k701 to proline 2500

[music_man]

i am talking only about the proline 2500.

the cheaper ones are not nearly as good, but still a good value. i can safely say that the 2500 is "a world classs reference headphone". i brought it today to compare to my friends qualia and r10(big sony fan, who can blame him?). while they sound different, he was quite dissapointed to agree that the 2500 is more lifelike in it's presentation! this is a different class of headphone than akg's and beyers(all of them). which also have their roots seated in the pro industry. it is like what the dt770 should be. goes super low and is super controled. imaging is unheard of in a headphone. by the way the k701 is so comfortable that it falls off my head and from that the silver ring busted in two. the silver was already flaking off of it anyways. nothing is built the way it used to be(ala joe grado). these are built for basic utility in the studio not looks. the money went into the driver. the headband is somewhat different than the hd280 so hopefully it does not snap at some point. intrestingly there is one person here that has another brand of phones with titanium drivers whom also said they sound better than 701's. he should hear these, because i have heard the ones he has(ok, koss) and they don't come close to these.

i'd bet the edition7 does not sound as good as the 2500, but i don't know. it is the proline 750 with a centered driver, so you make your own assumption on that.

as usual my 4556ad based amps are powering these the best. as with most high current low impedance studio phones. a really good 4556ad amp(we are talking much more sophisticated than the ra-1) can be built for less than $100with the power supply!

anyhow, these are a whole new experience and i am loving it! i can understand it is not everyones cup of tea. like sovkiller said give it a month and don't a/b and don't look back! even though i have been a/b'ing i find these better simply because i am used to the recording enviorment. for the usual audiophile they may take a lot of getting used to. once you have you can hear the music the way it is really presented.

sovkiller, i cannot see how you even like the cd3000 better? well, you are using a crossfeed and bass boost so maybe complete neutrality gets boring and harsh for you too? i find that even against the 010 and r10 these hold their own in many ways! you want to talk about worth the money! and to think people said they were not. but that was in a 10 minute listening session. even one guy here decided he hated them in 20 minutes, decided to burn them in and listened another 20 minutes and still hated them. sounds like he made up his mind ahead of time. you can find big time engineers and artists wearing these that are not endorsed to do so. still, that does not mean they are the best for playback. so i can see most everyones arguement that dislikes them.


edit: i forgot to mention that after trying the qualias for a half hour i am no longer complaining about the comfort of these! i also hear that the qualias headband is prone to snapping in half too(and costs $500 to replace). egads!


music_man

 

[Sovkiller]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HFat Are you talking about all the Ultrasones or only about some of them (or indeed about two of them, the 2500 and the Edition 7)? I'm curious enough to buy a relatively cheap model, but I'd only do if it it would be worthwhile. Do you know if there any cheaper models that could give one a taste of that special presentation?

All of them includes the S-Logic sound, I even ask them for a non S-Logic version of Ultrasone headphones and they refused completelly the idea...The y said that no Ultrasone heapdhone will hit the market with centered drivers, as that is the main reason they do that, to offer a different product, so no Ultrasones will sound as any other heapdhone, and that includes the cheapest models as well....those were the words of Cathy Kelly, Ultrasone USA "Goddess" (BTW she looks also gorgeous, but that is another issue....

)

Well to be honest with you, indeed I have heard only those two mainly, for more time, but according to what Dr. Florian said to me, all of them offer the same presentation, (quality of sound and sound signature is different in all models of course), but what makes them a little hard to accept, is the presentation, not the quality of the sound...but once you get used to the presentation, then the small nuances of the sound come right out fo them...

Quote:

Originally Posted by music_man "....I can safely say that the 2500 is "a world classs reference headphone". I brought it today to compare to my friends qualia and r10 (big sony fan, who can blame him?). while they sound different, he was quite dissapointed to agree that the 2500 is more lifelike in it's presentation! this is a different class of headphone than akg's and beyers(all of them). which also have their roots seated in the pro industry. it is like what the dt770 should be. goes super low and is super controled. imaging is unheard of in a headphone. by the way the k701 is so comfortable that it falls off my head and from that the silver ring busted in two. the silver was already flaking off of it anyways. nothing is built the way it used to be(ala joe grado). these are built for basic utility in the studio not looks. the money went into the driver. the headband is somewhat different than the hd280 so hopefully it does not snap at some point. intrestingly there is one person here that has another brand of phones with titanium drivers whom also said they sound better than 701's. he should hear these, because i have heard the ones he has(ok, koss) and they don't come close to these. i'd bet the edition7 does not sound as good as the 2500, but i don't know. it is the proline 750 with a centered driver, so you make your own assumption on that. as usual my 4556ad based amps are powering these the best. as with most high current low impedance studio phones. a really good 4556ad amp(we are talking much more sophisticated than the ra-1) can be built for less than $100with the power supply! anyhow, these are a whole new experience and i am loving it! i can understand it is not everyones cup of tea. like sovkiller said give it a month and don't a/b and don't look back! even though i have been a/b'ing i find these better simply because i am used to the recording enviorment. for the usual audiophile they may take a lot of getting used to. once you have you can hear the music the way it is really presented. sovkiller, i cannot see how you even like the cd3000 better? well, you are using a crossfeed and bass boost so maybe complete neutrality gets boring and harsh for you too? i find that even against the 010 and r10 these hold their own in many ways! you want to talk about worth the money! and to think people said they were not. but that was in a 10 minute listening session. even one guy here decided he hated them in 20 minutes, decided to burn them in and listened another 20 minutes and still hated them. sounds like he made up his mind ahead of time. you can find big time engineers and artists wearing these that are not endorsed to do so. still, that does not mean they are the best for playback. so i can see most everyones arguement that dislikes them. edit: i forgot to mention that after trying the qualias for a half hour i am no longer complaining about the comfort of these! i also hear that the qualias headband is prone to snapping in half too(and costs $500 to replace). egads! music_man

First I do believe that the 2500 are not in the same class as the Edition 7, and even less, of the R-10 or the Qualias, and that is for sure, they are fun heapdhones, very good heapdhones, but those other two, are in my opinion sacred cows, that can not be touch so easily, those 2 are really true monsters, and I don't even think that Dr. Florian nor Ultrasone would think in comparing or placing them in the same category, as of course they are at different price points, and intended for different markets too...that is why they created the Edition 7, just to offer a product on that same league...sorry to disagree with you here, and just applying simple logic.

OTOH if you hear the opposite, for sure the system was at fault there, something was wrong there that did not let the other two shine as they were supposed to, in comparison, as IME, the R-10 or the Qualias in a good setup are nowhere similar in performance to the PROlines. OTOH and not trying to bash the 2500, as while it is true that the presentation is very good, and more lifelike if you hear them just straight out of the jack of any amp, it is true also that if you implement a few tweaks in the system, as I did, you can get similar results, and similar lifelike presentation in a different way, and you can make those sound even better, and will get a lot more resolving and enjoyable system. Sorry but the R-10, and Qualias, are IMO in a different class of heapdhones regarding the details, freq extension and micro and micro details...and the old Sony school, is completelly euphonic, which I enjoy a lot, I do not care too much about neutrality...as many know and as stated in my signature...

BTW Ultrasone do not fix the blob on the middle neither, while using stereo recordings, as there is no "bleeding" from one channel to the other, and that is what you need to get a total lifelike and more natural presentation, the only way to recreate that effect is with the use of the crossfeed (bravo for Tyll and Jan here!!!) or using a binaural recording, but it is true that they do offer a very good near-field effect that is a lot more natural than heapdhones straight out of the jack...

As a side note also: they do not use titanium drivers, they are Mylar with vaporized titanium (or some sort of that process) but they are not made of solid titanium, the titanium is just used as a coating on the diaphragm and that is completelly different, same as the gold ones...just to clear that point...OK? Do not get confused, if you want to check, just remove the pads, or simply just open them and you will see that the diaphragm is clear transparent with a hint of silverish color

The Edition 7 is a completelly different animal and story, they use there a lot more refined version of the S-logic sound, the drivers are more centered (but they are not 100% in the center neither, as I asked Rudi before ordering my front centered panels to mod mine, as I know that Rudi had repaired a pair by himself, so he knows for sure what is inside and according to him they are about 4 to 5 millimeters displaced from the center also) but they do offer the S-logic sound as well, and they are not 750 with centered drivers, not a chance...

...who told you that? Rudi needed to order one of the drivers directly from Ultrasone in Germany, as IIRC Ultrasone in any other part stock them...They use proprietary drivers, very small BTW, and of a very good quality. BTW very sensitive, expensive, and easy to damage BTW. So follow my advice, if you are DIYer, do not use the Edition Seven to test amps ok, any DC offset will burn and destroy those tiny drivers, as any other abuse as well...the rest fo the Ultrasone headphones, or at least the PROlines do, use a two diode bridge over the driver for added protection as they are intended for more abuse, and loud use in the pro and DJ market...

 

[music_man]

you are right. we were listening straight out of an ipod. i know with the right amp the r10 will kill the 2500. whats intresting is that the 2500 can sound good with the right cheap amp or even no amp. also what is intresting is that an ipod's out can pass for ok with almost any headphones. but let's not discuss that in this thread, ok? anyhow, i never liked the 010 and it is super uncomfortable to me and fragile too. better to be looked at then listened to, flame me! the r10 is a different story, that is a beauty to behold and hear.
as much so as the orpheus, but in different regards. although, i feel that the 2500 is based(probably not intentionaly) on the r10's laurels. maybe i am getting carried away but i love these now save for their comfort issues.

i find their build quality at this point to actually be higher than the k701, but not up to hd650 or k240 snuff. my k701 is falling apart in one week! actually it came with the plastic peices not fitting together good, and crummy finishing. the lettering is smeared and the silver color rubbed off the ring and then it busted anyhow! my hd650 i got when it came out and it is hardley even scratched same with k240 and k340. i don't own the k340 anymore though. granted, i am hard on gear. also, you can strech the heck out of these, just make SURE you only stretch the white rubber peice!


sovkiller, you mentioned them as a 'fun' can. i think you are backing down about them now. they are very dry,precise and unforgiving. i do not get the blob(s) with them as with the k701 or hd650. 'fun' is usually reserved for the less than stellar examples of headphones. people like that though. k240s,px100,dt770. those are hardley accurate phones. even though they are all very nice in other respects. a studio monitoring device has to present only the truth. i think these are spot on in that respect. which to the right people is indispensable. they may not be the last word in hi-fi but as far as i can see they are currently the last word in head-worn monitoring devices for the recording industry. since this is what i am terribly used to, these seem like home to me.

sovkiller, you said in another post the 2500 can stand their own with the k701,hd650 and ANY grado(rs-1?,gs-1000?) i think it was you, sorry if it was not. i agree. if you still maintain that, then they are pretty darn good. intresting that every store will heavily discount the aformentioned phones. no one will discount the ultrasones. i also find that some of the store owners that shun them seceretly own them! i can't really go into that though because that is based on personal conversations.

i'd agree though that putting them up against the r10(on a good amp) they will loose(in a competition of musicality, not precision). they are designed for precision which for the 20th. time is exactly what they are designed for(and achieve this wholly) which is exactly why they are not not so enjoyable to many people.

i wonder if the edition7 can hang with the other $3000+ phones. many naysayers of the 2500 say no way of the edition7 against it's proper company also. those same people said the edition7 is simply a polished 750 with lambskin earpads. so it is a different driver in the edition7? the cable looks better too. i kind of doubt a better cable for the 2500 will do much since the wire to the right cup is teeny tiny, it may actually ruin their sound. sovkiller, does your custom cable sound better than stock. or does it change their character?

anyhow, i guess pretty much everything has been said in this post.
anyone is welcome to go try them. i'd suggest you do.
i could get rid of all my other less than $1000 headphones and be happy with these. i even like them better than the w5000(don't currently own these though). i'll still take the r10

maybe these hit the mark of the k1000 successor better than the k701(imaging)? i didn't even get into comparing those. ahh....forget it lol. i had r10's when they first came out and returned them to the store(kicking myself right now)!
but i say they are at the top of the dynamic heap because no other phones have this technology and it works great for me at least.

keep in mind everything i have said is in respect to using them is as a recording monitor and i just happen to enjoy listening to recording monitors(since i hear them all day,everyday). again, many phones beat them for musicality and liquidity. speaking as a recording engineer, i don't know why i did'nt discover this seceret sooner.

ok, i think i have said enough about these now

{the only things i want to know now is if (sovkiller) can name some amps for these other than rudister and where to get a screw-on 1/8" adapter so i can play with cables(if it is worth it).} if you would just rather pm me that is fine.

music_man.

 

[Sovkiller]

Quote:

Originally Posted by music_man you are right. we were listening straight out of an ipod. i know with the right amp the r10 will kill the 2500. whats interesting is that the 2500 can sound good with the right cheap amp or even no amp. also what is interesting is that an ipod's out can pass for ok with almost any headphones. but let's not discuss that in this thread, ok? anyhow, i never liked the 010 and it is super uncomfortable to me and fragile too. better to be looked at then listened to, flame me! the r10 is a different story, that is a beauty to behold and hear. as much so as the Orpheus, but in different regards. although, i feel that the 2500 is based(probably not intentionally) on the r10's laurels. maybe i am getting carried away but i love these now save for their comfort issues.

Even out of the ipod is you were listening a high sampling rate, and a good recording the R-10 will crush the 2500 any day...

Quote:

i find their build quality at this point to actually be higher than the k701, but not up to hd650 or k240 snuff. my k701 is falling apart in one week! actually it came with the plastic pieces not fitting together good, and crummy finishing. the lettering is smeared and the silver color rubbed off the ring and then it busted anyhow! my hd650 i got when it came out and it is hardly even scratched same with k240 and k340. i don't own the k340 anymore though. granted, i am hard on gear. also, you can stretch the heck out of these, just make SURE you only stretch the white rubber piece! sovkiller, you mentioned them as a 'fun' can. i think you are backing down about them now. they are very dry, precise and unforgiving. i do not get the blob(s) with them as with the k701 or hd650. 'fun' is usually reserved for the less than stellar examples of headphones. people like that though. k240s,px100,dt770. those are hardly accurate phones. even though they are all very nice in other respects. a studio monitoring device has to present only the truth. i think these are spot on in that respect. which to the right people is indispensable. they may not be the last word in hi-fi but as far as i can see they are currently the last word in head-worn monitoring devices for the recording industry. since this is what i am terribly used to, these seem like home to me.

I mentioned it as a fun and very good cans both....and sorry but I'm not "backing them down", just that you are "highering them up" too much, they are not good at that level. About the fun aspect, no, you are wrong, the R-10 is also fun headphone to listen to, fun means to me, that the heapdhone involves you in the music...OTOH I have never liked any AKG headphone except the K-1000, so the comparison to me between the 2500 and any other AKG will be in favor fo the Ultrasone...


Quote:

sovkiller, you said in another post the 2500 can stand their own with the k701,hd650 and ANY Grado(rs-1?,gs-1000?) i think it was you, sorry if it was not. i agree. if you still maintain that, then they are pretty darn good. interesting that every store will heavily discount the aforementioned phones. no one will discount the Ultrasones. i also find that some of the store owners that shun them secretly own them! i can't really go into that though because that is based on personal conversations.

Well in front of those yes, as I do not consider those neither at that level the R-10 is. But do not compare them to the R-10....please!!!

Quote:

I'd agree though that putting them up against the r10(on a good amp) they will loose(in a competition of musicality, not precision). they are designed for precision which for the 20th. time is exactly what they are designed for(and achieve this wholly) which is exactly why they are not not so enjoyable to many people.

IMO in musicality, sound, freq response, comfort, quality of manufacture, sensitivity, quality of materials, durability, and whatever you want to compare them, the R-10 is simply in another class my friend. Talk all you want about them, but do not touch the R-10, OK

?
Just do yourself a favor, hear the R10 out of a decent amp, it does not has to be a top notch one, just a decent amp, and you will hear what I'm talking about...

Quote:

i wonder if the edition7 can hang with the other $3000+ phones. many naysayers of the 2500 say no way of the edition7 against it's proper company also. those same people said the edition7 is simply a polished 750 with lambskin earpads. so it is a different driver in the edition7? the cable looks better too. i kind of doubt a better cable for the 2500 will do much since the wire to the right cup is teeny tiny, it may actually ruin their sound. sovkiller, does your custom cable sound better than stock. or does it change their character?

I just auditioned the cable briefly and sent it to Ultrasone, along with a new amp for them, to evaluate. Evan in Ultrasone liked it, I had not time for a proper evaluation of the cable, I will let you know after I receive it back...

About the edition 7, no, they are not even similar to the 750, where they get that idea??? BTW Ultrasone is going to release a new version of the Edition 7 (they already did in an event in Munich) with a few mods in the materials used, a different case (aluminum instead of wood) and at a lower price, let's wait for this to see...About the price, well i do not consider that any heapdhone should cost $3000.00 that is simply stupid, considering that we have others that perform very close for ten times as less, so to charge for a piece fo art is their choice, thye made only 1000, and all that exclusivity, but as a heapdhone I do not think it is worth that price nor the R-10 neither, if not I would have a pair here now listening the conversation of both, and I do not...

Quote:

anyhow, i guess pretty much everything has been said in this post. anyone is welcome to go try them. i'd suggest you do. i could get rid of all my other less than $1000 headphones and be happy with these. i even like them better than the w5000(don't currently own these though). i'll still take the r10 maybe these hit the mark of the k1000 successor better than the k701(imaging)? i didn't even get into comparing those. ahh....forget it lol. i had r10's when they first came out and returned them to the store(kicking myself right now)! but i say they are at the top of the dynamic heap because no other phones have this technology and it works great for me at least. keep in mind everything i have said is in respect to using them is as a recording monitor and i just happen to enjoy listening to recording monitors(since i hear them all day,everyday). again, many phones beat them for musicality and liquidity. speaking as a recording engineer, i don't know why i did'nt discover this seceret sooner. ok, i think i have said enough about these now {the only things i want to know now is if (sovkiller) can name some amps for these other than Rudistor and where to get a screw-on 1/8" adapter so i can play with cables (if it is worth it).} if you would just rather pm me that is fine. music_man.

I can't name amps other than the Rudistor as my experience was just with those, the PPA, and the Grace, but Evan also like them paired with one of the Rudistor amps better than the Grace...
We are looking also for an screw on plug to do the cables, so as soon as I get the source I will let you know...my cable is a little short BTW, so I may need a longer later on,

Well as studio monitors that is another issue, I doubt that the R-10 will be a good studio monitor, but you should state things very clear before to avoid any misunderstanding. as this is a hi-fi forum, not a pro forum.

BTW I was reading the other day a PRO forum, browsing for the Ultrasone info, and they make me laugh, one guy suggested the other instead of the Ultrasones to try the V600, but not the V6, the V600!!! and he was very specific on the model. He stated also the v6 was so uncomfortable and bla bla bla...man if those guys prefer the V600 for mixing, that is why we are suffering now those horrible recordings, they are simply nuts!!!!

 

[Carl]

[Double post -_-]

 

[Carl]

Quote:

Originally Posted by music_man this is not at all what i expected! what do you guys think about this? maybe this doesnt apply the way it normally does because of the way the waves hit your ears with the decentered drivers. i think it plays a trick on your brain and just sounds a lot better than this would suggest.

The frequency curve in the graph you supplied looks very similar to the HE60's. I guess it's the typical diffuse-field shape.

Quote:

sovkiller, i cannot see how you even like the cd3000 better? well, you are using a crossfeed and bass boost so maybe complete neutrality gets boring and harsh for you too?

Human perceptions are skewed anyway. Sovkiller liking CD3000s and Mastergill liking HD650s, me liking HE60s, and even you liking 2500s is simply a case of something meshing with individual perceptions, no matter how much we try to convince ourself that our perceptions are somehow absolute or unfoolable. Human hearing is not flat, and it changes based on distance, amplitude, frequency, percentage of the sound heard via bone transmission, and so forth.

Quote:

sovkiller, you mentioned them as a 'fun' can. i think you are backing down about them now. they are very dry,precise and unforgiving.

Fun from a long-term ownership point of view is something that lets the emotional core of the music through unimpeded. A lot of so-called "accurate" and "neutral" equipment compromises the emotional integrity of the music. It's entirely possible for something to be dry, precise, unforgiving, etc, and still be fun, provided the music isn't getting emotionally pasteurized.

 

[Spiug31]

I've had Proline 750's for the past few months (ex. display model) and found that it took about a month before the headband became comfy to wear. I'd suggest placing a couple of books between the earpeices when not in use so the headband can gradually adjust to the size you find comfortable without the need for your head being squeezed as it does so.

The amp I use is either my SuperMacro-III or SuperMini-III and I found that a Diamond Reference 1/4" to mini adapter helps the sound a lot.

Incidentally I found the 750's to have reverb that limits the time I can listen to them, I've now got a pair of ESP950's and find them much easier to use.

 

[music_man]

thanks guys. i just feel weird because i found yet another phone i like better than the k701. i guess it is not for everybody. personally i find it uninvolving, whereas the 2500 is very. strange that i can say it is flat,dry,precise AND involving. maybe i am fooling myself. but like everyone said, everyones ears are different. there are a few people that like the 2500 and a few that don't like the k701. i guess the fotm(for the k701) is over anyways. it hasn't been mentioned in the top (topic) 10 threads for several days. just wait for the hd700(?) and it will happen all over again. the 2500 has been out for a while. i am sure ultrasone will do it too though, products constantly improve and evolve.

oh, sovkiller i realise the r10 is sacred, i won't touch it! seriously, no joke intended. but so is the he/hev90. i think i compared the 2500 to that too lol. ok i liked them they are MY fotm and i got pretty carried away, sorry.

music_man.

 

[slwiser]

music_man

There is no shame in finding the sound that makes you enjoy your music best. Everyone is a fotm to some extent no matter how objective we make our arguments sound to ourselves.

That is one reason we have mets to share out experiences and hope others will see the light.

Quote:

Originally Posted by music_man thanks guys. i just feel weird because i found yet another phone i like better than the k701. i guess it is not for everybody. ....... i am sure ultrasone will do it too though, products constantly improve and evolve. oh, .......ok i liked them they are MY fotm and i got pretty carried away, sorry. music_man.

 

[music_man]

i wanted to test out ultrasones motto of "the better the source the better they will sound".

i tried the ultrasones on mark levinson no. 26s,no. 31,no. 35,ear hp4 with nos mullards,stealth indra cables,shunyata, the works! put flim and the bb's "further adventures" into the transport(it is probably the most well recorded cd ever made).

their motto holds true. i cannot honestly say any particular (world-class)headphones are better under these circumstances. maybe different, not better. i know no one is going to push $400 phones with $50,000 of source, but they really can take it.

did i mention i am impressed? i just can't understand why these are disliked by so many folks.

music_man.

 

[Jonny G]

Gald to hear you love the 2500's! It is true, that you really need to spend alot of time with the headphone to truly appreciate them...as well as to get used to their sound dynamics and soundstage. It is a different experience than other "normal" headphones, so this is why many people get put off by them upon their first listen.

While they are very popular in the professional world, theyre taking a bit of time to reach audiophile circles...but hopefully more and more people will take them for a test drive and post their thoughts...negative or positive!

If you guys have any questions, feel free to let me know.

Thanks,

Jon Ghoddoussi
Ultrasone Canada/Soundwerks Audio

 

[music_man]

i am glad you posted. you only have 12 posts! you gotta get the word out!
ahh, maybe it's easier to sell them to engineers,artists and dj's.
i got into them because i record/produce music.

the mark levinson thing was just a test. i doubt ultrasone themselves would even recomend that. but i don't think some other brands would sound any better beyond a certain point so it speaks volumes of their potential.

music_man.

 

[Mercuttio]

Quote:

Originally Posted by music_man i am glad you posted. you only have 12 posts! you gotta get the word out! ahh, maybe it's easier to sell them to engineers,artists and dj's. i got into them because i record/produce music. the mark levinson thing was just a test. i doubt ultrasone themselves would even recomend that. but i don't think some other brands would sound any better beyond a certain point so it speaks volumes of their potential. music_man.

He's a vendor of the product. He isn't supposed to "get the word out" on the board here.

 

[Sovkiller]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mercuttio He's a vendor of the product. He isn't supposed to "get the word out" on the board here.

He will not get the word out, and IMO he is not getting the word out....he is just confirming to what many of us have said, that you need time to get used to them...BTW if Tyll, or Joe Grado, or Todd, or Ray, or Mikhail, or any other manufacturer or vendor (BTW the other day I was reading a very interesting thread about dynamic drivers versus armature drivers, in IEMs and both guys from Shure and Westone expressed some ideas) would state something here in the board, I'm almost sure that nobody would complain, as those guys are really knowledgeable persons that are just showing their experience, with the gear they use....sometimes we need that too, I do not get the logic straight here sometimes, but just sometimes....

 

[Mercuttio]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sovkiller He will not get the word out, and IMO he is not getting the word out....he is just confirming to what many of us have said, that you need time to get used to them...BTW if Tyll, or Joe Grado, or Todd, or Ray, or Mikhail, or any other manufacturer or vendor (BTW the other day I was reading a very interesting thread about dynamic drivers versus armature drivers, in IEMs and both guys from Shure and Westone expressed some ideas) would state something here in the board, I'm almost sure that nobody would complain, as those guys are really knowledgeable persons that are just showing their experience, with the gear they use....sometimes we need that too, I do not get the logic straight here sometimes, but just sometimes....

The difference between this guy and those guys is simple. They really like headphones. Tyll comes around lots and doesn't talk shop. He answers an honest question about his amps once in a while if someone asks him, but he doesn't pop up JUST to throw in a word about the product he's selling. Also, this isn't an "anti ultrasone" thing. I like Florian Koenig very much, and if he wanted to stop by and talk headphones I'd be totally down with it. This guy isn't Florian.

This is the most blatant example of a shill. He is using Head-Fi to sell product: "Contact me if you have any questions." He does not belong here.