[H20Fidelity]

Thanks for the pointers guys on dealing with fit/imbalance!

 

[markanini]

Here's the EQ curve I've been happy with lately with my ER4S:

 

It brings out the ambiance of vocals, keys, guitars yet remains smooth through the treble range. Probably requires a deep fit with the stock triflange or Klipsch bi-flange to pull off.

 

[tomscy2000]

Quote:

  Wow the L05QD sounds interesting. I found their page here, but over $1000 is a bit much for me. I wonder if they'd consider making a universal version of their customs. Would you consider the L05QD to have more of a "V" shape versus the ER4S? If so, how drastic would you estimate the bass and treble emphasis to be? Are there any any other sonic benefits to using more drivers? They do mention less distortion on their page. My apologies for so many questions! This just sounds really cool.

 
Yes, it should have more headroom with regard to distortion. However, the 2300 series tends to have more distortion than the ED, so perhaps the ER4 is on par with the QD in terms of distortion.
 
And yes, the QD seems to have a little more of a V shaped compared to the ER4S, but I haven't compared the two outright. It's not a drastic difference, perhaps +3 dB at 100 Hz and 10k Hz, respectively --- keep in mind this is a massive guess and should be in no way construed as "the truth".
 
No, I don't think they're making a universal version. I was helping someone inquire about a demo mold version of it, and they didn't go for it. Too bad. I think the QD would make for a very interesting universal.
 
I too think $1000 is a bit too much, especially for the cost of the parts, even factoring in labor. This is a case of CW pricing it to be on par with what other products sound. It really does have a very detailed sound that seems to trump the ER4 series in soundstage presentation. I don't know if it's completely necessary to use four drivers, two would've probably been fine, but I assume the headroom was the big issue in using four.

 

[kkcc]

Quote:

This is huge. 1plus2 has similar mids to the ER4? Also interested in that canalworks iem. Where did you demo them?

 
Gnarlsagan, I think I generally agree with Tomsy2000's comments on 1plus2 and CW-L05QD.  Between the two the L05QD is definitely a lot closer in FR to the ER4S and that's why I bring it up in the first place.  
 
When I mentioned the 1plus2 being similar, it is not with reference to any specific frequencies but how dark/bright the overall tonality is. It better sound a lot different to command such a huge price!  I had became a fans of ER4S for its accurate tone, fast tight bass, and well extended treble, plus the overall cohesiveness.  Been demoing and buying numerous IEMs looking for these same attributes and 1plus2 gave me all these attributes while being much more musical and with textured/impactful/fast bass.  It gave me (and to a lesser extend, the RE600 also) the "best of both worlds" of analytical yet musical presentation that I've been searching for so long.  
 
I demo'ed the L05QD in Hong Kong.  It's price is closer to $1400!!  If it is around 1k or closer to the japanese MSRP I would have jumped on it.  It being custom only also limited any reasonable resell opportunity and made it even more expensive to own.  Finally I went with the 1plus2.

 

[gnarlsagan]

Quote:

Here's the EQ curve I've been happy with lately with my ER4S:

 

It brings out the ambiance of vocals, keys, guitars yet remains smooth through the treble range. Probably requires a deep fit with the stock triflange or Klipsch bi-flange to pull off.

 
Interesting. Just spent a couple hours playing with this eq. Using a tone generator I've found that I hear a dip at ~7k, but only by a few dB. So I tried eq-ing 7k up by about 3-4dB, and A-B'ed that against the bass-boost-only eq. Having a boost at 7k can be beneficial to some recordings, but for most recordings I found it to add too much emphasis for vocals and sometimes cymbals. But this was largely recording dependent. Experiments like this always remind me that there are way too many differently mastered recordings out there for one iem or eq setting to be the final word. 
 
I definitely wouldn't boost 7k as high as 10dB like you, but I'd encourage others to try 3dB first and move up until the most preferred setting is found. 

 

[markanini]

Quote:

 
Interesting. Just spent a couple hours playing with this eq. Using a tone generator I've found that I hear a dip at ~7k, but only by a few dB. So I tried eq-ing 7k up by about 3-4dB, and A-B'ed that against the bass-boost-only eq. Having a boost at 7k can be beneficial to some recordings, but for most recordings I found it to add too much emphasis for vocals and sometimes cymbals. But this was largely recording dependent. Experiments like this always remind me that there are way too many differently mastered recordings out there for one iem or eq setting to be the final word. 
 
I definitely wouldn't boost 7k as high as 10dB like you, but I'd encourage others to try 3dB first and move up until the most preferred setting is found. 

Sorry, I was in a hurry and neglected to mention that I scale back band 3 and 4 by 50% or so. 
EDIT:
This is what the values are based on(Courtesy of Rin):
 > 
 
So what was shown in my screenshot are generated parametric values before further subjective tweaking has taken place.
 
I agree with everything you said, especially nuissance of varying EQ in recordings. Another thing worth considering is bore acoustics which have the biggest and most complex effect on the treble range. Deep fit sounds different from shallow fit, Shure Olives sound different from tri-flanges etc.

 

[luisdent]

It's funny you guys are discussing this.  I think gnarlsagan and I are sound brothers haha
 
I was actually going to post my updated eq a few days ago, but I've been really busy.  I've been feeling the er4s was lacking a very small openness in the treble somewhere. (relatively speaking of course).  Upon listening and looking at some graphs, I found they had a slight dip around 7.5khz.  Like gnarlsagan, I find only a few db is good.  After that some recording show too much presence there.  However, at 7.5khz rather than 7khz, you can go closer to 4db without issue, just keep the width of your eq curve small enough.
 
Anyhow, using this new eq has a few benefits.  It actually improves the bass for me.  I find that a lot of bass guitars have string noises that seem to show up better in a way with the 7.5khz boosted to "flat" levels.  You don't necessarily think "wow, i hear the bass strings", but what it does is make the bass instrument as a whole sound more real and convincing.  This gives the impression of better bass.  Small difference, but it's there for me.  And things just sound more naturally open and airy a bit.  I'm liking it.

 

[luisdent]

Bad news guys.  I was shown a thread about group buys, and apparently they aren't allowed on head-fi.
 
You can see Jude (the administrator's) post about them here: post #255
 
It stinks, and although I disagree with Jude a lot, I do feel as though we should respect the policy if we want to continue posting on his forum.  So, I'm going to message him to see if he'll make an exception, as we are not trying to make deals with anyone, but rather simply save on shipping.  I'll let you know what he says.  Otherwise, I guess the group buy will have to be suspended for now.  Sorry. :-/

 

[gnarlsagan]

Quote:

It's funny you guys are discussing this.  I think gnarlsagan and I are sound brothers haha
 
I was actually going to post my updated eq a few days ago, but I've been really busy.  I've been feeling the er4s was lacking a very small openness in the treble somewhere. (relatively speaking of course).  Upon listening and looking at some graphs, I found they had a slight dip around 7.5khz.  Like gnarlsagan, I find only a few db is good.  After that some recording show too much presence there.  However, at 7.5khz rather than 7khz, you can go closer to 4db without issue, just keep the width of your eq curve small enough.
 
Anyhow, using this new eq has a few benefits.  It actually improves the bass for me.  I find that a lot of bass guitars have string noises that seem to show up better in a way with the 7.5khz boosted to "flat" levels.  You don't necessarily think "wow, i hear the bass strings", but what it does is make the bass instrument as a whole sound more real and convincing.  This gives the impression of better bass.  Small difference, but it's there for me.  And things just sound more naturally open and airy a bit.  I'm liking it.

 
Wow that's weird that you came across the same eq setting. I don't think I need to move it up to the 7.5k, because 7k is right smack in the middle of the dip for my ears (using tones). What I will try is narrowing it more. I think my setting is affecting the other frequencies too much for my taste. Again though, it heavily depends on the recording to my ears, which makes it so tough to settle on one eq. 
 
That sucks about the group buy. I do think this isn't a typical "group buy." I think these filters are only available from mouser. And they're only dollar or two. Kind of a way different scenario than shopping around for cheaper custom earphones. They just charge too much for shipping! It's probably because they use a box instead of an envelope for the tiny little filters. 
 
Edit: Group-buy exceptions are made for diy parts that are difficult to obtain. I think this might fit that criteria. 

 

[luisdent]

Quote:

Edit: Group-buy exceptions are made for diy parts that are difficult to obtain. I think this might fit that criteria. 

 
I message jude about this to see if we could get an exception.  I'll see what he says.
 
As for the eq, I haven't listened to much music since I made the change the other day.  I might find that 7khz is better, I'm not sure.  I'll play around more.  But on my fuze v2 I'm using 7.5khz with a q-width of 3.0 and a gain of 4.0.  I'm not sure exactly how the q-width relates to a different eq app, but it is somewhere in the middle of the fuze's settings, and I set it based on listening alone, switching it higher and lower until I found the sweet spot.  Time will tell if I decide to keep the setting.

 

[markanini]

Try two shelf filters for 7.5k. A single peak filter WILL sound like crap beyond 2-3dB.

 

[luisdent]

Try two shelf filters for 7.5k. A single peak filter WILL sound like crap beyond 2-3dB.

Im limited by my eq apps here :-/. I wish i had something better...

 

[luisdent]

Great news! The filter group buy is back on!

From jude...

"luisdent,

So this is just for the filters, correct?

If so, understood, and, yes, go ahead.

Thanks for writing.

I've cc'd other moderators, so that they know, too.

Best Regards,
Jude"

 

[gnarlsagan]

I've spent quite a few hours over the last few months looking up info about whether a clip+ or fuze could properly drive the ER4S, coming up empty handed. I finally found some decent info on he-who-shall-not-be-named's site from the man himself.
 

Anonymous /img/forum/go_quote.gif

Hi,

Excellent article on the Clip+ you wrote here. The measurements were really convincing. I read it has more power than average players and I was wondering if I should get one.

But I wasn't sure whether it has enough power for what I use. Of all the iems I have, the hardest one to drive is an ER-4S (100 Ohms impedance, 90dB SPL at 0.1V).

So, I'd like to know if the Clip+ has enough power for the ER-4S. I tried reading your other articles, but I'm no good at doing the math and tech stuff. Please help.

Thanks.

 

he-who-shall-not-be-named /img/forum/go_quote.gif

The Clip+ should work great with the ER-4S unless you're into hearing damage. It will drive them to 114+ dB peak.

 
 




Can someone with more in-depth knowledge comment about this? Otherwise I'm going to assume that the clip+ and the fuze can power the ER4S as stated here.
 

 

[vwinter]

Can with more in-depth knowledge comment about this? Otherwise I'm going to assume that the clip+ and the fuze can power the ER4S as stated here.
 

I'd personally like to know how to calculate maximum dB of a specific earphone and DAP combo. That way I could guesstimate how badly I'm harming my hearing.