[tstarn06]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jedi_edward007 /img/forum/go_quote.gif ^ no idea why you wont go terribly wrong with both, thats the bottomline. if you like bass and warmish sound and superior headstage, go ie8. if you like an all-rounded gear that performs on more musical platforms, tf10. if you are rich enough, buy both and try both. if you are richer than that, go custom at once to save your wallet from the upgrade bug. my 2cents.

Good suggestions, and I agree with your view on the IE8/TF10. But the OP also asked if there were any other IEMs that might work for him/her, even though the headline says IE8 vs. TF10. Apart from the CK10s, there could be others as well.

 

[tstarn06]

Quote:

Originally Posted by james444 /img/forum/go_quote.gif soozieq, cn11 and tstarn06. Is this just a sense of déjà vu or did I really have bad dream about the AMP3 last night?

LOL.

No, I just like to keep the facts, not speculation, straight. The OP did ask for other suggestions, so that needed to be clarified. And to me, when someone who has not heard nor owned a piece of gear uses reviews, in this case one review, to even discuss a piece of gear (I believe he said the review "rules out" the CK10), I think it's only fair to address the matter.

I posted first about the CK10s, you can check that. I think two other members then joined the thread, one to make the above assertion, and the other to second it. Oh, and so far, we have seen no evidence from said well-respected HFers (who own the CK10s) that they are, in fact, bass lite by their nature (though they certainly can sound thin and bass lite with a poor fit/tip, on that I agree).

I think that's fair, no? I believe I made my point, and there is no hostility behind it, just the notion that if you are going to make statements (discuss, recommend, whatever) about a product, you should be able to provide some decent evidence to support it (not just a single review). So let the hostility end. Hey, at this point the OP might have already bought his IE8 or TF10, or even a pair of CK10s, who knows?

In the end, I am thrilled I finally pulled the trigger on the CK10s (after seeing Shigzeo, Joker and AudioDwebe's reviews, among others), as they have me listening to music more than ever before. That's all I need in an IEM, and they are the first pair that have given me that quality. If others don't care for them or find them thin, bass lite, whatever, not much I can do but enjoy the music.

 

[tstarn06]

Quote:

Originally Posted by average_joe /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hey, I have the IE8 and TF10 with the CK10 on the way. Between the IE8 and TF10, I would have to say the IE8 all the way, far superior. But that is with tip extenders (see my sig). Without tip extender it is much closer, but the IE8 still wins IMO. As far as where the CK10 stands, mine should be here tomorrow, so when I get a chance to hear them I will post my comparison thoughts. I hear the IE8 vs. TF10 like this: And here is where I disagree: To me, the IE8 has a large mid-bass hump that overshadows the deep bass, but the details and textures are there. I haven't listened without the tip extenders since to me they improve the IE8 so much. Here is what they have done for me: huge transparency increase, wider soundstage, brings the mids closer, slightly better instrument separation, slightly reduces the mid-bass hump. But with that all said, I still listen to the Mingo WM2 (silver with an amp, gold without) more than the IE8 or the TF10! Go figure.

Looking forward to your thoughts on the three compared. My guess is you may still find the IE8s your favorites, because you've liked them for so long. But who knows? We don't always agree on what sounds best to us, that's for sure.

 

[average_joe]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iponderous /img/forum/go_quote.gif Then try them without your "tip extenders" and get back to me. It may be worth mentioning that I'm comparing both phones using the standard silicon tips that came with them out of an unamped 2nd Gen. ipod touch. So perhaps you should factor those possible variables into your listening experience, before disagreeing with mine. I'd go so far as to say that the TF10's bass goes deeper than the IE8's to my ears and it is more articulate. I don't have to listen out for this because it's very apparent to me. I didn't mention the IE8's highs, which I think extend just as far as the TF10's and arguably further. Again, they are just rendered differently. They are softer than the TF10's but no less detailed.

Perhaps you should re-read my post
Quote:

Without tip extender it is much closer, but the IE8 still wins IMO.

Quote:

To me, the IE8 has a large mid-bass hump that overshadows the deep bass, but the details and textures are there. I haven't listened without the tip extenders since to me they improve the IE8 so much.

And I was going to put some info about amping both, but I feel the same way about them. Sure, an amp will smooth the rough edges of the TF10 a little and control the bass of the IE8 slightly better, but to me the IE8 is still my preferred IEM. The IE8 has less advantages to me with a lower end source such as the Fuze vs. an amp. From my Fuze the TF10 mids are very recessed, but improve with an amp. The IE8 mid bass is very present, but improves with an amp. IMO, regardless of source, it really comes down to smooth, immersive sound vs. a more analytical sound with the details more in your face.

And Quote:

To me, the IE8 has a large mid-bass hump that overshadows the deep bass, but the details and textures are there.

The deep bass is there, just not as easy to discern due to the amount of mid bass. Both are very warm though.


Quote:

Originally Posted by tstarn06 /img/forum/go_quote.gif No hating, just wanted to be straight that the OP's original thread is open to more than the IE8 or the TF10s, which was obviously not read by some here.

That is what this place is all about, offering other possible options. It is a discussion board, right? I am sure the OP doesn't mind an additional option being added to the mix.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tstarn06 /img/forum/go_quote.gif But back to the topic, someone made a comment that the CK10s are bass lite based on one review and at this point unknown well-respected HFers' opinions. I believe it's my right to disagree since I do own them, while pointing out that that member does not. That's fair enough, right?

Probably the Sound & Vision review where the reviewer (if I remember correctly) thought the IE8 was lacking bass also. I think I remember reading something to the effect that the IE8 mids and treble were great, but the reviewer expected more bass at that price point. Not my experience at all, and so I will take the rest of their reviews with a grain of salt. I would rely on a trusted head-fi review over almost any pro review

 

[tstarn06]

Right you are. The S&V reviewer said this about the IE8:

"The Sennheiser’s primary weakness was that it was missing that last little bit of bass that would have lent more impact to R&B tracks like “I Can’t Stand the Pain” and the African drums.

BOTTOM LINE

Hip-hop fans might yearn for more bottom end, but the IE8’s accurate and refined midrange and highs, solid dynamic capabilities, and effective soundstage presentation place it among the top three in this test. A great choice for classical music fans."

 

[dweaver]

One thing I think gets missed in offering our experiences with different IEMs and the OP's request is volume level. In my opinion the TF10 for example stops being "polite" and gets very rich as I crank up the volume, the problem is that I personally don't listen to my music at louder leveled (on my Ipod the volume is usually 1/4 to 1/3 with just shy of 50% being as loud as I really like my music, with my amp I hardly even turn up the knob) so I rarely get to hear the TF10 when it sounds it's best.

The IE8 on the other hand is sounding closer to it's louder signature in lower volume levels and I may even find if I do want to listen to it at the highest volume levels I like I may have to tone down the bass. But I really like being able to feel and experience bass (probably should be saying midbass) at lower volume levels, as well as being able to hear treble detail and have slightly more forward mids.

One other thing I will say for the OP, the IE8 are simple put them in my ears and forget about them (I use ear hooks) IEM's and are very comfortable for me (I prefer shallow insertion IEM's). The TF10 on the other hand are uber finicky and I find myself playing with them all the time and rarely forget they are in my ears. This factor is HUGE for me as I hate feeling things in my ears and I hate having to fidget.

 

[Hentai11]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iponderous The TF10 separates and highlights them, whereas the IE8 weaves them into the overall presentation, but they are all there.

Not to my ears. When I hear percussion attack, bowing on string instruments, or plucking on guitar strings, I find the IE8s markedly "fuzzier" than the TF10s. Dismal? No, not by a long shot, but a clear second.

Quote:

Bloated means swelled

When I talk about bloated bass, I usually mean to be pejorative; not swelled, but swollen. What I meant to say is that while the IE8 bass is strong, it isn't as overwhelming or as sloppy as phones whose bass I do find bloated, such as the UE sf5EB.

 

[Poimandres]

Both the IE8 and TF10's are really good phones. You can read all the reviews that you would like but when it comes down to it the reviews are simply opinions of the author based upon his/her experience with the product and possibly compare/contrast with their experiences with another product that is similar to the original product. Just because one person has had a good or bad experience with a certain product doesn't mean that you will.

That being said I prefer the IE8's paired with my Cowon S9, since I have purchased the senns my tf10's do not get much use. With the senns and the double flanges I get a seal just as good as with the triplefis, the senns are also a lot lighter and once set I do not have to keep readjusting as I do with the tf10's. I find that the TF10's high's are sparkly and sometimes overbearable, also while the bass is there it is not as clear or as deep as the IE8's. With the IE8's you will definately need burn in whereas the TF10's do not. I have well over 100 hours burn in on the IE8's and the soundstage is superior to the 10's, the overall sound in my opinion is more refined and will immerse you into the music completely. The separation is phenominal, the highs are definately not as sparkly as the 10's but I would not say that they are worse; better in the sense that it does not overwhelm my ears.

Bottom line is your ears in the end will decide for you, if it is possible try to find a pair of both to listen to. Although if you can still find the tf10's for 150 on ebay you will be hard pressed to find a better pair of phones at that price. Also for another 80 dollars I believe fisher hearing can mold your 10's into customs.

 

[gameboy115]

I like full burn in IE8 more.

The way TF10 presents vocal is like UM3X, the difference is recessed mid with little detail offered, tad bright but more detailed high, overall tone of vocal is pretty similar.TF10 is superior at transparency and dynamic while UM3x leaves far behind in this area. UM3x just give you more detail and excellent instrument separation.

IE8 is different beast. Much warmer with little laid back mid. The way it present vocal is more mellow, especially man vocal. It offers better sound stage and dynamic than TF10, not to mention bloated bass which I like it so much ,but may not be your taste.

My 2 cent~

 

[iponderous]

Quote:

Originally Posted by average_joe /img/forum/go_quote.gif Perhaps you should re-read my post And I was going to put some info about amping both, but I feel the same way about them. Sure, an amp will smooth the rough edges of the TF10 a little and control the bass of the IE8 slightly better, but to me the IE8 is still my preferred IEM. The IE8 has less advantages to me with a lower end source such as the Fuze vs. an amp. From my Fuze the TF10 mids are very recessed, but improve with an amp. The IE8 mid bass is very present, but improves with an amp. IMO, regardless of source, it really comes down to smooth, immersive sound vs. a more analytical sound with the details more in your face. And The deep bass is there, just not as easy to discern due to the amount of mid bass. Both are very warm though.

Yes, I should have read your post more closely before responding. My apologies.

The mids of the TF10 are recessed to my ears as well. Although I don't find any "rough edges" with the TF10, I do think that its highs are sharper than the IE8's. Yes, I suppose you could describe the TF10 as more analytical in that it tends to highlight details more and provide greater instrument separation than the IE8, but I regard both phones as immersive. I would describe the IE8 as a warm phone but not so the TF10.

 

[gameboy115]

One more thing, if you decide to go for TF10, you may consider to buy some ear tips from nuforce, it provide 2X comfort from original eat tip coming with TF10

 

[iponderous]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hentai11 /img/forum/go_quote.gif When I talk about bloated bass, I usually mean to be pejorative; not swelled, but swollen. What I meant to say is that while the IE8 bass is strong, it isn't as overwhelming or as sloppy as phones whose bass I do find bloated, such as the UE sf5EB.

Why would I want to describe a phone that I have already referred to as one of my two favourites in pejorative terms?

 

[average_joe]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iponderous /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yes, I should have read your post more closely before responding. My apologies. The mids of the TF10 are recessed to my ears as well. Although I don't find any "rough edges" with the TF10, I do think that its highs are sharper than the IE8's. Yes, I suppose you could describe the TF10 as more analytical in that it tends to highlight details more and provide greater instrument separation than the IE8, but I regard both phones as immersive. I would describe the IE8 as a warm phone but not so the TF10.

I guess I don't hear the TF10 the same way you do, and I have tried every tip I own twice! Oh well, you can't please all the people all the time (and the person not being pleased is me!).

So, my CK10 experience...the first tips I tried were the triple flanges cut down to double flange. I was wondering where the bass was and was thinking the S&V review may just be right. But then, why would tstarn06 say they had bass? Really, I knew I just needed different tips, but didn't have much experimentation time, as I trust tstarn06, he is very experienced and wise!

So, I was searching through my tips. All the small ones didn't fit. The big ones didn't fit. So I pulled out the foam mushroom (or whatever they are called) and luckily they expanded over the CK10 nozzle (but the foam did rip at the base of the tip). Now I got it. There is the bass that tstarn talked about. OK, how do they compare (to my ears) with one source, the Fuze, as I don't have time for more.

TF10 vs CK10: the CK10 sounds like the TF10, but with the mids pulled up the warmth gone, and slightly smoother treble (and I take back my harsh treble and agree with iponderous' word sharper). OK, so the presentation really isn't all that close. Now, I am don't think the CK10 is necessarily more detailed, but it sure is clearer and more transparent than the TF10. The CK10 is the clear winner IMO. Deep bass isn't too different between the two when I have a good seal on the CK10. Oh, and the CK10 seems to have a wider soundstage than the TF10.

IE8 vs CK10: Wow, these sound very similar in the mids through the treble. The IE8 is more laid back, like being in a night club for a performance and being at a back table. The bass can be huge compared to the CK10. The details are more in your face with the CK10 with better instrument separation, but that is what you would expect sitting in the front row of that night club. Of course the IE8 soundstage wins, but with the Fuze as a source, the IE8 does not sound it's best. The CK10 did get some ear time with the AMP3 and is much smoother and sweeter with that source. Both are very enjoyable and extremely good.

And a note on my tip extender (for all you IE8 and TF10 owners), the IE8 with the tip extenders is about the same size as the TF10. And well worth the added SQ IMO. I guess the CK10 may just win out without the tip extenders!

 

[iponderous]

^ The CK10's sound very promising but I am concerned about the reports of fit issues that people are having with the supplied tips. What sized eartips do you normally take?

 

[grokit]

This TF10 vs. IE8 thread has the same "dynamics" as the HD600/650 comparisons that I have been following, where the TF10 is the HD600: detailed, sparkly highs with great separation and well-defined bass, and the IE8s are the HD650s: pleasantly bloated lows and warm mids, with rolled off highs. That some prefer one over the other is not surprising in either case, and I believe that this choice is made for the same reason, as far as individual listening preferences are concerned. So there