[909]

Even if JL is in the right here, which I find highly unlikely, they have not only done themselves a grave disservice in their defense, but have demonstrated themselves to be a company I can not in good conscience ever do business with either directly or indirectly. As far as I am concerned whether it be here or elsewhere, I will suggest to anyone that might consider their products and/or service to avoid them at all costs--and urge others at minimum to inform the unwitting about this fiasco. JL can point their fingers and keep that measly thousand dollars, may it serve them well.

 

[Currawong]

Wow, what drama I've missed. I'm amazed how people will dig themselves into progressively deeper and deeper holes avoiding doing the simplest things, like saying "sorry" to a customer.

This strongly discourages me from wanting to buy from any of the MOTs involved in the future (not including Ken, who wasn't involved) as none of them seem to have considered the consequences of their actions.

 

[manaox2]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Currawong /img/forum/go_quote.gif Wow, what drama I've missed. I'm amazed how people will dig themselves into progressively deeper and deeper holes avoiding doing the simplest things, like saying "sorry" to a customer.

X2, even if you claim blackmail, it doesn't seem like it would be worth fighting it. Though its descended to owning a ring in hell's circus at this point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Currawong /img/forum/go_quote.gif This strongly discourages me from wanting to buy from any of the MOTs involved in the future (not including Ken, who wasn't involved) as none of them seem to have considered the consequences of their actions.

I think Alex did the right thing at the customers request. Originally, it was to settle an argument with Jena Labs before ending up on head-fi when things went bad it seems.

 

[n_maher]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 909 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Even if JL is in the right here, which I find highly unlikely, they have not only done themselves a grave disservice in their defense, but have demonstrated themselves to be a company I can not in good conscience ever do business with either directly or indirectly. As far as I am concerned whether it be here or elsewhere, I will suggest to anyone that might consider their products and/or service to avoid them at all costs--and urge others at minimum to inform the unwitting about this fiasco. JL can point their fingers and keep that measly thousand dollars, may it serve them well.

Well said.

Jena Lab's have done nothing but prove they are a company that charges a premium price for a service and offers nothing in the way of assurances should they damage the equipment they were trying to modify. Heck, they won't even do you the courtesy of telling you they had to repair your gear while they were working on it. What we've seen here is about the equivalent of taking your car to the mechanic to get new tires and being told after the fact that, oh-by-the-way, we had to replace the engine, and we did so with a re-manufactured unit that doesn't run very well. Hope you don't mind and please still pay us for the tires! Oh wait, we took the tires back because now that your car isn't running you don't need new tires. kthxby!

 

[skyline889]

This thread has gotten quite long since I last visited. What I would like to know is; if Jena Labs is so confident they are in the right here, why have they not filed a libel suit against Boilingfrog? If they had evidence to support their claims, I would think they would like to pursue damages from him. That's what I would try to do if someone was vindictively vowing to "destroy our companies reputation".

 

[d-cee]

Quote:

Originally Posted by skyline889 /img/forum/go_quote.gif This thread has gotten quite long since I last visited. What I would like to know is; if Jena Labs is so confident they are in the right here, why have they not filed a libel suit against Boilingfrog? If they had evidence to support their claims, I would think they would like to pursue damages from him. That's what I would try to do if someone was vindictively vowing to "destroy our companies reputation".

Keep up would you?

Googling boilingfrog's real name reveals he could be a Harvard lawyer!

 

[Sovkiller]

One more time, and I hope this will serve as experience for future manufacturers, modders, etc...as soon as you notice that any device have been previously modified by "someone", send them back and period...Never touch anything that has been altered, as you will never know the consequences...

 

[sacd lover]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sovkiller /img/forum/go_quote.gif One more time, and I hope this will serve as experience for future manufacturers, modders, etc...as soon as you notice that any device have been previously modified by "someone", send them back and period...Never touch anything that has been altered, as you will never know the consequences...

Your statement probably is good basic advice. But, in this case the damaged drivers were never altered. The cable was cut off before the drivers and the drivers were never removed from the headphone. So, the problem had nothing to do with the prior cable. The problem was the JL mod damaged the drivers.

 

[xnothingpoetic]

JL took down the entire R10 page, and even their response.
http://www.jenalabs.com/headphones/sony-r-10.html

No where to be found on their site.

 

[Sovkiller]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sacd lover /img/forum/go_quote.gif Your statement probably is good basic advice. But, in this case the damaged drivers were never altered. The cable was cut off before the drivers and the drivers were never removed from the headphone. So, the problem had nothing to do with the prior cable. The problem was the JL mod damaged the drivers.

Have any of you guys have ever thought in giving JL a single bit of credibility? What about, if the drivers were originally damaged, not by Mikhail but maybe from the previous owner, or maybe a manufacturer defect, how many times we have seen defective products from the factory, even while very unlikely in this case, given the level of manufacture the R-10 has, it is also a posibility...

Sorry guys and not trying to offend anybody, but I do not believe, despite all what has been said here, that JL ruined this drivers, even an apprentice, would be careful enough considering the price of those babies...JL has experience, and knowledge to do it right, why doing it wrong? Sorry for me is extremely hard to believe...even an accident is real unlikely IMO, OTOH if you do yor math, they have money enough to cover what they damaged...

 

[greenhorn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JENA Labs /img/forum/go_quote.gif This is our reply to all of the thread contents... We do have something to say about all of it. jenalabs headphone mod for sony R10 enjoy

WELCOME TO HEAD-FI, SORRY FOR YOUR WALLET.

 

[PFKMan23]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sovkiller /img/forum/go_quote.gif Have any of you guys have ever thought in giving JL a single bit of credibility? What about, if the drivers were originally damaged, not by Mikhail but maybe from the previous owner, or maybe a manufacturer defect, how many times we have seen defective products from the factory, even while very unlikely in this case, given the level of manufacture the R-10 has, it is also a posibility... Sorry guys and not trying to offend anybody, but I do not believe, despite all what has been said here, that JL ruined this drivers, even an apprentice, would be careful enough considering the price of those babies...JL has experience, and knowledge to do it right, why doing it wrong? Sorry for me is extremely hard to believe...even an accident is real unlikely IMO, OTOH if you do yor math, they have money enough to cover what they damaged...

Yes the thought did occur to me. However if that was the case, how/why didn't they notice that and tell the owner when the original cable was installed. If your assumption is true, they would have noticed the damage at that time and they should have notified the owner before doing the modifications and subsequently "repairing" them. I have never seen a business act as they do, especially if they have the knowledge of the high value of the item in question. In my mind, that doesn't add up.

And they still have the attitude of "even if we broke it, it's not our fault and you still have to pay for it".

That said I do believe you're right about one thing, they have more than enough money to cover the damage.

 

[Sovkiller]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PFKMan23 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yes the thought did occur to me. However if that was the case, how/why didn't they notice that and tell the owner when the original cable was installed. If your assumption is true, they would have noticed the damage at that time and they should have notified the owner before doing the modifications and subsequently "repairing" them. I have never seen a business act as they do, especially if they have the knowledge of the high value of the item in question. In my mind, that doesn't add up. And they still have the attitude of "even if we broke it, it's not our fault and you still have to pay for it". That said I do believe you're right about one thing, they have more than enough money to cover the damage.

Attitude aside, which I feel also that is a result maybe of how the whole story was conducted, I have not acted like them, but not everybody has the same temper, not saying that I'm an angel, but.....Also have you ever thought that they may be pissed because of how the whole event was handled??? Not very porfessional, but honestly I would be pissed, if my reputation is at the stake as they have theirs now, and they feel that they are not at fault as they do...

Guys nobody can be so irresponsible as to act that way, think for a while again, something is not very clear here, and IMO there are still facts that are not 100% straight to me, from both sides...

Have you ever dealt with customers yourself, let me tell you that I have been involved in transactions outside and here with Headfi members, that I will regret my whole life, there are individuals that are simply really hard to satisfy, and even while you bend over to do your best, they still complaint...not saying that this is the case, but being in both sides I always give both sides the benefit of the doubt, till I'm 100% convinced of one thing....

Also you are again making conclussions of what was told and was exposed here, that, could be or not 100% true, it could be partially true, it could be a big misunderstading between both parties, it could be somewhat a lack or proper communication, etc...

We are talking of professional workers here, with common sense, and a business conducted for years, it is hard for me to believe blindly all this story sorry for being so honest...

Alex is a nice guy, but IMO he also made a mistake from the tactical point of view. He posted his side of the story, from what he was told by the owner, as he never said anything that he was involved at all in the original transaction or event, and till now there is no evidence that he was present while the problem were discussed by phone, IMO, and unless he actually was, and that is only my opinion, but if I were in his shoes, I would never made any comment regarding this issue public, even if the customer ask me do it. A manufacturer simply should not talk about other manufacturers job publicly, good or bad. Your actions should speak for yourself, simple ethics...Again I have no dog in this fight, and I'm simply making some observations from the outside...next time Alex do yourself that favor...never miss an opportunity of remain in silence, just keep on working they way you usually do and you will be never pointed for being wrong...Just see how Ray, Tyll, Mikhail, Rudi, Drew, and many others conduct their business, you will never see them talking of any event, not related with their own business, that is the way to go IMO...

Till now none of the two parties, have convinced me that they are 100% right or wrong...so IMO the truth is still somewhat in the middle...

 

[Riboge]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sacd lover /img/forum/go_quote.gif You know exactly what you did. If you dont, your IQ must be in the single digits. Furthermore, you didnt expose anything but your own ignorance.

The point I keep making but you keep ducking is that HE may know exactly what he did (by which I take you to mean what he intended with is actions), but YOU DON'T! Are you really unable to back off your omniscient stance and your self-appointment as the Chief Justice of the Court of Public Opinion? So many people have acted in this thread as if this were an approved place for judgments with binding though solely implicit rules about people acting in a certain way and answering your questions at risk of being held in contempt if they don't, etc. Just why does he have to act the way you want him to or else be considered to have "asked for" being judged and punished. It is very common for those who aggress against others to rationalize that their victim asked for it, much as you did.

This goes for JL Labs as well though there is more basis for disapproving their handling of the situation, that is, some things they clearly did wrong like emailing and posting their client's name and the particulars of the transaction and the unaccommodating tone and actions(at least for a while) of their dealings with him and those who question what happened. Yet it isn't until today that anyone asks about giving them at least some credibility, that is, considering that what they 'testify' is more like evidence than any of the reasons sited for why one should not believe them such as "if that was the case, how/why didn't they notice that and tell the owner when the original cable was installed". There is no sense that this speculation though intelligent does not rule out there being an answer in fact that doesn't involve their lying. It's just not in your ken, or you are continuing to not allow for anything inconsistent with your forgone conclusion...as in a kangaroo court.

It is not immature, sacd lover, for me to be outraged that so many of you go on like this and to tell you to shove your self-righteously rationalized ugliness and meanness proudly proclaimed to be great fun. People when they find a rationale that helps them elude more mature restraint and judgment just love to savage one another. I don't exclude myself from this, but have learned to admit to myself that this is what it is when I fall prey to it. You should try this, too. And I have learned from practicing psychotherapy over decades that one cannot predict or discern other peoples' reasons for doing things without listening to what they say about it. If they don't say, you can't know but can only guess, usually badly.

 

[Riboge]

While I was writing and posting my just previous post Sovkiller made a statement that I find admirable and I thank him for it.