[Immortal]

I still don't understand if the filters are defective or not. I mean, after both emails it's still unclear if the problem is with the filter port AND the filters themselves.

 

[HungryPanda]

I got my Zenith today, and took this test. To me, they definitely sound out of phase. Should the 2 pin connector be flipped only on one side (L or R), or both (L and R)? Thanks for your advice.

just on one side

 

[mw7485]

Yeah, I feel bad for him really. After Trinity, he has worked really hard to improve his image and has done so admirably. On the other hand, I'm not sure what his costs are per unit so maybe it won't be too bad.



I wonder if the ceramic piezo is out of wack. It controls the highs so it could be soldered incorrectly or something. I really wish I knew the tech specs for the error.

What I can't understand is, if his 20 QA units were correctly sampled why at least one of them didn't display the characteristics that have triggered all of this, although obviously we have no idea how big the production run was. Perhaps it was just one operative that was doing things wrong. I do know he didn't do a 100% check though, as I needed to get a new blue filter as one of mine had a malformed thread and wouldn't engage correctly. Personally, I'm happy with my Zeniths, swapping between blue with wide bore Symbios, and occasionally going pink with spiral dots. No phase issues here - having made that mistake a few years ago, I know how obvious that sounds. Perhaps I was just really lucky (for once)!

 

[sino8r]

I still don't understand if the filters are defective or not. I mean, after both emails it's still unclear if the problem is with the filter port AND the filters themselves.

It maybe both. I'll email Bob and find out the technical details. If I were to place a bet, I'd blame the piezoelectric ceramic part that controls the highs. Everyone who mentioned a problem with sound includes something about the high frequency being out of control and only tamed by the bassy filter. That should not be the case with the standard IMR sound. Something is really off with some units. I had a feeling it wasn't just filters because those who reported it are people who have used the R1 and recognize the style of sound and shape of the iems. It couldn't be the seal and filters alone. This actually makes alot of sense now. Hopefully Bob will give a more technical answer than internal filter. We need more clarification although I trust he'll do everything to fix the issue.

 

[Immortal]

It maybe both. I'll email Bob and find out the technical details. If I were to place a bet, I'd blame the piezoelectric ceramic part that controls the highs. Everyone who mentioned a problem with sound includes something about the high frequency being out of control and only tamed by the bassy filter. That should not be the case with the standard IMR sound. Something is really off with some units. I had a feeling it wasn't just filters because those who reported it are people who have used the R1 and recognize the style of sound and shape of the iems. It couldn't be the seal and filters alone. This actually makes alot of sense now. Hopefully Bob will give a more technical answer than internal filter. We need more clarification although I trust he'll do everything to fix the issue.

Exactly my thought! Because at this point I'm kinda worried that only the people without R1s are actually enjoying the new Zenith, and that is ringing the bell "Zeniths are not better than R1s". Even in terms of soundstage and so on, there are not so many enthusiastic users here.
And with my R1s, even using the copper filter to empathize bass but with recessed highs, I have a HUGE soundstage. So if it's just a treble problem that you can solve changing the filters and/or fixing the piezolectric ceramic part, I'm unsure whether it changes other aspects of the iems or not (it means that people using copper filter on the Zeniths should already listen to a superior IEM than R1s).

 

[sino8r]

Exactly my thought! Because at this point I'm kinda worried that only the people without R1s are actually enjoying the new Zenith, and that is ringing the bell "Zeniths are not better than R1s". Even in terms of soundstage and so on, there are not so many enthusiastic users here.
And with my R1s, even using the copper filter to empathize bass but with recessed highs, I have a HUGE soundstage. So if it's just a treble problem that you can solve changing the filters and/or fixing the piezolectric ceramic part, I'm unsure whether it changes other aspects of the iems or not (it means that people using copper filter on the Zeniths should already listen to a superior IEM than R1s).

Bob said he would email me some details and images for me to share here tomorrow. I'm very curious what it is as well.

 

[Turboturbo]

That almost sounds like yours are out of phase imo. Go on YouTube and listen to a in phase test video preferably one with music. If that's the case, grab a torx screwdriver and flip the 2 pin connector. Someone did already have a phase issue here a while back so it's very possible...

Here's a good one I use on those KZs with quality control issues.

Hi thanks for sharing !

I ran that YouTube test and flipped the the +/- but "out of phase" definitely sounds a lot better with a lot more headroom etc.

Does that mean there's something wrong with my R1Z?

 

[JohnRS]

Bob said he would email me some details and images for me to share here tomorrow. I'm very curious what it is as well.

It'll be interesting to see if it's a relatively easy DIY fix. As mentioned inevitably there will be people selling their defective ones on eBay to unsuspecting people but it would be nice if there were a way for people to fix defective units if bought unknowingly, or even a way they can be checked visually. I suppose there'es nothing wrong with selling them with an honest description stating they're defective.

 

[Immortal]

Bob said he would email me some details and images for me to share here tomorrow. I'm very curious what it is as well.

Can't wait! I just received mine but only in the evening I'll have time to test them.

 

[rocko77]

Hi thanks for sharing !

I ran that YouTube test and flipped the the +/- but "out of phase" definitely sounds a lot better with a lot more headroom etc.

Does that mean there's something wrong with my R1Z?

It may sound louder out of phase because it's not stereo imaging properly. If it's in phase the music should be central. If it's out of phase it will sound like it's coming out of both channels rather than disappearing into the mix.

 

[sino8r]

So, they are out of phase. Simple fix for most with a torx screwdriver. Here's Bobs reply...

Dear Customers,

I do not want to keep bombarding you with emails but I want to keep you up to date.

As you may imagine I was quite horrified when the problem occured with the sound issue on the Zenith. As you may have guessed I take any issue with my product very personally and absolutely do not want any user to be disappointed with the product I have created, these are my babies and want them to be loved.

I went into panic mode when the problem arose and started looking at everything I knew would cause the problem and in turn emailed you and said its this, its that, I shall sort it. The problem with panic mode is that quite often you do not see the problem starring you right it the face holding a big red sign shouting "hey, the problem is here"! Well I did, I missed it, overlooked it and didn't even think it was the issue, didn't even cross my mind. Well aren't I the idiot!

The problem is in almost all cases the right 2 pin connector oriented out of phase. This creates the high pitch nastiness and also what stops the sound stage.

I have checked so many today and made the changes and the sound , once corrected, is just how I intended, beautiful!

So now I have to eat some humble pie (doesn't taste that great by the way) and say ignore everything I have previously said, I was talking rubbish.

Tomorrow I will send one further email to you all with instructions and images of how the pins should be orientated and how the correct wiring from the driver to the 2 pin connector should be so that those who feel inclined and would like to can make this very simple swap and get the sound you paid for. For any of those who do not feel comfortable with this I will send a replacement unit.

Despite what I said in a previous email I will need to collect back any units I ship replacements for but I will cover any reasonable cost by PayPal.

By way of any apology for allowing this to happen I will send all of you a silver plated 2.5mm balanced thin cable.

What i would request now is that no one email until you get the next email tomorrow and advise if you need me to do the swap out.

I am still trying to get to the bottom of who caused this issue and be assured that once I do they will be getting a metaphorical high five in the face.....with a chair!

Although issues like this do muddy the experience somewhat I hope you love them once sorted.

Once again my apologies for this unnecessary problem.

Regards

Bob

 

[JohnRS]

The best part about Bob's solution is "I am still trying to get to the bottom of who caused this issue and be assured that once I do they will be getting a metaphorical high five in the face.....with a chair!"

 

[sino8r]

The best part about Bob's solution is "I am still trying to get to the bottom of who caused this issue and be assured that once I do they will be getting a metaphorical high five in the face.....with a chair!"

Lol! I'd be pissed too if I were him. I used to work in IT field myself and the first lesson we learned was Occam's razor. Oh well... It happens.

It sounded like a phase issue to me but I was perplexed without mine here yet. I could only guess.

 

[rocko77]

Lol! I'd be pissed too if I were him. I used to work in IT field myself and the first lesson we learned was Occam's razor. Oh well... It happens.

It sounded like a phase issue to me but I was perplexed without mine here yet. I could only guess.

As a home fix would this have to include desoldering and desoldering or is it a push on connection? I never stripped down my R1

 

[Immortal]

Too bad we don't get a new pair of zeniths
Btw how did he come out with all the density/measures problems in the filters if now they're ok?

ps: if only one driver is out of phase, you should still recognize it with an audio test or it just sounds bad and you have to open the Zeniths to check?