[SolidVictory]

 
Quote:

 I really didn't get a long enough listen but the 16s mids seemed slightly further back than the 13s. The 16 had more bass presence and added mid warmth from it or it could be from the upper mids being a hair back. The 13 is more even and balanced. What we like is all that matters but I like the 13 and the 16 put me off a bit as it got in the way of what I knew a male vocalist sounded like. I had a recent live recording of Kurt Elling that I was at and it was just a lot more right and interesting, for me, on the 13. I don't really understand the difference between accurate and musical. If something is accurate, it's musical unless your doing something else wrong or it isn't truly correct. They're not mutually exclusive and is why I don't consider overly analytical phones to be neutral or accurate. I do consider the 13 so. If you say you don't feel the 13 is as accurate, I'm fine with that opinion but extra bass doesn't make it more cohesive, it just makes everything sound less unique.

I see. I actually think the JH13 and JH16 are on the same level in terms of accuracy. What I hear differently on the JH16 is not just "extra bass", but a much more mature bass than the JH13. The JH13 has a very accurate and well controlled bass, but lacks the authority that bass should have, in my opinion. The bass on the JH16 has around +4 dB more than the JH13 (I believe, not 100% sure on this), which does make it output more bass, but I think that the bass does not even appear "added" as it would be on an EQ. It just sounds more natural and as a part of the music than what I got from the JH13--not discounting that the JH13's bass was not natural--it was, but I think the JH16 gets it "perfectly" than the JH13 which "got it just right".
 
To make an analogy, to me the JH13 is like a painting that was done with a normal paintbrush, very clean and detailed, with all of the information that the painter intended to be there. The JH16 to me is like a painting that was done with a tad bit thicker paintbrush, done on a bigger canvas. The painting is the same painting, it just appears bigger and "pops" out more than the painting done by the JH13. Might be a bad analogy, but I hope I got the point across.
 
I actually enjoyed the JH13 a lot, just to put it out there. I just liked the JH16 more just as you enjoyed the JH13 more. I'm just glad we all have different sound preferences, otherwise this hobby would not be fun at all.

 

[goodvibes]

In the 16, the bass is generally 10 db above the presence range and effects the lower mids. 12 db more bass than an er4s for instance. I agree that it's personal preference and have no issue at all with that but I would never call the 16 'more' natural unless the added warmth was needed due to source. Here's an ear corrected response. Yopu'll see it pretty much matches what I heard. I guarantee the 13 would look a lot more even. Of course there's more to this than a response curve so I take my own addition here with a grain.

 
 

 

[Bina]

I already talked about this graph, I dont think you can take it seriously. You need special equipment to measure Customs and I dont think magazine which does this graph have it.

 

[goodvibes]

 graphs aren never absolutes but having a known custom comparitor sort of equals the playing field on the results and as long as there's a good seal everything up to 1Khz shouldn't be an issue. Like with tip selection on universals, what happens above that can be questioned but the bass to mid ratio is on. A 4s on their measurement looks like a straight line below 1Khz. Even the folks at JH will tell you which is the better phone to mix recordings on. Doesn't make them better for everything like live sound monitoring or stage use which the 16 probably works better at. Also doesn't make the better choice for an individual who just likes the way one sounds over the other.

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Larry, given your experience with all this stuff, I'm curious about something: where would you rank the new balanced portable amps (protector A or B, toucan v1 or v2) against similarly priced desktop amps, either balanced or no?  Obviously if portability is your primary concern, the portables are going to be best. But for a size/weight/AC power no object solution, I'm wondering whether something with a big power supply - either a tube amp like the Woo Audio 6, or the Jade, or an amp like the Schitt Valhalla or Matrix M-stage would be better, or whether the battery power and/or different design of these small amps actually has better synergy with the JH13s?  
 
btw- I'm not convinced that many of these sub-$1000 amps are truly balanced, or that a balanced amp would even be a good thing for the JH13s anyway (one professional review said balancing increased soundstage at the cost of detail.)  Any ideas?
 
curious to know your experience and thoughts...

I've only tried the Protector and SR-71b. The Protector in balanced mode sounds a lot like a Nuforce HDP but with a little less power. Both are slightly aggressive and not as transparent as the SR-71b, WA6, Amphora or DACmini.

The SR-71b is much better, and in balanced mode sounds a lot like a bigger desktop amp, and closer to the WA6 or DACmini. In single ended mode it's good with IEM, but with full size phones the SE output of either portable is inadequate to my ears. The Amphora is on a similar level of performance, but a little more laid back sounding and less powerful, but it also has some background hiss with sensitive IEM.

The synergy with JH13pro is very good with either amp, making them my favorite portable amps for those. For full size phones the best portable is the SR-71b in balanced mode, which sounds like a full-size amp. The power output is surprising. For IEM any of them are sufficient.

No surprise some wise guy would pull up some of my other posts and insinuate "BUT YOU SAID........NOW YOU ARE FLIP FLOPPING!"
 
Well, yes, if you want to call it that, then so be it.  Perhaps my ears aren't keen enough to really get a handle on an IEM in a short period of time.  Is it much different than buying a new car and then only after owning it a few months you really begin to understand it inside and out?   And I won't take back that JH13+Ipod Classic "sounds amazing and I am in heaven" with certain tracks.
 
If I were to do it over again I would have bought the more colored JH16.  I was afraid it would have been too bassy and not articulate enough.  Actually if I did more homework I would have realized it was the better choice "for me."  I guess I am sort-of a basshead afterall.  If you have read the reviews there seems to be equal praise for both JH13 and JH16 but most generally prefer the JH16.  I am giving you my honest assesement below but take it for what it is worth.  Again, what my preference is may not be what yours is so my comments are based on WHAT I LIKE in an IEM which has taken literally years to develop.
 
[size=small]JH13[/size]
 
WHAT IT DOES SUPERBLY:  Speed, transparency and detail.  It completely knocks it out of the park and not too many IEM's at any price can do this.
 
WHAT IT (sort of) LACKS:  Kick, energy, forgiveness.  It certainly has energy when it comes to treble but I am talking energy more related to  "rocking out".  JH5 actually beats it here.  And like I say, very dependent on recording.  I was listening to some late 80's 10,000 Maniacs recordings and while JH13 is detailed as all hell, there is something missing "oomph"-wise or emotional about the sound.  Tried the same recordings with JH5 this morning and I will say it honestly sounds better  with this particular selection of music.   Granted, these recording are quite flat to begin with so that obviously is a factor.  But then if I take a "hotter" recording that is boosted, the JH13 sounds incredible!  But this up and down feeling from track to track is annoying.  
 
2 other JH13 complaints:  Not so efficient so it will eat battery life up faster unless amping of course.   Regarding the boost Jerry put on the lower bass....sometimes it seems to just come out of nowhere and sounds separated from the rest of the presentation.  Like it was thrown in as an afterthought.  Granted without it it would clearly not have enough bass for my ears so I think its better its there but it sometimes seems disconnected with everything else.  Perhaps if he added mid-bass instead of lower bass it would be different.  Not sure.  I am using unamped with a 160GB Ipod Classic on "rock" setting but I would imagine an amp may certainly clear my complaints up but I am just not an amp guy, probably never will be.
 
Live and learn.  It's a hobby and hobbys can be expensive.
 

I've said similar things about the bass of the JH13, and it is better with many amps including the balanced Protector, SR-71b, DACport, DACmini, WA6, and several others. Pico Slim seems to increase the "deep bass disconnect", but will also appeal to bassheads. If you love the W3 then also consider the UE11pro which remind me of an improved W3 in a custom, but JH16pro might make you happier.

 

[b0ck3n]

I've only heard the demo universal JH16pro, and I didn't find it neutral in any section of the frequency range. The graph shown above (I've linked the same graph in another thread) correlates with what I heard - enormous bass presence and a spike at around 8khz. It does that while still maintaining an impressive amount of detail, resulting in probably the most exciting headphone I've ever heard. After an hour or so, I felt like I needed a break as it's so inescapable and attacking in its signature.
 
I tried it with a multitude of recordings, ranging from progressive rock to death metal and 256kbit to FLAC, and I liked 'em with all genres. On some live recordings it brought the bass-guitar to the foreground which sounded completely off at times. It was absolutely beautiful for on-screen classical scores where the bass steals the show, and brought alot of presence and atmosphere to bass light recordings - indeed giving it a more natural balance. I didn't much like them with quick metal tracks where galloping rhythm guitars and bass guitars become completely overpowering - this would probably be ideal for some, but not for me.
 
I listened only very briefly to the JH13pro demo universal, and upon hearing the 16 I chose to spend my session with that instead. I may have gone for the 13 and preferred it in the long run.
 
@Spyro: I don't like any of the iDevices presets, they're all way off to me and it's very difficult to find one that suits a particular pair of headphones. I would instead advice you get EQu, which is a parametric EQ app, and adjust the frequency response to your liking. There's hope yet for your extremely expensive pair of IEMs - you may find that a correctly applied bass bump makes the JH13 everything you ever wished it to be.

 

[AVU]

Thanks Larry, I really appreciate you taking the time to repond!  

 

[TekeRugburn]

Well...I'm the one responsible for buying spyro's jh13.  and sure enough, before i get them remolded i have my alo rx amp crap out on me and will cost 175 to get it fixed by alo.  I have read lots of posts and threads about which amp works synergistically with the jh13.  
 
So I was wondering if anyone has comparisons between the pico slim, arrow, alo rx mk2 for the jh13.  No balanced amp recommendations please or shadow as I own that one already...thanks!
 
 

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

 

I tried the ALO amp at a meet and it was a better match for my JH13Pro than the Pico Slim, but the Slim was better with my ES3X and ES5.

Quote:

Well...I'm the one responsible for buying spyro's jh13.  and sure enough, before i get them remolded i have my alo rx amp crap out on me and will cost 175 to get it fixed by alo.  I have read lots of posts and threads about which amp works synergistically with the jh13.  
 
So I was wondering if anyone has comparisons between the pico slim, arrow, alo rx mk2 for the jh13.  No balanced amp recommendations please or shadow as I own that one already...thanks!
 

 
 

 

[GamerG]

Does anyone use their JH-13s for the gym?

 

[adktitan]

Quote:

Does anyone use their JH-13s for the gym?

4 days a week. I run 5 miles and lift for 45 minutes. In perfect sonic bliss the entire time....

 

[TekeRugburn]

Quote:

 

I tried the ALO amp at a meet and it was a better match for my JH13Pro than the Pico Slim, but the Slim was better with my ES3X and ES5.

 
 

 
Yeah, I guess im used to Alo's wide and airy sound with the right touch of bass impact it added to my um3x's, listening to them with my shadow feels a bit to intimate and a little cramped.  While I love the Alo sound, getting it fixed for 175 is a bit much since I can get a NEW headstage arrow for 300. 
 
 

 

[563]

adkitan - you are a much braver guy than i!!!!

 

[Nuwidol]

Quote:

Does anyone use their JH-13s for the gym?

I use mine in the gym most days. If you opt to do this, make sure you get the black cable. The clear/silver cable turns green very rapidly when in contact with sweat...

 

[adktitan]

Quote:

.. If you opt to do this, make sure you get the black cable. The clear/silver cable turns green very rapidly when in contact with sweat...

This is true...however, I have been through 3 black cables and only 1 clear cable in the past year alone..so it seems to me the clear, for some reason hold up better...all the cable failures steam from the 'Y' joint I have noticed..I notice zero sound difference between the two...