k701 to proline 2500

[Sovkiller]

Quote:

Originally Posted by hungrych Are you really naive enough to think that manufacturers should be allowed to extol the virtues of their own products in regular threads?

Nope, that is the last thing I want, just would like them to explain their designs and asnwer a few questions while they are asked by others...period, they right now, are not even allowed to do that, so who will do it for them?

BTW what is the difference on having a manufacturer extolling the vitues of their products, and having a designer, but non manufactuerer extolling the virtues of his/hers, that others manufacture and sell??

 

[music_man]

come on guys. this has gotten totally off topic. just be nice.

music_man.

 

[Mercuttio]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ultrasone Canada Mercuttio, I dont know what I did to rub you the wrong way, so please, take it easy. As I've said before, in no way, shape or form have I or will I try to sell anything on these forums, nor will I try to sway people away from other brands, or badmouth any other headphones. Just to clarify, I have sampled quite a bit of the competition, of course....it's good to know what the other sound like, so I know what I'm talking about when I speak of Ultrasone. In addition, as I've stated before...I'm pretty much the only member here that has sampled all of the products from Ultrasone, so IMHO, I would be a good source of information on any of the products. That being said, I must limit myself to FACT only, as any of my opinions on the product would obviously come off as biased. So if someone asks "what should I get? AKG or Ultrasone?" and I come in pushing Ultrasone, well, obviously, thats out of line. But if someone asks what type of drivers the PROline 2500 has, or needs some info on the different models, I do not see why it is a problem for me to step in.

Flat out. I'm not comfortable with you being here. You are a vendor of one specific brand of headphones, and you popped in here to go on about the virtues of the headphone you sell. If someone wants a vendor to tell them what different Ultrasone models do, well, why wouldn't they just call a vendor?

You are a shill. There is no discussion here.

 

[Salt Peanuts]

Just some bit from the Head-Fi Rules/Terms of Use.

Quote:

"Member of the Trade" includes (but is not limited to) manufacturers; individuals selling items he or she made for more than the cost of parts and/or actual shipping charges; individuals selling items acquired for the primary purpose of resale; individuals performing services (like modifications or any other service) for which the price charged is more than the cost of parts and/or actual shipping charges; dealers; distributors; manufacturer's representatives; importers; magazine and e-zine writers. "Main Forums" are those forums within Head-Fi not specifically designated as areas for commercial advertising by Members of the Trade. No Members of the Trade can use his/her business name, postal address, e-mail address, telephone number or URL as part of his/her moniker. All Members of the Trade must contact the forum administrator at jude@head-fi.org to notify him of an interest in posting before making any posts. If a forum member who was not previously a Member of the Trade becomes a Member of the Trade, he must notify the forum administrator of the change in status. After notification of the "Member of the Trade" status, the forum administrator will then add the appropriate tag (Audio Dealer, Manufacturer, Distributor, etc.) to the appropriate profile(s). A Member of the Trade may not--via the forums, Private Messaging, or Head-Fi's e-mail relay function--volunteer any information about a specific product that he is selling or making, in response to a general request for information about a type of product or in any other discussion in the Main Forums. A Member of the Trade may not post announcements, advertisements, sales information or the like about a product he makes or sells in the Main Forums, via Private Messaging, or via Head-Fi's e-mail relay function."

 

[jpelg]

Ultrasone Canada is recognized by the moderator staff as an MOT, and a designation in his avatar is forthcoming. MOT's are on a short leash around here, walking a very fine line and they know it.

At this point, no rules have been maliciously violated, although this thread has been derailed waaaaay offtrack. Let's try to play nice in the sandbox and let the mods do their job if/when necessary. Thanks y'all.

Be cool.

 

[Sovkiller]

Well coming back to the main theme, is there any other input about he Ultrasone headphones in particular???

 

[music_man]

yeah, as to the original post of mine,

i'd like to know if anyone else that is quite experienced with both the k701 and the 2500 can comment on their perspective.

my main problems with the k701 are lack of realistic soundstage,not much realistic deep bass, and the build quality is not what i expect from akg(that is the real sour grape for me). mine have over 300 hours now. i have plenty of good amp stock, so we don't need to go there. they are just not my flavor.

i like the hd650 better too. it has way better build quality than both the k701 and 2500 indeed. i might change my tune if and when the headband on my 2500 snaps.


the lack of comfort on the 2500's is a big issue for me but i am getting used to it just like grado's 'sandpaper'.
their sound is much more laid back and fluid than grados save for the gs1000. i think this is also a good phone for reduced volume levels.
sovkiller said this compares favorably to any grado(including the gs1000) and i agree! the gs1000 is the grado most like this can even if it is not really that similar. it is also the most ungrado grado intrestingly.

there, we come to something that is completely overlooked! the fact that the ultrasones are made first with hearing protection in mind. most people here never even think of that. they are solely intrested in sq. wait ten years and get back to me on this. so even if they are not the absolute best sound ala r10 they bring something that should be even more important to the table. that is, if their technology actually works, i say it does, my volume knobs all went down between 2 and 4 notches depending on the amp i was using with these! not due to efficiency, due to getting the soundstage at lessor volumes.

next time there is a fotm i wait. it seems lot's of people are going back to the hd650 and the other mainstays after the k701. guess it's honeymoon is over.

even the gs1000 is getting critiqued now. well a new grado or akg is a celebration in and of itself, regardless of how good or bad they turn out to be.

hmm. i wonder when ultrasone will introduce a new top product. i bet it goes unnoticed.

also, from everything i can tell the edition7 does have the same drivers as the 2500. the edition7 was admittedly made for luxury enthusiasts
and not so much for audio enthusiasts. sovkiller, can you provide information from ultrasone that states differently?

i do like the dual entry cord on the e7, even though a cardas or something is better. i am somewhat taken aback at how tiny the cable from the left to right cup is. there really is no room to replace it with a bigger awg so i cannot see how your special 'sistema' cable makes a huge impact on it's sound. if i really want to tear them apart it has a punch-out for dual entry on the right cup.

i wonder how much of this stuff is in or minds. how many people replace a single entry cord and leave the left-right jumper then claim the sound was substantially improved. if anything they should have a different signature in each cup now.

one thing i would like help with is something i am looking for.
either a 1/8" to 1/4" adapter where the 1/8" side is threaded or simply a threaded 1/8" solder on conector. again, with the tiny jumper cable in place will i just mess up the balance? if no one sees this burried in here in a couple of days i will post about it in diy and hope it is not considered a cross-post since this is going to get lost in my essay here.

i am still intrested in amps. it seems that the ra-1 or better 4556ad circuits seem to be the best i can find. save for the outrageous stuff in my post on page 3. i wonder why the ra-1 makes these sound better than the xcan? can anyone explain that? is it because 4556ad is for low impedance-high current? hence, the reason you are hard pressed to find a better amp for grados?
even though it is deceptively simple. the arguement always goes, "how long do you think it took them to figure out that simple circuit was the cake".
i guess it does not matter how many parts are present or the quality of them when driving certain loads.

sovkiller, could you please find out where rudi got the plug i speak of and pm me or something?

one other thing, i mean no harm to anyone in my posts, including to ultrasone canada. i think manufacturers here are not such a bad thing as long as they follow the rules which govern such entities.


thanks,
music_man.

 

[Sovkiller]

Quote:

Originally Posted by music_man sovkiller, could you please find out where rudi got the plug i speak of and pm me or something?

I was chatting with him today by coincidence, and there are indeed a few suppliers, same that suply them for Beyer, AKG, Ultrasone etc...the main problem is that they do not sell at retail, you have to purchase in 100+ quantities, and for us right now is not very feasible that way, if you want to pull the trigger, I may find out more details, and give you the contact info for those...

You can get also a new cable form them, and strip it down, and solder the new cable there and reconstruct the strain releif later on, not an easy task, but doable or from any other manufacturer...BTW Sony also uses them...

 

[Carl]

Quote:

Originally Posted by music_man ythe edition7 was admittedly made for luxury enthusiasts and not so much for audio enthusiasts.

That doesn't seem to be the case in Japan. Only the Omega 1 and the R10 (never seen a HE90 on sale over there) go for more on the used market, and the people buying them are audiophiles.

Japanese tastes differ from American and European tastes, of course, so they aren't very well regarded over here, but to a lot of Japanese people's ears they are one of the best sounding headphones ever made.


The unnaturalness of headphone soundstages is a very real issue. You can train yourself to not be bothered by them of course, but that's still learning to live with a problem rather than solving it. In my case, I opt to use Dolby Headphone over anything like crossfeed or angled drivers.

 

[music_man]

i cannot buy 100 of them. i was going to cut the cable at the top and solder on a better cable(is that what you meant,sovkiller?). what would be the point, it still has the bottle neck where it reaches the less quality cable at the top. also, their choice of a 1/8" plug was not the best. senns plugs or the akg mini xlr both make much more contact. that is why all the good gear uses 1/4" or xlr's.

maybe a better cable just isn't going to make a difference with these. i'd like to experiment though. cables seem to be the weak link on any headphones regardless of price or overall quality of the rest of the product. akg's new plug is silly marketing. "bi-wired", so it connects at the plug side instead of the cup side, big deal. i doubt ultrasone would have used that tiny jumper unless they thought it sounded satisfactory. who knows.

sovkiller, would you be willing to a/b the stock cable with rudi's cable and report back your findings if you still have the stock cable and don't mind?

is it worth it to splice together the cable? is that what rudi did with your cable? or did he get a plug as a sample? i see he has made several cables for them. did he have some other way of fitting a plug in there that did not screw?
mine all wont fit in. i'd really like to know how he got those cables plugged into the phones so i can make one. but like i said, is it worth it if i do not replace the tiny jumper wire? can you say what wire he used for that?
what would be awesome is if i could get a 1/8" to 1/4" adapter that fits. then i could use some serious cables and swap any time i want! i might file down a adapter but if it does not screw i doubt it will stay in. also this giant cable with conector is probably going to touch my shoulder. hmm. i might open up the cup and switch to the mini-xlr. i don't want to void my warranty though because of the supposed headband issues.

we need to find out if the distributer of those jacks has sold to any suppliers. than maybe i only need to purchase a handfull.

i know the japanese love them. the way they love a new cell phone every week. i don't think their ears are different, i just think they are used to having all the latest coolest stuff. how can it sound better to a japanese person than it does to a european or north american person? it is not like the difference between sushi and a burrito. i doubt ears have cultural differences but who knows? from everything i have read the e7 are not quite as impressive (sounding) as the 2500. since the e7 is more like a regular headphone sound. the whole thing with ultrasone is the soundstage. there are more involving and overall better headphones but i have never heard soundstage like that without using electronics(dolby). which i find unnatural.
these are special because they addresse the one shortcoming all headphones seem to have, even if they have other shortcomings themsleves.

every headphone is a compromise in some respect. the ultrasones are a unique experience. but wait a few weeks i am sure it will wear off like my fotm's always do. i'll be back in a month telling you how much superior brand 'x' is. probably.

i'm not stupid. thinking people change their mind as something more pleasing comes along. so far this has been all i listen too lately. granted the orpheus is a whole 'nother experience but i find it requires too much concentration and causes me to think about the equipment and the notes of the music rather than the music as a whole.

and to think that last week i thought my modded akg's were the cat's meow. untill these came along. i could just cut to the chase and ask what is the ultimate headphone in the world, but regardless of what answeres that question may garner such a beast truly does not exist. they all have strengths and weaknesses. i do however at the moment truly enjoy the new experience(for me) that these offer. soundstage has never really been provided on this level in any phone. my favorite loudspeakers are not the best or most expensive but provide (to me) the best imaging. soundstage is more important to me than a lot of other factors sonically speaking. maybe these won't wear off. my last headphones? yeah sure!


music_man

 

[cappellano]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ultrasone Canada Mercuttio, I dont know what I did to rub you the wrong way, so please, take it easy. As I've said before, in no way, shape or form have I or will I try to sell anything on these forums, nor will I try to sway people away from other brands, or badmouth any other headphones. Just to clarify, I have sampled quite a bit of the competition, of course....it's good to know what the other sound like, so I know what I'm talking about when I speak of Ultrasone. In addition, as I've stated before...I'm pretty much the only member here that has sampled all of the products from Ultrasone, so IMHO, I would be a good source of information on any of the products. That being said, I must limit myself to FACT only, as any of my opinions on the product would obviously come off as biased. So if someone asks "what should I get? AKG or Ultrasone?" and I come in pushing Ultrasone, well, obviously, thats out of line. But if someone asks what type of drivers the PROline 2500 has, or needs some info on the different models, I do not see why it is a problem for me to step in.

ehi intresting!! I have a pair of proline 750 and i was wondering how the 2200 sounds in comparison! can you help me?

 

[music_man]

ok. the sony plug seems to be easy to take apart. but i am not taking apart any of my sonys! do all the sonys with screw-ons use the same plug that just pulls apart? what are the cheapest sonys that use this plug? i will get them b-stock, still i'll probably pay $30 for the darn plug but that is better than buying 100 of them.

people have complained about the 2500's cable. so i figure it needs a replacement. then again, people have complained about ultrasone in general. i don't find the stock cable microphonic. it is however just a standard issue cheap cable as far as i can tell. not aftermarket cable quality.
i don't think any headphones come with really high end cables do they?
grado's 325 and above are ok but just ok.

music_man.

 

[VR6ofpain]

Quote:

Originally Posted by music_man i don't think any headphones come with really high end cables do they? grado's 325 and above are ok but just ok.

I like the cable on my AKG K601, though it is only a 3 conductor, so I guess it isn't true "Hi-Fi".
Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Japanese tastes differ from American and European tastes, of course, so they aren't very well regarded over here, but to a lot of Japanese people's ears they are one of the best sounding headphones ever made.

Do you think this is what could be going on with Ultrasone? Maybe they are tuned to the German ear?
Quote:

Originally Posted by cappellano ehi intresting!! I have a pair of proline 750 and i was wondering how the 2200 sounds in comparison! can you help me?

I am seriously considering buying the HFI-2200 ULE later this summer. If it is no better than my K601, I will return it. If it is better I will keep it and sell the K601's. Seems everyone has a different opinion of Ultrasone, and these opinions are in small quantities.

 

[music_man]

like i said the k701's 3 conductor cord is silly. so it is connected at the plug instead of at the cup side big deal. the jack is 3 conductor so it still shares a ground regardless. what difference does a longer wire make? it is not balanced. the k701 just doesnt do it for me. i don't want to sell mine because i want more than anyone will pay and i don't want to return it because that isn't nice sportsmanship. so it collects dust.

do you guys think the 2200ule is better than the 2500 or you like it because it is less money? i pointed out no one will discount the ultrasones. other brands get discounted left and right. i think the money went into the driver,research and design. the plastic seems to leave a lot to be desired.
the fit is growing on me though. i can now wear them longer than the rs-1.

hey, isn't saying different people in different parts of the world hear differently like a biased statement? i don't mean to start this thread into the toilet yet again, but i just don't see how any humans ears are different in a different culture. sure people can enjoy different foods etc. but i bet we all hear the same. i don't really know though i am wondering.

anyways, you know i like my ultrasones by now and i am american.

music_man

 

[VR6ofpain]

I have German speakers in my main room and one of my cars, and I like them. I wasn't trying to say German's had 'less good' ears or something. I was just going by what you said about the Japanese. Just like different people across the world have different tastes in food, style, morality...I think they could have different tastes in sound. Just like a lot of young kids today prefer bass heavy distorted crap, with some fool barking into a mic [read: rap music], it is possible that listeners in other countries might prefer a different sound. Though this argument doesn't mean much here, since I Head-Fi prefers all these sound types. I mean I own American cans made in USA, Austrian cans made in Austria, Austrian cans made in China, German cans made in China, etc.

People love Senn and they are German. So why is it no one loves Ultrasone?

I am still very interested in that HFI-2200 ULE, mainly because there are so few real opinions about it, and the described sound signature is something I prefer. I am of the 'musical' preference, not analytical. I like accuracy, but I would rather have heart. There little description of wine sounded intriguing.