[563]

perhaps because it's no longer the FOTM?

 

[Eric_C]

I suppose you could put it down to relative judgments. After all, perhaps the best way to describe a headphone is in relation to another one (preferably within the same "class") and for the 13, there may be no better comparison than against the 16. Side by side--and I did demo both--the 16 are obviously bassier, and perhaps more engaging for it, which makes me wonder if I could ever own the 13 and not feel like I'm missing out.

 

[563]

In the end, I guess YMMV (I hate that expression!)...

 

[daveDerek]

yeah, but unfortunately it's oh so true!

 

[Spyro]

As I read comparisons of JH13 to JH16 I think of W2 versus W3.
 
W2 is a great IEM.  Very balanced, certainly no slouch in the bass dept.  It is tight, fairly neutral and the other frequencies have great imaging and detail etc.  W3 adds the underlying enveloping sub-bass that makes the music a bit more engaging and emotional without sacrificing detail.  I certainly prefer the W3 over W2.
 
Is the W2 to W3 change similar to the JH13 to JH16 change?
 
Is this comparison not quite valid or am I over-simplifying?  Can anyone chime in?

 

[daveDerek]

interesting. in that case another comparable analogy may be that the w4 (which joey russo says combines the best of the w2 &3 in one iem (just as others have said it combines the best of the w3 & um3x))is to these as the jh3a is to the 13 & 16

.

 

[roy_jones]

Quote:

As I read comparisons of JH13 to JH16 I think of W2 versus W3.
 
W2 is a great IEM.  Very balanced, certainly no slouch in the bass dept.  It is tight, fairly neutral and the other frequencies have great imaging and detail etc.  W3 adds the underlying enveloping sub-bass that makes the music a bit more engaging and emotional without sacrificing detail.  I certainly prefer the W3 over W2.
 
Is the W2 to W3 change similar to the JH13 to JH16 change?
 
Is this comparison not quite valid or am I over-simplifying?  Can anyone chime in?

I think that the JH13/16 comparison might be closer, if only because the additional drivers (to a certain point) seem to have an effect on the control and soundstage of an IEM.  I'm skeptical as to whether the JH16 is truly technically superior to the 13 in that sense, whereas I imagine the W3 is technically superior to the W2.  I *believe* the W2 has a 2-way cross-over as opposed to a three-way, also.  I think the W3/UM3X comparison is more apt. 
 
What's interesting to me is that I'm not sure that my tastes in IEM's mirrors that of my preferences in full sized headphones.  I think I might be more inclined to go with a bass-heavier IEM than I would a full-sized headphone equivalent.  If I were deciding between the two JH models, I'd have a hard time without being able to audition them. 
 
The elephant in the room in a lot of these kinds of discussions is the musical genres they're going to be used for.  For my tastes, which are mostly rock based, having a slightly tipped bass response is usually an advantage. 

 

[Spyro]

As an IEM, NO, I doubt the JH16 is better than the JH13.
 
But undoubtedly the JH16 sounds much closer to a headphone setup and isn't that what most people are striving for?
 
Other than portability and isolation does an IEM have any advantage over a headphone?

 

[goodvibes]

I think most that buy these have moved beyond sounding like a headphone and are hoping for more. For me, the 13 beats the 16 in that regard. The 16 is a great unit and will be preferred by some and perhaps is better for stage use where you lose bass info but for just listening to tunes or mixing, the 13 is very close to right, for me. So much so that it would be very difficult to know what was source or phone aberration. I haven't heard everything but I can't imagine something being more right. I can understand preference or as good but I find them hard to criticize where I felt the 16s thickened things a bit unnaturally.
 
Spyro, I'm envious. I've got some Stax Nova sigs and I'd still rather listen to speakers when stationary. Of course it costs more to do that well but ......

 

[kiwirugby]

I was doing some "homework" for an upcoming Symphony concert where the work is Mahler 6.   Listening with the JH13s and following along with the score, I could really make sure I listened to what might be some really deep, and high frequencies.   The JH13s were absolutely amazing with the lowest bass drum notes (and quick low notes in the double basses) and the highest pitches of the celeste.  Oh, and all the stuff in between, just brilliant!   Anymore bass in the 13s and it would have been de trop.   They really can get down there.....

 

[dallan]

Well i got them back again, the best fit i have had i think, the right side totally disappears, the left may take a bit of getting used to but it is better.  They twist in perfectly now, it used to be that i had to lubricate a touch.  The noise is still there but maybe not as strong as before.  The side that was really bad before is better than the side that was the good side.  So overall improvement.  I am listening on my home rig now.  The sound of these is nothing short of stunning.

 

[pekingduck]

I totally agree. The JH13's just ROCK with Mahler!  I llistened to Mahler 1 (Michael Tilson Thomas conducting) yesterday and the SQ is nothing short of stunning.
 
Quote:

I was doing some "homework" for an upcoming Symphony concert where the work is Mahler 6.   Listening with the JH13s and following along with the score, I could really make sure I listened to what might be some really deep, and high frequencies.   The JH13s were absolutely amazing with the lowest bass drum notes (and quick low notes in the double basses) and the highest pitches of the celeste.  Oh, and all the stuff in between, just brilliant!   Anymore bass in the 13s and it would have been de trop.   They really can get down there.....

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Seeing all the talk about 13 vs 16 bass, my JH13Pro never have too much bass unless I use them with my Pico Slim amp, and then the deep bass seems disconnected from the rest of the spectrum and turned up too much.  My balanced RSA Protector or SR-71b are a better match for them.  When I heard the JH16 demos at RMAF last October it was with also with a balanced Protector, and I didn't think they had too much bass at all - I thought the 16 improved the mid/upper bass and low mids where the JH13Pro were slightly lacking.  So, assuming the JH16 demo was representative of the final sound of a full custom, I think either one is a fine choice if the associated gear works well with them.  
 
I do like the slightly fuller mids of the ES5 more, which pair best with my Pico Slim; but with the SR-71b amp I think the JH13Pro do just as well, as they are a little more laid back IEM and work well with the slightly more aggressive amp.  I'd love to try a JH16 with my SR-71b someday, but it's likely that I'll use any spare cash to mod my JH13 to a JH3A DSP system sometime in the future.  I have enough IEM for running ampless, and the JH3A can connect to the coax SPDIF output of my uDAC-2 24/96 USB DAC.  But I keep thinking about the $30K in credit cards we finally paid off, and the teenager starting college in 18 months and my mouth goes dry...

 

[Eric_C]

Larry: is a Slim a transparent, or a bassy amp?
 
I'm also curious as to who's running their 13 straight from an iPod/iPhone? I read a very short thread on 13 vs 16 with an iPod only, and it was only then that I realised the different impedances (28 vs 18 ohms, I think). 

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Quote:

Larry: is a Slim a transparent, or a bassy amp?
 
I'm also curious as to who's running their 13 straight from an iPod/iPhone? I read a very short thread on 13 vs 16 with an iPod only, and it was only then that I realised the different impedances (28 vs 18 ohms, I think). 

I think it's fairly transparent, and less aggressive sounding than the P-51 or Protector.  Bass is strong with this one, but not typically boosted when used with other IEM.  It doesn't seem to boost the bass unnecessarily on my W3 for example. There just seems to be something about the combination with my JH13. Blutarsky agreed with me on this one.