k701 to proline 2500

[music_man]

hi.

a store which i will leave unmentioned......

tried to talk me out of k701's and into ultrasone proline 2500's.

i have already owned k701's, and went looking for another pair in shame that i had sold them

i assume they are trying to move something that is not selling?
someone that has thousands of posts on here said they are in the same company as the 701. there are few posts about them. of those few they do not seem to be liked. can anyone elaborate as to why?
are the 2500 the best sounding ultrasone?

if i do get these what amp suits them?

music_man.

 

[music_man]

as usual i have come to my own conclusion. they were trying to 'unload' these on me.

music_man.

 

[Uncle Erik]

Did you listen to the Ultrasones at all? I'd like to know what you think of them.

They are a sponsor here and they went to the National Convention, but no one here seems to own a pair.

I've thought about buying some Ultrasones to round out the collection, but I've seen so little information about them. So if you have some impressions, please share.

 

[music_man]

i did not try them.

place was out of stock on k701 and wanted to sell me these as "at least as good, just not too popular".

sovkiller seems to own them. i tend to trust his opinion after reading many of his posts. sheez i spent all night reading again. i should just start listening and decide for myself. the reason i got rid of the 701's the first time was due to their size(large) rather than their sound(which was really nice).

i think i'll just order them. when they arrive i'll let y'all know if i like 'em as much as sovkiller seems to. if i hate them i hope one of you is going to buy them from me

his say they are modded. wonder what he did.

i'd imagine anything with a 4556ad op-amp(ra-1,ha43) powers these pretty good too.


added edit: seeing as they are a sponser here and look like a nice company i want to make it clear that i have not heard them and thus did not personally render an opinion on them in any manner. i simply went based on what the very few posts around here had to say about them.
as should be evident by now i am easily impressed. so hopefully i will like them.


music_man

 

[music_man]

ultrasone proline 2500.

i got them. they already have several hundred hours.
they are exactly what they say they are. for professional monitoring.
it is no wonder why only one headfier likes these.

what is amazing about them though is they sound pretty much dead on for large genelec monitors. the fact that they achieved this is actually pretty amazing.
as an engineer i have truly found headphones that i can monitor with. i probably will also get the 750's for tracking since they are closed. all other so called 'monitor' headphones change the source material in some way. these are the closest i have ever heard to high-end large field monitors.

does anyone have a graph for these? headroom has cautiously avoided reviewing these. however, you can find glowing reviews on the net. including those from well regarded profesional hi-fi(not the actual magazine namesake) reviewers. i don't tend to see their use for hi-fi though.

they seem to be super flat and very sterile. they are designed to be powered by pro-audio amps(quality ones) like manley or grace. through the ra1 they sound ok. they sound a little better to me through the vhp-1. the grace is best but the furman is ok too and way cheaper. it is best to have a balanced conection from the transport/dac to the headamp with these. it made a big difference. even with amps that are not regarded here because they are pro-audio units. pro audio goes well with pro audio.

they are quite frankly a bargain to an engineer at $400. which is what they seemingly sell for everywhere. for a audiophile-headfier i do not think any of you would like them at all. don't let me speak for anyone though. they are definatley worth a listen!

they do not seem to add or take away anything from the source. they playback only what is there, ala genelec. i decided finally on using a fostex transport, minidac and furman amp. just like they were designed for. this setup is very bland(neutral).

the clamp is super tight. the cups are not quite circumaural to large ears.
they seem to be made of very cheap plastic. with stickers for emblems!
according to ultrasone it is actually a strong polymer.

these are strictly for working imho. to that end they serve very well. they have exactly zero oohs or aahs. the k701, which i got back at the same time is much easier to listen too. not that these are fatiguing. just the opposite. totally boring. one thing people may like however is the way they resolve the source material. you can hear everything. everything good and every defect. on one of my porgy and bess cd's i can hear one musician take a slight swallow! i have never heard that off of that cd on any other phones. i am sure it is there because i can hear it again and again with the 2500's. with the 701's, the he/hev90 and every other high end phone i have i cannot hear this at all.
they may be ok for people that strictly like easy listening, neil diamond,gordon lightfoot,sade.....

they are as exacting as a brain surgeons knife. the technology is actually amazing(decentered drivers are apparently the trick).
superlatives that are commonly used around here like forward,veiled,presence,soundstage.... just do not apply here. these need to be reviewed with house monitoring loudspeakers rather than headphones. yes, house monitors not nearfield monitors. if anyone here ever heard a $75,000 installed system and liked it, than they might think these are very cool. it is just that i doubt most audiophiles would tend to like that sound. from all that i have heard from audiophile types. usually people are looking for some sort of 'color' from a system. whatever flavor it may be. with these you only here what is there. unless of course your gear downstream of these has a 'flavor' to it. that is why they became somewhat intresting with the vhp-1.


i am not really providing a mixed message as it may seem. if you like something nearly 100% accurate these are close. they are by no means fun or groovy. they actually seem to go beyond the he/hev90's precision. yet they arent in any way what i would call 'musical'. instead of liquid these are stiff,solid,rigid,precise,exacting. kind of like the boss that will instantly fire an employee that says a cussword. strictly no-nonsense, only bussiness.

someone said they were very bright. i don't hear that. i'd put there brilliance below hd650 level. very sedate. other than their monster clamp i'd say they would be great falling asleep phones. in fact i fell asleep at 3pm with them today and slept 4 hours with them on(regardless of the clamp)! at my mixing desk. oops. that could be a drawback

i'd like to see what sovkiller thinks. if he is around to see this post. he seems to be the only person here that likes them. i take it he has heard all the good stuff. i also take it to understand he is using them for listening and not monitoring.

i don't think i am being unfair to them as a sponser here. they are not intended for hi-fi. it says in fact, 'for professionals only'! that doesn't mean that they may not be just your cup of tea however! i am happy to have them in my collection, but they are staying at work for the purpose of working.

music_man.

 

[Iron_Dreamer]

Hmmm, such a bold statement makes me want to hear them, though likely not own them

It sounds like Ultrasone has continued their blooming tradition of excellent build quality, though

 

[music_man]

i guess i'll find out when i drop them on the concrete. they claim it is a strong polymer. looks like cheap plastic. maybe they want to claim the money went into the sound and not the looks? sheez, the edition7 looks like the same toys 'r us deal. i agree as to their sound. i wouldn't own them for enjoyable listening. now, where is sovkiller???

only thing that really bothers me other than the clamp is that they unadjust everytime you handle them. so everytime they go on again they must be resized. which sucks for quickly checking the house monitors.

doesnt anyone else own them? i am wondering if i wear them for a month and don't a/b them with the he90's if i will start using them for listening. thats what sovkiller said happened to him. although i think it was against something other than the he90. nonetheless the k701 is much more enjoyable.
even hearing them a whole day apart and going from short term memory.
heck, some people seem to really covet loudspeaker sound in a headphone. here it is. but it is not hi-fi loudspeaker sound. it's diffuse field monitor sound.
like i said, i guess they achieved a excelant reference monitor for recording engineers. that is what it is sold for. no wonder it is not popular here.
so why do we like beyer so much? nevermind i know....

music_man.

 

[jpelg]

I had an opportunity to audition both the 2500 & the 750 (which share the same drivers, btw) at the Head-Fi National meet where Ultrasone had a vendor table. I thought both were quite nice but not so spectacular as to set them apart from their competition. The 2500 was more neutral, with a greater sense of air & space. The 750 has a slightly exaggerated base response in comparison, as well as having less air. Neither were bright as I had read here before. This was using a Grace 902 as a source/amp.

From that brief, meet-condition tryout I was left with the conclusion that they were both nice cans, but did not present a great value at their retail price of US$399. I think they would be more competitive at around half that or so.

 

[music_man]

i understand they have a completely different sonic signature than the k701, but do you think they are in the same company? i am asking because if you look hard enough you can buy k701's for around $250usd. i paid a lot more for mine though.

i am now using the grace as the dac and amp. with this and the cd that comes with these they sound amazing. the cd is not as impressive on the k701's. on the he90 you start thinking the 2500's are baby he90's! i have not heard the he60(which are the baby he90). the grace is solid state so the hev90 may be all that is making them better really. i need to listen more on the cia vhp-1.

i think the deal with these is your source material needs to be stellar. unless there is some serious trickery going on with their demo cd?

now i can see why they are not to popular. most people here are looking for phones that color the source in a pleasent way and also deal well with average quality recordings. these seem to take no prisoners. given this, you would think these are awesome. of course in the real world(less than perfect recordings) it does not work out that way.
classical recordings, which tend to be of better ilk do very well on these. in contrast mp3's at 320kpbs sound horrible. so the phones are very revealing i think. just not forgiving at all. they also seem to be very flat. it's kind of like vanilla when everyone is looking for chocolate.

like sovkiller said, you cannot go a/b'ing these. get used to them with good recordings and you might like them. or you might not. they are just much different then most headphones headfiers are used to. it has got to be the decentered drivers i would reckon. i don't know what else is inside them and do not wish to take them apart right yet. anyhow i want to listen to them more. who knows, in a few days i may still be impressed or i might just hate them. one thing i do not like at all is their level of comfort. then again my noggin is huge.

music_man.

 

[Sovkiller]

Quote:

I had an opportunity to audition both the 2500 & the 750 (which share the same drivers, btw) at the Head-Fi National meet where Ultrasone had a vendor table. I thought both were quite nice but not so spectacular as to set them apart from their competition. The 2500 was more neutral, with a greater sense of air & space. The 750 has a slightly exaggerated base response in comparison, as well as having less air. Neither were bright as I had read here before. This was using a Grace 902 as a source/amp. From that brief, meet-condition tryout I was left with the conclusion that they were both nice cans, but did not present a great value at their retail price of US$399. I think they would be more competitive at around half that or so.

Sorry, first the amp they were using at the meeting, the Grace, was a terrible match for the Ultrasones, they are like a little pro-oriented, the main success of Ultrasone is in the pro industry right now, and for some analogy they were trying to use one of the best headphone amps of the Pro-market, which IMO was not a very good choice, and believe me, I have heard them really sing, but the Grace is not really for them, at all....and second the Ultrasones are not heapdhones that can be evaluated in a single and quick audition, and I state that in bold to emphasise that, I'm not screaming, not mad, nor have any beef with any member, OK?....

Aslo IIRC the Proline 2500 was not at the meeting, in the Ultrasone table at least, and I asked for them particularly as I forgot my pair in Rudi's room, and Steff told me that it was the only model they didn't bring (and the Edition 7, but Rudi that was in the table beside them had them there, so there was no problems in trying them)...

Those observations you made above, as all the observations made in a quick audition of them, are the same opinion of the majority of the audiophiles that audition them the first time, even I had the same, I will never believe that I would like them the way I do now...Having said that I can tell you that it took me up to a month to get used to them, right now I believe that they offer an exceptionally good sound...Other thing, to A/B them against any other headphone, is a mistake until you get used ot them...

BTW at the beginning I was so disappointed that I even tried to modded them, as I believed that the displacement of the drivers was the cause of my dislike, and honestly I ordered a couple of new panels from FPE, costing me about $50.00 and my disappointment could not be bigger while after replacing the original ones the sound was terribly harsh, bright and thin, no bass and no soundstage to die for...So I contacted Ultrasone, at all levels, and finally Dr. Florian explained me a few things, an explanation from God himself...LOL...and he convinced me with a few words, of trying them like that, stock, for a more extended period of time....

The main strengths are IMO completely natural and balanced bass, going too deep that is unbelievable, and a very good soundstage, the most natural feeling of a live event I have ever hear in my life coming from headphones, nice highs, and a very smooth presentation, it is like being in a huge venue, and the event in front of you, not surrounding you, like it is supposed to be, while you are listening live music, and that is the main reason I use cross-feed with the CD3K, the soundstage is a little too wide...

I love both and my favorite is still the CD3K, but the Ultrasone is a very good headphone, also I tried the Edition 7 for a brief time, in this case, the drivers are not displaced, and I like it a lot too....but you need a lot of time to get used to the natural (weird at the beginning) presentation, of them. BTW this is not the case of the Edition 7, they have a more typical headphone sound ...

What I'm trying to say, is that it is not like you will get them and the next day you will love them, why not??? Well simply we are used to a different concepts in the music reproduction...

BTW the displacement of the drivers, and S-logic sound was really calculated, they create a near field point inside the cups, and it was based in a lot of studies made by Dr. Florian, is is not empirical at all, it is not like they tried it, and like it and that's it, (as some other manufacturers does) they are based in theories and studies for more than 20 years...and for each particular headphone everything was calculated...

I think that if you are really serious about headphones, you may give them a try, at least....to heard something different, and after spending some time as everything in audio, you may like them or not, but your opinion for sure will be completely different, and you at least will respect them...at least a little bit..

About the price/ratio perfomrance, IMO non of the hi-end heapdhones we know, are IMO very well priced to our wallets...

 

[Uncle Erik]

Huh. For all your talk about the Ultrasones not appealing to the average person, your descriptions really have me interested. I like neutral and detailed. And I've been thinking about getting another pair... I'll have to look into these some more. They sound like something I'd like.

 

[Skrying]

I had the HFi-550 for a good while, traded for a pair of Beyer DT831, the Beyer's fit my taste better. The 550's ear cups are also (actually the Beyer's are too but not so much so) to small for my MASSIVE ears, so you probably wouldnt run into such an issue.

 

[Ko Nectic Jazz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by music_man ultrasone proline 2500. i got them. they already have several hundred hours. they are exactly what they say they are. for professional monitoring. it is no wonder why only one headfier likes these.

Becareful. I've tried to say the same thing and I've been nearly concidered as a fool.

Quote:

Ultrasones are not heapdhones that can be evaluated in a single and quick audition

I completely agree.

 

[slwiser]

Music_man:

Check out my gallery under my username for the charts on this one. I have collected these from a Japanese site.

Quote:

Originally Posted by music_man ultrasone proline 2500. does anyone have a graph for these? headroom has cautiously avoided reviewing these. however, you can find glowing reviews on the net. including those from well regarded profesional hi-fi(not the actual magazine namesake) reviewers. i don't tend to see their use for hi-fi though. music_man.

 

[Sovkiller]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skrying I had the HFi-550 for a good while, traded for a pair of Beyer DT831, the Beyer's fit my taste better. The 550's ear cups are also (actually the Beyer's are too but not so much so) to small for my MASSIVE ears, so you probably wouldnt run into such an issue.

Well I forgot to mention that in my previous post, comformt is not one of the ultrasone strengths...they are a little stiff for my taste, I'm used to the comfort of the CD3K