k701 to proline 2500

[Kees]

I once saw a special edition of the Rudistor NX-02 in combination with a recabled Ultrasone 2500 on the Rudistor site. I e-mailed them about that, but they had decided to discontinue the NX-02 (probably too expensive compared to their NX01). The next moment both the NX-02 and the Ultrasone where gone from the site. But they must have been realy impressed by these phones to make a special edition pakkage like that. If I remember correctly it cost (total pakkage) about 2500 euro........

 

[music_man]

well, they are so uncomfortable! the dt770 has a similar feel. but at least my ears go all the way inside the beyers. these are 'almost' circumaural, not quite. which is downright painfull.

where can i get a screw-plug adapter 1/8" to go make a cable?
the ones i find do not screw on and won't fit.

thanks,
music_man.

 

[Sovkiller]

Quote:

Originally Posted by music_man well, they are so uncomfortable! the dt770 has a similar feel. but at least my ears go all the way inside the beyers. these are 'almost' circumaural, not quite. which is downright painfull. where can i get a screw-plug adapter 1/8" to go make a cable? the ones i find do not screw on and won't fit. thanks, music_man.

You must have a really big ears...LOL...

Mine go inside, but the comfort is an issue, they are not as comfy an other cans, right now I could wear them for long time with no problems, no big deal, but switching to the CD3K, there is a difference for sure

 

[Lostlamb]

This thread has enticed me to add a pair of Proline 2500 to my Amazon wish list.

 

[music_man]

hey, if everyone goes and buys them because of me don't hate me if you don't like them

i said they are not for everybody.

sovkiller, what amps do you like with these besides rudistor? if that is a fair question.

it seems they do not need very robust amplification. they seem to do better for me with the furman(balanced) then the grace. probably because the furman is pretty transparent just like the headphones. anyone know what amps are in the high end furman distrobution units?

i just watched return of the jedi with them. wow. i was looking behind me! but at the end my ears hurt pretty bad. they are like a 5.1 speaker system! i mean, like genelec,jmlab,m&k,dynaudio. real neutral and precise, the good stuff.

mine now have over 400 hours maybe even more and they are not bright at all. even though i said they are completely neutral i think they emphasize the midrange. well at least on the recordings that center on the midrange. again, they seem to play only what is there. one strange thing though. on a certain rap/r&b song(i know) i cannot hear a laser effect that is present only on the dt770. i think you can only hear that when the bass is totally exagerated maybe. anyhow i think these could be described as a much more accurate/realistic dt-770.

everyone keep one thing in mind about all i have praised these though, i said "i am easy to please". also, the apparent plasticky build quality tight grip and the fact that they constantly readjust themselves really detracts from my sonic enjoyment of them.

slwiser, there is no chart for the proline 2500 on your site! do you have one?

music_man.

 

[music_man]

this is not at all what i expected! what do you guys think about this? maybe this doesnt apply the way it normally does because of the way the waves hit your ears with the decentered drivers. i think it plays a trick on your brain and just sounds a lot better than this would suggest.


music_man.

 

[benjamind]

That is probably what the human ear picks up from diffuse-far-field studio monitors. Because of the way the drivers are placed this would change the response of the treble and upper midrange which is why some people say that different headphone placement produces different upper midrange and treble. I'm sure the drivers produce a much flatter frequency response than that displayed, because I spoke to a friend who uses them (he uses synths like Vanguard, and he also uses AAS-modelling collection too) on his digital audio workstation notebook. I'm not sure what amp he uses, but he says it's an expensive one, costing around $1k, and I don't want to spend 1k on an amp if I don't need to. He says they are absolutely the flattest headphones he's ever heard and that's coming from AKG701s and AKG240s, he's also uses Fostex and he used Beyerdynamics a while ago too and he says just about every headphone he has used is inferior compared to the Ultrasones. He is referring to the soundstage and spatial depth of the soundfield that these phones supposedly create. I've never heard them myself but I trust my friend, he's been in audio for 10 years now. He has used the 2500s, 650s and 750s. Says the 650s are nice, but the 750s and 2500s resolve better and are fussier with sources hence his $1k amp and his DAC. He kept the 2500s because he prefers an open phone rather than a closed one because he says as a rule the treble and upper midrange is a little airier with an open phone.

He says that since he's used the Ultrasones, he only rarely uses his ADAM P22A studio monitors (these speakers have phenomenal bass extension). That in and of itself speaks volumes about the quality of the Ultrasones and that they are designed with the sole purpose of mastering. He has mastered several tracks with these phones, and played them back on his ADAMs and they translated pretty well especially the bass and midrange, he did a bit of tweaking with the treble, because let me tell you the ADAM monitors are treble freaks - they're not harsh, they're not sibilant, but boy do they produce treble like nothing else, and it's so fast and crisp and nimble, I couldn't believe the imaging and depth of the sound that came out of them when I heard them a while back. You could literally imagine the entire band playing in front of you with these, and could point exactly where the individual instruments were placed. Shame my room has such poor acoustic properties, I'd love to buy a pair of Artists, but alas my room would not suit them, the walls are a somewhat flexible wooden-like veneer and the wall cavities are mainly empty, with weatherboard on the outside, with little insulation. I can get halfway decent sound with some cheap speakers and a cheap sub, but I would never ever mix on studio monitors in the room.

 

[music_man]

i totally agree with everything you said. they are truly neutral, more so than the k701. so i would have to agree with what you said about the graph. i can't even understand that, it seems to be at 10k instead of 20? what in the world.

these are the most unheadphone headphones i have ever heard.
i think you can really only be used to this if you are in the recording industry and use wide field monitors. they are just not what the audiophile is used to. if you can get used to them you might not look back.

it is studio monitors for your head.

the imaging and detail is second to none on good live recordings. the problem is most studio cd's are mixed/mastered on stuff like nuendo/pro tools today and don't sound pretty on the ultrasones. most audiophiles would hate studio monitors flat response. since i use wide field monitors all day it is a natural extension for me. cd's are mixed with the understanding they will be played back on ipods and car stereos, not reference equipment.

why do most people in japan put them above the w5000? the japanese love them and americans/europeans tend to hate them. strange. considering that the edition7 used the same driver at $3150...... i know you guys really hate those. in japan they are fetching a whole lot more than $3150 now!

they seem to mate well with pro audio amps(not the ones from gc for $50) or the ssl headphone section. which is no wonder given what they are designed for. i wonder if there are any smaller portable amps that are completely neutral.

i am not sure i want to change the cable now. good cables add warmth and bottom end. you should see how tiny their awg is. i do not find it microphonic as some did.


music_man.

 

[benjamind]

I own a Xin SuperMini-3 and that little amp cost me a bit, but it sounds excellent with my Sensaphonic 2X-S canalphones.

Just wondering what it sounds like with the Ultrasone 2500s.

Music-Man, you are correct about them being studio monitors. My friend said nothing else comes close. He says the 2500s sound like the ADAM Mastering Piece and he's heard them in a studio and he says they're the best he's heard so far, but at almost $60k AUD they are very expensive. Now, for a little bit under $600AUD (the price he paid for them) he says he can get a similar sound, so that says quite a lot.

 

[Jap]

[size=small]How do the Proline 2500 compare to the Joe Grado HP1/2 with respect to neutrality and transparency? Are they as flat and as transparent as the legendary Grados?[/size]

 

[Mastergill]

Hey, you guys piqued my curiosity about these headphones. I highly doubt they can be more neutral and transparent than HD650 which to my ears set a new standart about low coloration for a dynamic headphone as i like to say. And my 'reference' is Rogers LS5/9 BBC monitor that i've used for 10 years, a pretty amazing and neutral speaker, who, like HD650, can be paired with ultra high-end amplification costing up to 10 times the price of the speakers without showing 'limitation'.

I'll try to demo or buy one, at €240 they're quite cheap around here, that will allow me to buy fuel for my flamethrower too!

 

[Sovkiller]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jap [size=small]How do the Proline 2500 compare to the Joe Grado HP1/2 with respect to neutrality and transparency? Are they as flat and as transparent as the legendary Grados?[/size]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mastergill Hey, you guys piqued my curiosity about these headphones. I highly doubt they can be more neutral and transparent than HD650 which to my ears set a new standard about low coloration for a dynamic headphone as i like to say. And my 'reference' is Rogers LS5/9 BBC monitor that I've used for 10 years, a pretty amazing and neutral speaker, who, like HD650, can be paired with ultra high-end amplification costing up to 10 times the price of the speakers without showing 'limitation'. I'll try to demo or buy one, at €240 they're quite cheap around here, that will allow me to buy fuel for my flamethrower too!

BTW, IMO the HD650 is anything but neutral, they offer a good peak on the bass region, very pronounced to my taste...but I agree that they do sound very good, not my cup of tea, at all, but nobody can say the opposite, the 600 is a lot more neutral IME...

But if you are going to get the Ultrasones to A/B them against any other headphone continuously, instead of trying them for some time alone, then forget about them, you will waste your time and money, as you will not like them at all....The Ultrasone headphones and sound, needs to be heard, and need some time to get used to, they do not sound anything similar to any headphone you have heard, that is the main difference...any comparison is futile IMO....the presentation change completely the perception of the sounds...when you get used to them, then the rest may sound a little weird to you...the sound is not an issue, the presentation is what indeed is completely different....

 

[Mastergill]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sovkiller BTW, IMO the HD650 is anything but neutral, they offer a good peak on the bass region, very pronounced to my taste...but I agree that they do sound very good, not my cup of tea, at all, but nobody can say the opposite, the 600 is a lot more neutral IME...

A neutral, colorless sound is more about low harmonics distortions than flat frequency response. I'm amazed that most of the dudes around don't talk about that. However, i agree that both are important for an accurate sound, but the thing you have to cherish is that damn harmonic distortion, i.e. the shape of the soundwave. Flat frequency response dictate the amount, the balance, between bass medium treble, this is different than the tonal accuracy, the respect of the original timbre.

Also a spike in that frequency response is much more damaging than a drop. All near-field mini monitors have a serious roll-off in the bass below 70-80 Hz, yet (the good ones) are dead accurate for medium and highs, because they are tonally accurate, low distortion transducers.

If you can't hear it, you can measure it. Sennheiser specs are 0.1% THD for the HD600 and 0.05% for the HD650. Those numbers don't need to be very precise, it's the difference that is more important. The HD650 is more neutral than the HD600 because it distorts less. I heard that before even looking at the specs believe me. You need very accurate upstream gears too, it's a whole chain.

IME, HD650's bass response is flatter than HD600, they corrected the HD600's midbass hump. Now i think that HD650s are so revealing between 20 to 70 Hz that they will show anything that can go wrong in your upstream gear and it's not easy to have very low frequencies done right at you source level first (especially with CDs) and with your amps.

 

[Sovkiller]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mastergill A neutral, colorless sound is more about low harmonics distortions than flat frequency response. I'm amazed that most of the dudes around don't talk about that. However, i agree that both are important for an accurate sound, but the thing you have to cherish is that damn harmonic distortion, i.e. the shape of the soundwave. Flat frequency response dictate the amount, the balance, between bass medium treble, this is different than the tonal accuracy, the respect of the original timbre. Also a spike in that frequency response is much more damaging than a drop. All near-field mini monitors have a serious roll-off in the bass below 70-80 Hz, yet (the good ones) are dead accurate for medium and highs, because they are tonally accurate, low distortion transducers. If you can't hear it, you can measure it. Sennheiser specs are 0.1% THD for the HD600 and 0.05% for the HD650. Those numbers don't need to be very precise, it's the difference that is more important. The HD650 is more neutral than the HD600 because it distorts less. I heard that before even looking at the specs believe me. You need very accurate upstream gears too, it's a whole chain. IME, HD650's bass response is flatter than HD600, they corrected the HD600's midbass hump. Now i think that HD650s are so revealing between 20 to 70 Hz that they will show anything that can go wrong in your upstream gear and it's not easy to have very low frequencies done right at you source level first (especially with CDs) and with your amps.

First what you know about the setups in which I have heard the HD650, and about the amps I have heard? Again we are going for the same crap, here we go, again!!!! So you need a minimum a Wadia or a Linn or a $100,000.00 tag and how much of an amp, 10,000.00 minimum (well, I have heard an enjoyed for a whole week, $13,000.00 RP1000 just FYI) But if I need it to make the HD650 shine, sorry I'll pass any time of my life then....as honestly I'm almost completely satisfied with the sound I got now from my humble setup, and IMO spending more will not make it better, just more miserable my wallet, I have tried more expensive ones, and that is not our main problem (in the case of the ones who like rock and jazz-rock like me), there are some limitations of the media, and recordings I use, that will not be improved by that, but that is the music I like and enjoy...and of course red-book has limitations, but which not, and I have also SACD...but are you satisfied with yours? I know that must of the times, at your level, people get never satisfied....

But just FYI, I have heard a very good setups, (not only mine) and some of the best amps in the market, if not all of them, hooked in very good sources, probably the best setups available to me (and probably to many of us) not sure about you, and non of them, have make the HD650 to sound 100% right to me....better? yes, enjoyable? yes, but right? sorry, nope...if not I would got it long time ago, it is far cheaper than the CD3K, nowadays...

BTW neutrality (and accuracy) here in head-fi, and to me, not sure in your book, is indeed the fact of reproducing the sound as accurate as possible to the original recording, but that includes, as you stated the distortion, but not only that, the flat freq response is a must BTW accuracy, that always will be a total mystery for the majority of us, as we will never know for sure, how the recording was indeed done in the first instance. BTW those are the specs they publish, as any other company intended to sell you a product, do you believe what they say? OK how about freq response 10-39KHz. Do you really believe that the HD650 go lower and higher than the R-10 or even than the CD3K both are rated at 20-20K, in their dreams!!! They must be joking!!!!....

BTW is any of your tube amps anything closer to that figure? Second harmonics is tube amps are rather high, and very difficult to control.....but you may be right, as usual....

An no offense intended....OK?....

 

[HFat]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sovkiller The Ultrasone headphones and sound, needs to be heard, and need some time to get used to, they do not sound anything similar to any headphone you have heard

Are you talking about all the Ultrasones or only about some of them (or indeed about two of them, the 2500 and the Edition 7)?
I'm curious enough to buy a relatively cheap model, but I'd only do if it it would be worthwhile. Do you know if there any cheaper models that could give one a taste of that special presentation?