[Eric_C]

dallan: thanks for the response, I guess frustration/bewilderment doesn't translate easily on the internet. As far as I can tell, 3X0 and I have tried some of the "higher end" amps with a JH13 and have found ourselves unconvinced that there is a difference, or a large enough difference to warrant the cost (in my case, that depends on the amp). 
 
Glad to hear that you found the O2 great. I lean more and more towards buying one each day; if only I could get someone to help reposition some of the jacks...
 
You did try the O2 with the JH13, right? Your sig indicates you no longer use the JH13. Why is that?

 

[Anaxilus]

Quote:

dallan: thanks for the response, I guess frustration/bewilderment doesn't translate easily on the internet. As far as I can tell, 3X0 and I have tried some of the "higher end" amps with a JH13 and have found ourselves unconvinced that there is a difference, or a large enough difference to warrant the cost (in my case, that depends on the amp). 
 
Glad to hear that you found the O2 great. I lean more and more towards buying one each day; if only I could get someone to help reposition some of the jacks...
 
You did try the O2 with the JH13, right? Your sig indicates you no longer use the JH13. Why is that?

Wrong O2.  Sigh....
 

 
You should try some better amps than the Objet deux, not just 'higher-end'.  That term means nothing.
 
 

Spoiler: %40%20dallan

Just ignore 3x0.  If you don't think like him you're deluded and ignorant, don't waste your time.  He hasn't heard better, only more expensive and even if he did he'd talk himself out of it.  The everything beyond a bare minimum is snakeoil and inaudible camp.  

 
 
 

 

[dallan]

I use the JH13 in some situations where to shut out the noise and when appropriate.  The problem for me is that i get footfall noise so the main reason that i got them, walking the dog and out and about, doesn't work.  I have had many molds, two different audiologist and even Jerry's go to person in Los Angeles.  I have tried to figure it out, others have the problem too, but after several years I finally have narrowed it down.  The tissue in my ear just doesn't tighten enough to hold them totally secure.  Even though i have a perfect seal and they are as tight as comfortable without being painful, and i have had them painful before, they mircroscopically move and it causes a thumping.  The only relief is, if I ware them over a half hour, and push them deep several times during that the tissue secures better and if I don't walk to cluncky the foot noise is decreased or almost totally gone.  At that point it is tolerable and i occasionally will use them like that.
 
I actually was so frustrated at one point that i just got a pair of Edition 8 LE headphones to replace that need.
 
Also i only rarely use the jh13 with an amplifier, i use my only euphoric piece of equipment to drive them usually, which is the HM801 with the upgraded game iem amplifier built in.  Then i take it straight out of the jack.  It does sound better with the pico amp, just not worth carrying unless i have a good reason.  I do feel the JH13 is very transparent though and shows the upsteam components, ie player and dac.

 

[Eric_C]

Anaxilus: Ah, haha my bad I thought of Objective2 because the whole conversation was about amps. I haven't tried the O2 because the pick-up rate seems slow in my country, and the meet-up rate is even worse. Hence, no chances. I've heard the 2Stepdance and Pico and Pico Slim, and I think the Meier is very neutral and well suited to both sensitive IEMs and power-hungry cans (e.g. HD600), but for the 13 alone, I didn't detect any improvement where I could rule out placebo. Pico Slim I have an issue with the turn-on/off thump, and Pico strikes me as doing the same things right as the Stepdance but slightly warmer. That's about it. A-Bing all three amps with my Classic's hp out didn't convince me that there were dynamics lost by going ampless, so ampless I remain.
 
dallan: Yeah I know what you mean about the footfall noise. On top of that I have spectacles noise, because I changed from thin, metal frames to thick, plastic ones. In time I seemed to learn to tune out of the footfall noise though, and now I'm happy using the 13 whenever I'm out.

 

[moseboy]

Quote:

For reference, I find the JH13pro treble to be more subdued next to my Shure SE535.

I thought the 535's highs were laid back and rolled off versus its very forward mid-highs. Are the 13's highs even more laid back than that?

 

[dallan]

I actually found improvement going lod to an amp instead of using the built in with my ipod classic.  It may not be the power of the amp but the better sound that you get out of the line out jack in the bottom, then the amp just helps a little.
 
Yes the last two meets at Golden Ears someone brought that O2 with the blue hawaiian amp and Golden Ears cd player, it was just plain sick, the best thing i have ever heard, just plain incredible.  And my system is no slouch with the Zana Duex amp and HD800s with a multiple thousand dollar dac set up and other goodies in between as well as Amarra out of my computer.  Mine is good but that set up was drop dead heaven.

 

[bmiamihk]

Yep the Shures 530 and 535 are as you mentioned. The JH13 have more highs
 
Quote:

I thought the 535's highs were laid back and rolled off versus its very forward mid-highs. Are the 13's highs even more laid back than that?

 

 

[Anaxilus]

Quote:

Anaxilus: Ah, haha my bad I thought of Objective2 because the whole conversation was about amps. I haven't tried the O2 because the pick-up rate seems slow in my country, and the meet-up rate is even worse. Hence, no chances. I've heard the 2Stepdance and Pico and Pico Slim, and I think the Meier is very neutral and well suited to both sensitive IEMs and power-hungry cans (e.g. HD600), but for the 13 alone, I didn't detect any improvement where I could rule out placebo. Pico Slim I have an issue with the turn-on/off thump, and Pico strikes me as doing the same things right as the Stepdance but slightly warmer. That's about it. A-Bing all three amps with my Classic's hp out didn't convince me that there were dynamics lost by going ampless, so ampless I remain.

Nah it's cool.  I haven't heard the 2step but I know the opamp is the same I use in my UHA6S though the topology differs.  The Pico Slim should be slightly less resolving and have a slight bass boost from my experience before I sold it.  There's a number of different reasons why people don't hear improvements in amps.
 
1-They don't exist.  Thus the amp in question is equal to or worse than the control.
2-The phones aren't resolving enough.
3-The DAC isn't resolving enough; all DACs have an analogue output stage and the actual chip is only a fraction of the concern.
4-The tracks are poor, mediocre, compressed, etc.  There are no more dynamics or detail to offer so the chain is starved.  
 
Edit-you AB'd those amps using the iPOd Classic HO?  You realize however transparent an external amp is you won't hear any more resolution than what the iPod amp lets thru right? 
 

 

[Anaxilus]

Quote:

 
Yes the last two meets at Golden Ears someone brought that O2 with the blue hawaiian amp and Golden Ears cd player, it was just plain sick, the best thing i have ever heard, just plain incredible.  And my system is no slouch with the Zana Duex amp and HD800s with a multiple thousand dollar dac set up and other goodies in between as well as Amarra out of my computer.  Mine is good but that set up was drop dead heaven.

T2 + 009 or HE90.  No contest w/ O2 + BH.  

  You know we have some local meets coming up right?  April 22 and August?  Swing by.  Plus modded 800's on new Eddie Current gear.
 

 

[dallan]

Trying to figure out the April 22 one.  Didn't know about August though.  I have been too busy to follow the forum much and I am scared to go to a meet because I'll love something and if i get anything else ever it will be an 009 set up.  But the cash to lay out on that is insane right now.  

 

[moseboy]

 
Quote:

Yep the Shures 530 and 535 are as you mentioned. The JH13 have more highs
 

I would certainly hope so.

 

[Eric_C]

Anax: no, sorry I wasn't clear enough. I A-B'd the following setups:
 
Setup A) iPod Classic 6G > LOD > Pico Slim / Pico / 2Stepdance > JH13 (different amps on different days)
Setup B) iPod Classic 6G > JH13
 

 

[purk]

Quote:

Yep the Shures 530 and 535 are as you mentioned. The JH13 have more highs
 


 

Sorry about the confusion here.  The JH13pro indeed has more extend and smoother treble than the Shure SE535.  I think I was just hearing the spike around 12khz on the Shure on a very bad allergy day.
 

 

[3X0]

Quote:

What information, I have heard tons of different upstream combo, they all sound different!  Where are you hearing this stuff?
 
Okay, well i see you don't believe in dac's either, okay-per your profile.   Artificially delicious..... Many people who I trust and the best setups that i have heard have dac's or extremely high end cd players. Like i said to each his own, but a couple of meets sure did open my eyes throughout the years and the claim of a "euphoric sound" and not a reference sound is like whistling in the dark.
 
I am not on here too much lately and after already trying that route before finding out for my self, i now see why.  Sure I'll get an ear full but hey, your justifications for settling on where you are are just that.  Sometimes these statements just blow me off my chair, that is why so many of the audiophiles don't even bother posting out here anymore, just don't want to have to argue for something that they have already figured out.

 
Scientifically-controlled tests. I'll post some of the references when I get back home. To-date, there hasn't been a single piece of evidence corroborating the notion that upstream components (DACs or amplifiers) sound different, while there have been at least ten or twelve dozen studies confirming the converse.
 
The metrics for the audio signal are frequency response, distortion, noise, and time-based errors. Modern-day electronics differ minutely enough that we cannot perceive the difference. The measured differences are simply beyond our threshold of hearing --- any differences observed are either from defective components or volume differences.
 
Otherwise, the product might be intentionally designed to introduce distortion and noise to the signal (like your Blue Hawaii does) in order to provide a more euphonic sound at the expense of actual fidelity. This is further complicated by our unique HRTFs -- the ears are much more easily tricked by "aural" illusions than our eyes are by optical illusions. Nonetheless the audio signal before it hits the air is absolutely dictated by the four measurements aforementioned.
 
I figured out my setup about two years ago. After some research, studying, and controlled listening to affirm my newfound knowledge, I realized that I spent many hundreds of dollars more than I needed to. It certainly is fine that you've found what you like, but don't completely dismiss the possibility that ignorance is bliss.

 

[nc8000]

Tosh !!!!

There has been nearly nothing but comments confirming that different upstream components sound differently and not because they are all defective