really appreciate the feedback. This is reassuring to me. Even the koss ksc75's are fatiguing for me. 

 

[newphones]

Quote:

Hi newphones,
 
The DJ 100 are neither « dark/veiled » nore « overly bright/fatiguing ».
With the M50 pads, which are a no-brainer IMO, their trebles are crisp and detailed, but not fatiguing or sibilant at all.
The bass and lower mids will also improve significantly both in quantity and quality with those Audio Technica pads.
 (also, keep in mind that they need a least 100 hours break-in.)
 
I hate both dark phones (I’ve just sold my brand new Fidelio X1) and overly bright ones (I’m selling my Beyer DT-880 600).
 
Although the SR60i are fatiguing (after an hour of listening, I’m done), I love their unique mix of brilliant mids (vocals, guitars, etc.), fun/engaging sound and retro style. They rock.
 
I used to love the PortaPros but it’s all over now… I find them way to dark. I keep them in my collection, for their StarTrek design and cult status.
The DJ 100 are completely different. Far more detailed, revealing and articulated, less mudded, with a better soundstage. They play in another league, they are 100x better.
 
I cannot comment on the KSC75.
 
As I already mentionned, the DJ 100 are neither dark/veiled or overly bright/fatiguing.
Chances are good you will LOVE them. 

 

 
Great info! I think I will buy a pair. 
 
The OP said that a break-in period might be in order? I'm happy to burn these in for 50+ hours or more if necessary. 

 

[tdockweiler]

Quote:

 
Great info! I think I will buy a pair. 
 
The OP said that a break-in period might be in order? I'm happy to burn these in for 50+ hours or more if necessary. 

EDIT: Wow, long winded. Sorry, I was bored. Oops.

You definitely won't need 50+ hours for sure. I've owned about 7 or 8 pairs before and only two needed any sort of burn-in. I almost never burn in my headphones if they sound OK out of the box.
 
For a DJ100 I had once, I just shoved it in a office drawer playing music while I was sleeping. I'd loop my most obnoxious music  (or pink noise) and crank it a little higher than normal listening volume (but not too high). I think I did this for 4 days and 8 hours each night.
 
I don't want to get into a stupid burn-in debate but the Dj100s I had that needed burn-in were actually rather muffled sounding, which is really bizarre. I only knew how bad it sounded because I had another DJ100 at the time. I seriously thought one of them was defective and complained about it in this forum. People tell me this is impossible. I guess it's just due to the Titanium driver or something.
 
I know some of my posts are rather ridiculous, but with my TBSE I can basically pick apart any change in my setup with ease. When I have a problem with my setup I'm usually able to detect it first on my DJ100/TBSE. When I was able to figure out the differences between the Modi and ODAC, it was much easier on the TBSE compared to my Q701 and HD-650. Why? No clue. Whenever I use a crappy source it usually sounded rather congested or muffled. I bought an old portable Sony CD player the order day for my DJ100 and it sounds awful with the DJ100. Apparently it's not one of the good ones but a more recent model.
 
I know it sounds nuts, but my DJ100 does sound slightly different on any single DAC or amp (if it has any coloration). I wonder if the KSC75 or even the OLD Pro4AA is the same way? I now believe that the DJ100 sounds the best on very transparent gear. It actually sounds even more balanced than before.
 
I have to admit though that for whatever reason, the treble is a bit harsh from the Ipod Touch 2G, but that thing sounds colder than the ODAC(!) and seems to have sort of edgy treble. I guess it measures ruler flat too or close.
 
I'm still loving it from my old Ipod 3G monochrome version. I'm trying to find the power output but all I can find is 50mw, but that seems way too high. I believe the newest Ipods are only 32mw per channel at 15 ohm. The Cowon D2 is 37mw at 15 ohm.
 
The Ipod 3G has just a touch of warmth, but the soundstage is nearly as good as my desktop DAC! It uses the WM8731. I wonder if the WM8741 sounds similar? That's in the Audio-GD NFB5. I swear that my Ipod Touch 2G can't possibly have a Wolfson DAC! Sounds nothing like any of the other Ipods. Just checked and I keept forgetting that it doesn't. Well duh.
 
BTW someone mentioned the upper mids. I still have always felt that they had forward upper mids. They're very similar in forwardness to my AKG Q701. Female vocals especially sound quite forward and never ever ever sound recessed. I think though that the nice thing about the DJ100 is they are never harsh and never have any sibilance. I think that is what Koss wanted.
 
Sometimes the DJ100 may sound as if it has recessed mids, but it's due to how a song is recorded and the DJ100 gets this right with the proper DAC. On some other headphones you can barely even tell. For example, vocals can randomly sound distant if they're supposed to sound that way in the recording. My Q701 and Dj100 fools me a lot.
 
Sometimes it's hard to figure out the Dj100's sound signature because it's so dang accurate to the recording. OK, with some slight forwardness in vocals, but not too much. Still accurate. The upper mids of the DJ100 reminded me of the SR-225i somewhat. I still can't understand why the graphs don't show them as having forward upper mids. Totally bizarre to me. You can easily hear them as being slightly forward. I can't even EQ up any range in the upper mids and treble without it ruining the sound. It is amusing when I use the EQ knobs on my receiver to increase the treble. They magically get clearer AND thinner sounding

 
Also, I remember in ljokerl's review that he mentioned that the mids become more forward with amping. I never really tested this, but it's possible. I don't think it would be due to any sort of coloration from the amp.
 
I wish I could be, but believe it or not I'm not a raving fanboy of the DJ100 from portable sources. I rarely even suggest them to those without an external amp. I always felt that they'd be best for those that already had a nice desktop amp/dac. I'm probably too picky really. I'm sure there are a ton of portable players that can make the DJ100 sound amazing. Someday I'd love to try the Fiio E12 or Jdslabs C5 with the DJ100. As long as i'm using a line out cable.
 
BTW does anyone else think the Sansa Fuze's line out is awful? I know it bypasses the amp, but still uses the DAC. Headphone out to amp sounds waaay better and it's doesn't sound like it's adding any distortion. Generally "double amping" is a big no-no, but it never sounds that bad to me.
 
Oh yeah, sometime I'd like to try the DJ100 with some ridiculously expensive gear and see what it's like. Probably exactly the same, but maybe not. Sometime when I get more money I want to try the Bifrost. I have a feeling the DJ100 might sound awful with the Lyr, but who knows..
 
I'm trying to squeeze an even larger soundstage out of my DJ100

For my DJ100 once you have a good enough amp, the DAC is the most important part IMO. I really like the Modi for the DJ100. I even sold my ODAC because I liked it so much!

 

[tdockweiler]

Quote:

Couldn't agree more.
Sometimes the sub is almost non-existant and then, on the next track and with no comprehensible reason, it becomes overwhelming, with a weird echo/resonance in the cup.
It's like the diaphragm suddenly gets out of control for the amp. Weird thing is that this kind of damping factor variations don't seem to relate to the track (bass heavy, etc). The exact opposite of my DT-250 250 ohms which has a strong authority on the low frequencies without muffling them.
Go figure... Theses cans are still a mystery for me.

But I like them more and more. They are brilliant but kinda unstable, undisciplinated... Oh wait... does that make any sense...? I think its time to go to bed

I can't believe how many songs have bloated bass IN the recording. It's just ridiculous. The DJ100 is pretty good at keeping it accurate, but I don't know why on earth a studio would want bloated bass in a song if it sounds so bad. I even have some Jpop with that in it. What's also really surprising to me is how many simple acoustic songs have very low bass that even my HD-650 and Q701 can't even pick up. Most of it's very subtle and doesn't really add much to the experience. Sometimes it just sounds like someone stomping hard on the floor. Don't think that's 10hz though

 
Sometime if you're bored you should open the cups of your DJ100 and see how the holes in the cups are drilled. The latest versions have a bunch of holes drilled straight down to the aluminum. The oldest DJ100s have them not drilled down very far and are just down to plastic. I wonder if this would do anything to reduce resonance? I doubt it. You can added dampening material to the cups, but it ruins the sound if you add too much. I even had some ultra thin felt and removed it because of what it is.
 
I've never heard any echos or cup resonance in any of my pairs (luckily).
 
Sometime when I have more money I'd like to buy another pair and totally remove the plastic in the back of the cup or experiment. If you remove the plastic in the cup you MIGHT be able to get away with adding some felt or other dampening material.
 
I've tried a few dozen random mods and none of them made it better than stock. Just changed the sound signature mostly, which I don't want.

 

[waynes world]

Quote:

 
Really appreciate the feedback. This is reassuring to me. Even the koss ksc75's are fatiguing for me. 

 
Sorry - I have have been subscribed to this thread forever (and it's been so long that I don't even know why any more). But, your comment caught my eye... you find the ksc75's fatiguing? What about them do you find to be so?

 

[newphones]

Quote:

You definitely won't need 50+ hours for sure. I've owned about 7 or 8 pairs before and only two needed any sort of burn-in. I almost never burn in my headphones if they sound OK out of the box.
 
 
Sometimes it's hard to figure out the Dj100's sound signature because it's so dang accurate to the recording. 

 
Nice!

 

[Makiah S]

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Nice!

lawl, accurate. My dt 880 250 ohms beg to differ with that statement <3 
 
compared apples to apples well it was a slaughter BUT again, I've said this b4 and I;'ll say t again! I went to best buy, they had dj 100 and dj 200, the dj 200 was AWESOME, like a closed dt 880! I really liked it SO I don't know what the heck is with the inconsistent dj 100's e.e [the two that I bought sounded terrible] 

 

[doublea71]

Consistency has come up as an issue in this thread before, so perhaps I got lucky. For its price, I think it is terrific. YMMV as always.

 

[newphones]

Recommendations on a carrying case for the 100's?

 

[Fuzziekiwi]

Quote:

I have to admit though that for whatever reason, the treble is a bit harsh from the Ipod Touch 2G

Totally agree with that. My HD558 & Portapro are the only headphones I have that I can tolerate with my iPod 2g. 

 

[tdockweiler]

Quote:

lawl, accurate. My dt 880 250 ohms beg to differ with that statement <3 
 
compared apples to apples well it was a slaughter BUT again, I've said this b4 and I;'ll say t again! I went to best buy, they had dj 100 and dj 200, the dj 200 was AWESOME, like a closed dt 880! I really liked it SO I don't know what the heck is with the inconsistent dj 100's e.e [the two that I bought sounded terrible] 

 
You can't really compare the DT-880 to the DJ100. Accurate just meaning it doesn't butcher the recording. Generally I find my Q701, HD-650, HD-598 to be fairly accurate with some mild colorations. The DJ100 is also not too excessively revealing of detail. I mean it's there, but doesn't shove it in your face. It does pick out flaws, but not like the KRKs or some other headphones. I'd like to think it's supposed to be accurate, but slightly musical and non-fatiguing. I wouln't want the DJ100 to sound like a DT-880.
 
When I had the DT-880 it was too cold and analytical. Didn't sound even remotely warm. The variation between recordings was greater than I've heard on any other headphone. I remember when I had it I had to weed out all my garbage tracks. Not just the ones that had lower bit-rates. Some songs would sound amazing and then the next extremely bad. It really did feel like I was putting my music under a microscope.
 
I liked the DT-880, but I prefer just a tad more warmth. I actually found the old K701 a little less revealing and warmer. Of course the Q701 is now what I use. Not a fan of the DT-880's mids at all. Strangely it sounds more like a mild v-shaped signature to me. When I tried it with gaming it really did sound like it had recessed mids, but who knows.
 
Believe it or not the DT-770 600ohm I had once was flatter than the DT-880 versions I had. The DT-770 is supposed to be quite V-shaped I thought. I scored a pair once for $110!
 
BTW one headphone that sounds similar to the DT-880 is the Koss A/250. It's mids are probably even thinner, but it has too much treble and not enough bass. It's one bizarre headphone and I think i'd only like it with a very warm sounding source and amp.

 

[Makiah S]

Quote:

 
You can't really compare the DT-880 to the DJ100. Accurate just meaning it doesn't butcher the recording. Some songs would sound amazing and then the next extremely bad. It really did feel like I was putting my music under a microscope.
 
I liked the DT-880, but I prefer just a tad more warmth. I actually found the old K701 a little less revealing and warmer. Of course the Q701 is now what I use. Not a fan of the DT-880's mids at all. Strangely it sounds more like a mild v-shaped signature to me. When I tried it with gaming it really did sound like it had recessed mids, but who knows.
 
 

Sorry, that comment comes from my hate of what I suppose is a a BAD couple of Dj 100's againthe dj 200 was GREAT I LOVED It and the price, the 100 meh
 
non the less, the dt 880 pro 250 [or the one I Have] and I use a solid state Maxtrix M Stage witha L4990 op amp, non the less I LOVE my 880 with vocals, it BLOWS my mind how much warmth and energy the vocals have, non the less it's terrible thin for rock music which is why I own the w1000x.
 
In addition it may have been a power issue for ou as well, under power the 880 and the mids r terrible. With to much power the same issue. I run about 10db gain for mine, and yea with gaming the mids r well not forward BUT it does sound linear to me, the highs r slighty more forward then the mids, but mids and bass and highs r realitivly all close to one another. Non more forward or recessed than the other. In addition the dt 880 does really well with lower mids, upper mids r pretty horrifying on them <.< where as all treble has a nice texture
 
but back to the point, has any one written a letter to Koss about thier inconsistent Dj 100s q.q [that Dj 200 still impresses me!] When I get some exyta cash I might try the TBSE 1 which is apprently at Dj x00 rebranding, I would like to have a sub $100 can for when I go walking and exerciseing... and the porta pro does not fit my brain sadly q.q [sounds awesome fits terribly] 
 
who knows I mind find one for sale a TBSE with m50 pads! That would be nice as I'd really like to enjoy these, as I have a soft spot for Koss [my first cans EVER where Koss Td 75's, still got em shoved in a draw some where lol] 

 

[Hairspray]

Quote:

I can't believe how many songs have bloated bass IN the recording. It's just ridiculous. The DJ100 is pretty good at keeping it accurate,

 
Is the DJ 100 - with the M50 pads - really that good at keeping the bass departement accurate?
If so many songs sound like they have bloated bass, I doubt it's primarily due to the mastering, it’s rather the Koss that struggles - with the M50's - to control properly important and fast bass variations.
With compressed songs (dynamic compression, not bit compression) the bass is tamed properly, and in fact a lot of compressed song are bass heavy, like the teenie dance-pop garbage, FM rock,... I think that says it all. But, again, IMO it is not a Koss design flaw, it's clearly a side-effect of the ATH pads.
Anyway, the DJ 100 is not that good that it fits in the «****-in/****-out» category (hd800, srh940, dt880, kns8400 and many others).
I doubt a lot of sound engineers would use it for analytical listening, and mastering with those cans could easily become a disaster.
One could pretend the Beats are also highly neutral phones that show with a remarkable accuracy that almost all modern songs «have bloated bass IN the recording»...
 
Thanks for the DIY tip, but I guess I won't try to drill holes or something. I'm not good at that. lol.
But I will definitively try the DT-250 pads (I have both the velours and the pleather ones) as well as the DT-100 velours pad (if those monsters fit) to see what happens... haha..
A DT250 vs DJ100 review would be way beyond my skills. I'm not good a describing things with the right words and I have max 0.5% of your audiophile knowledge... 
BTW, are your cups made of aluminium? Mine are plastic.

 

[laon]

Quote:

BTW, are your cups made of aluminium? Mine are plastic.

Not him but I have DJ100, bought in 2011, I dunno if it's aluminium but it's definitely metal.

 

[tdockweiler]

Quote:

 
Is the DJ 100 - with the M50 pads - really that good at keeping the bass departement accurate?
If so many songs sound like they have bloated bass, I doubt it's primarily due to the mastering, it’s rather the Koss that struggles - with the M50's - to control properly important and fast bass variations.
With compressed songs (dynamic compression, not bit compression) the bass is tamed properly, and in fact a lot of compressed song are bass heavy, like the teenie dance-pop garbage, FM rock,... I think that says it all. But, again, IMO it is not a Koss design flaw, it's clearly a side-effect of the ATH pads.
Anyway, the DJ 100 is not that good that it fits in the «****-in/****-out» category (hd800, srh940, dt880, kns8400 and many others).
I doubt a lot of sound engineers would use it for analytical listening, and mastering with those cans could easily become a disaster.
One could pretend the Beats are also highly neutral phones that show with a remarkable accuracy that almost all modern songs «have bloated bass IN the recording»...
 
Thanks for the DIY tip, but I guess I won't try to drill holes or something. I'm not good at that. lol.
But I will definitively try the DT-250 pads (I have both the velours and the pleather ones) as well as the DT-100 velours pad (if those monsters fit) to see what happens... haha..
A DT250 vs DJ100 review would be way beyond my skills. I'm not good a describing things with the right words and I have max 0.5% of your audiophile knowledge... 
BTW, are your cups made of aluminium? Mine are plastic.

 
I definitely would have to disagree. Mine with even the Magni+Modi (or ODAC) is as revealing as my Q701, KRKs and HD-650. By my estimates about 2.5x as revealing as the HD-800. OK, only kidding there. I'd rather not know anything about the HD-800 because i'd never be able to afford it. I honestly don't listen to music enough to want to pay $1500 for a headphone. To me, too many people say "Headphone A is so much more detailed than headphone B", but never give any references of songs. I do this all the time too and get sick of analyzing  and random things that aren't all that important to the music.I mean for me, there is rarely anything that's not heard on my other headphones. Usually when it is it's just a easier to hear due to a boost in a specific frequency. I generally don't even want a detail monster. All the detail is there for me, but somehow doesn't really draw any attention to itself.
 
I'd rather use it over a M50 or V6 in a studio any day. I'd probably have the KRKs and a bunch of other headphones too. Usually when I hear the DJ100, the songs sound pretty close to how they sound on the HD-580 and HD-650. Actually closer to a mix of the K701 and HD-560 perhaps. It's hard to explain and I guess that doesn't help anyone! My DJ100 isn't as warm or as forgiving as the HD-650.
 
If I was given $50 to try to find something on my Q701 that's not there on my DJ100 i'd probably fail. Sure, the Q701 is a bit more airy sounding, but that doesn't count

 
For me the level of detail really depends on the DAC (and amp, but not so much). I swear that sometimes I felt my Ipod Touch 2G was more detailed than my ODAC! The ODAC never once felt like any sort of detail monster, which is a plus.
 
Also, the cups are 100% aluminum. Well outside at least. Inside there is plastic, but below that is really thick metal. It's not thin at all and I only realized this when I tried to make an open DJ100. Let's just say that didn't go so well.
 
Maybe the versions in Europe have more plastic but I doubt it.
 
If you're 100% sure it's all plastic I would look inside and take pictures if you can. I don't think Koss would release a DJ100 version that has plastic cups. The area surrounding the driver IS all plastic though.
 
EDIT: forgot you had asked about the M50 pads and how accurate the bass is. I feel it's very, very accurate. Not bloated or emphasized too much. Some slight emphasis, but not much. I really don't even think they have a mid-bass hump, so maybe not really. I also find my newest HD-650 to have accurate bass too and when comparing songs on both, the HD-650 and DJ100 get it right. The Q701..not so much. At least not the low-bass.
 
BTW even the HD-600 (at least the one I have) has more of a mid-bass hump than the DJ100. Now my HD-580 has nearly dead neutral bass, but less low bass extension than my HD-650.
 
Can't say it enough, but the DJ100 is 100% NOT for bassheads. It has less than even the newest M50, which I don't find bass heavy, but close! My first M50 had much more bloated bass.