[zhgutov]

With the Violectric amp you can power the headphones but you get the feeling that there's about 30 - 40% of the headphones capabilities you're not 'harnessing'. IMO, It should sound more dynamic and more effortless.

Looks like there is some "line" where the preferences split.
Some people tell about more dynamics, other people didn't like this amps.
This is interesting...

Can you tell which headphone amps do you mean when you tell about that 30-40%?
I want to compare them by myself if I could find them of course.

 

[Oscar-HiFi]

I can agree with you about the HPA-1 with the Susvara also the HE-6 - I tried the HPA-1 with my HE-6 at London CanJam 2016. It couldn't drive them at all, I got clipping also. By the way, have the Pass Labs XA30.8 and it truly makes the Sasvara and HE-6 shine like nothing else! I have also driven my HE-6s with all the top Violectric amps so it would be similar results with the Susvara, Yes it has the power to drive them but you can still drive them better. The only way I can describe it is the effortless way!! similar to hearing a top artist singing and hitting notes effortlessly verses another artist singing and hitting good notes (they can surely sing) but it's not effortless. This is how the Sasvara and HE-6 is - to hear them at their best requires lots of high-quality current from a transparent amp.

No doubt there are better pairings than the V281, that is not what I was trying to get across. I was merely saying the V281 drives them fine, without clipping, distortion or constrained dynamics, it is effortless but there will be better sounding amps out there.

I wish I could try them with my current system, I think they would sound incredible out of it.

 

[AnakChan]

I have to clarify that I have personally -not- tried the V281. When I quoted mrlawng9 & Oscar, I was proposing what mrlawng9 -could have- meant paralleling to my personal experience of (Avant Garde) systems where they are driven with authority but effortlessly.

But I made a poor job explaining my proposal. So apologies about that. BTW is my proposal correct? I guess some would say yes and some would say no. I’ll have to get access to a V281 to confirm myself.

However of amps that drive the Susvara effortlessly that I’ve personally experienced (aside from my MC275 VI), sadly the amp is unavailable outside of Japan, and that’s the OjiSpecial BDI-DC24B-G & it’s larger brother BDI-DC44B-G, and naturally Hifiman’s own EF1000.

 

[zhgutov]

BTW is my proposal correct? I guess some would say yes and some would say no. I’ll have to get access to a V281 to confirm myself.

If I understand you correctly, and this addressed to the point where some may find V281 enough, but others may find it lacking the dynamics...
I've seen the impressions about V281 and Wells Milo driving LCD4, where one tell what Milo has much better dynamics.
But after that I found the different opinion, where V281 was considered better, and Milo have leaved with "just no".
Milo is hard to touch where I am living, so I have not heard this amp.
I've seen another similar stories with V281, so this becomes interesting to know, is this truth, the personal preferences, or wrong comparison.

 

[JeffMann]

If I understand you correctly, and this addressed to the point where some may find V281 enough, but others may find it lacking the dynamics...
I've seen the impressions about V281 and Wells Milo driving LCD4, where one tell what Milo has much better dynamics.
But after that I found the different opinion, where V281 was considered better, and Milo have leaved with "just no".
Milo is hard to touch where I am living, so I have not heard this amp.
I've seen another similar stories with V281, so this becomes interesting to know, is this truth, the personal preferences, or wrong comparison.

I echo your question about the claimed limitations of the V281 where he stated that is was not harnessing 30-40% of the Susvara's capabilities.

What does he really mean by the claim "not harnessing capabilities". In what sense is the Susvara's sound deficient when using a V281?

Another point relates to soundstaging. I find the V281 sounds much better from a soundstaging and image precision perspective when used in balanced mode. Do these alternative amps (eg. Pass XA30.8) have excellent soundstaging and image precision capabilities? What about their "musical accuracy".

Finally, isn't their a significant risk of driver damage when using a very powerful speaker amp?

Jeff.

 

[zhgutov]

I echo your question about the claimed limitations of the V281 where he stated that is was not harnessing 30-40% of the Susvara's capabilities.

Moreover, it looks like this statement is not about the Susvara only. It is about the other headphones too.

 

[mrlawng9]

I finally got through to HiFiMan today - day 4! They were incredibly helpful and friendly and so we will begin the RMA process. Thank you to everyone including AnakChan and Hifiheaven for helping out on this - much appreciated!

Regarding the recent headphone / amp pairing discussion, the V281, it is a fantastic amp. It is the only amp out of half a dozen I own / have tried, that drove my LCD i4s to my satisfaction (I find them the hardest transducer I've ever owned to find the right amp for). The i4s, IMO, have a forward midrange that can get 'shouty' especially with female vocals (YMMV - this may be due to anomalies with my inner ear) but the V281 seems to interact with the i4s in the most effortless way making the sound flow as naturally as possible out of them. I also liked the Naim Headline 2 with a Teddy Pardo power supply, but the V281 offers more resolution. But IMO the V281 only drives the Susvaras satisfactorily. There are no lifelike dynamic swings, there is no 'wow' factor, soundstage is not the widest, and on and on... There is resolution, there is bass and treble, but you feel like there is a lot missing - especially an emotional connection to the music... The XA30.5 I was able to try before I purchased the Susvaras had all of these elements in spades. I wish I could add more adjectives or describe it better, but it is the type of thing that you know you have right when you have it right. And, this is where synergy becomes important and where science intersects with the dark arts Regarding science, a lot of it has to do with current. Planars have always been known for being current hogs. It is a rule of thumb with Magnepan planar speakers require massively high current amps. Wattage is a factor but not nearly as important as current. I've seen this first hand with many pairs of Maggies I've owned over the years. A 28 wpc 845 tube SET amp with massive current capabilities drove Maggies very well while similarly wattage amps struggled. I think the same is true for Susvara's. Use Pass Labs as an example (again!), the HPA-1 and the XA 30 watt amps (.5 / .8) all put out ~2.5 wpc at 60 ohms. It's unanimous that the HPA-1 struggles and the .5 / .8's sing. The dark arts part of the equation comes into play because there are other factors (scientific and likely non-scientific) that create and hinder synergies. Surely other factors come into play re: Susvara and V281. I hope this helps explain my perspective a little bit better...

 

[zhgutov]

Well, I can understand this point. But it is still interesting why others (some people) may have the opposite opinion.
Again, I have read the impressions, where someone compared V281 with the speaker amps paired with the HE-6 and Abyss, who found V281 better (less noise in some cases, good dynamics, more accurate).
And I have seen the impressions, where someone, like you, told what the speaker amps have more dynamics and slam in the bass.

 

[mrlawng9]

@zhgutov - like the range of performance / synergies one gets with different phones and headamps, the same is true for speaker amps, and speaker amps powering specific headphones. I think bucketing speaker amps into one large category might be at issue. I'm sure the V281 does sound better than many speaker amps out there on many headphones. As you point out, not all are quiet, and other factors such as an amp's 60 ohm performance, and a million other factors come into play. In the case of the Pass Class A gear, there seems to be an impressive amount of synergy with Susvaras.

 

[JeffMann]

I finally got through to HiFiMan today - day 4! They were incredibly helpful and friendly and so we will begin the RMA process. Thank you to everyone including AnakChan and Hifiheaven for helping out on this - much appreciated!

Regarding the recent headphone / amp pairing discussion, the V281, it is a fantastic amp. It is the only amp out of half a dozen I own / have tried, that drove my LCD i4s to my satisfaction (I find them the hardest transducer I've ever owned to find the right amp for). The i4s, IMO, have a forward midrange that can get 'shouty' especially with female vocals (YMMV - this may be due to anomalies with my inner ear) but the V281 seems to interact with the i4s in the most effortless way making the sound flow as naturally as possible out of them. I also liked the Naim Headline 2 with a Teddy Pardo power supply, but the V281 offers more resolution. But IMO the V281 only drives the Susvaras satisfactorily. There are no lifelike dynamic swings, there is no 'wow' factor, soundstage is not the widest, and on and on... There is resolution, there is bass and treble, but you feel like there is a lot missing - especially an emotional connection to the music... The XA30.5 I was able to try before I purchased the Susvaras had all of these elements in spades. I wish I could add more adjectives or describe it better, but it is the type of thing that you know you have right when you have it right. And, this is where synergy becomes important and where science intersects with the dark arts Regarding science, a lot of it has to do with current. Planars have always been known for being current hogs. It is a rule of thumb with Magnepan planar speakers require massively high current amps. Wattage is a factor but not nearly as important as current. I've seen this first hand with many pairs of Maggies I've owned over the years. A 28 wpc 845 tube SET amp with massive current capabilities drove Maggies very well while similarly wattage amps struggled. I think the same is true for Susvara's. Use Pass Labs as an example (again!), the HPA-1 and the XA 30 watt amps (.5 / .8) all put out ~2.5 wpc at 60 ohms. It's unanimous that the HPA-1 struggles and the .5 / .8's sing. The dark arts part of the equation comes into play because there are other factors (scientific and likely non-scientific) that create and hinder synergies. Surely other factors come into play re: Susvara and V281. I hope this helps explain my perspective a little bit better...

You wrote-: "But IMO the V281 only drives the Susvaras satisfactorily. There are no lifelike dynamic swings, there is no 'wow' factor, soundstage is not the widest, and on and on... There is resolution, there is bass and treble, but you feel like there is a lot missing - especially an emotional connection to the music...".

Your opinion is of no value from my personal perspective because it is purely subjective and therefore personally biased. My audio system (PS Audio Perfect Wave Transport => Matrix X-Sabre Pro DAC => Violectric V281 => Susvara) produces large dynamic swings, and it has a very wide soundstage with precise imaging, and it allows me to connect emotionally to the music better than any audio system that I have heard in my 47 years of being an audiophile. From my personal perspective, I find myself now frequently saying "WOW!" when I hear recorded music that is more "life-like" (musically accurate) than I have ever previously experienced in the past 47 years.

Jeff.

 

[zhgutov]

Really, this is very interesting split

 

[mrlawng9]

You wrote-: "But IMO the V281 only drives the Susvaras satisfactorily. There are no lifelike dynamic swings, there is no 'wow' factor, soundstage is not the widest, and on and on... There is resolution, there is bass and treble, but you feel like there is a lot missing - especially an emotional connection to the music...".

Your opinion is of no value from my personal perspective because it is purely subjective and therefore personally biased. My audio system (PS Audio Perfect Wave Transport => Matrix X-Sabre Pro DAC => Violectric V281 => Susvara) produces large dynamic swings, and it has a very wide soundstage with precise imaging, and it allows me to connect emotionally to the music better than any audio system that I have heard in my 47 years of being an audiophile. From my personal perspective, I find myself now frequently saying "WOW!" when I hear recorded music that is more "life-like" (musically accurate) than I have ever previously experienced in the past 47 years.

Jeff.

I'm sorry my opinion is of no value to you! I'm not trying to be right. That's why I started my sentence with 'In my opinion'. I'm a long time lurker but infrequent poster because of the whacky dynamics on forums. If we don't have expectations that people are going to be providing their experiences and subjective comments then why do we have forums? Hearing has physical and psychological components. You will absolutely hear differently than I do - and I absolutely respect that you may have different opinions than mine. That's what makes horse races...

 

[AnakChan]

I’m not certain why this conversation has to get so personal. Really each has their own opinion without the need to convince the other (or having to justify one’s stance) for what they personally hear.

 

[JeffMann]

I'm sorry my opinion is of no value to you! I'm not trying to be right. That's why I started my sentence with 'In my opinion'. I'm a long time lurker but infrequent poster because of the whacky dynamics on forums. If we don't have expectations that people are going to be providing their experiences and subjective comments then why do we have forums? Hearing has physical and psychological components. You will absolutely hear differently than I do - and I absolutely respect that you may have different opinions than mine. That's what makes horse races...

I don't mind that you have a different opinion to me and I very much respect you right to harbor a different opinion.. However, I cannot learn anything useful from your opinion if it is expressed in such a vague manner that makes it very difficult (or impossible) for me to accurately identify what you find deficient about the V281-Susvara combination.

For example, I was just listening to the Cypress String Quartet's recording of one of Beethoven's middle period quartets using the V281-Susvara combination. I never had a sense that I was missing 30-40% of the sound quality of the 4 string instruments (2 violins, viola and cello) and I also never had a problem emotionally connecting to the music. You may listen to the same recording with the V281/Susvara combination and have the opposite opinion, but I cannot learn anything useful from the fact that we have different opinions. I simply cannot understand what prevents you from connecting emotionally to the music when it is reproduced by the V281-Susvara combination.

Jeff.

 

[Christer]

I agree that the Susvara is very involving and that it has very precise imaging that produces "palpable instruments" (a vague term that I use to describe very precise imaging where the instrument sounds very "real" with lots of air space/blackness between instruments). The two sound reproduction features of the Susvara that I particularly like is its "musical accuracy" and its smooth treble response that is totally free of sibilance. This is the first time in 47 years of being an avid audiophile (who mainly listens to classical music and opera) that I have been satisfied with the sound reproduction of female opera singer voices. On a scale of 1-to-10 for an exaggerated treble response - my Susvara is a zero, my HE1000v2 is a 3 and my HD800 is an 8.

I do not find the Susvara difficult to drive with my Violectric V281 and V280 headphone amplifiers. In fact, I have my Matrix Sabre-X Pro DAC's volume control set at -12db so that I can use my V281 headphone amplifier's volume control in the 11 - 1:30 o'clock range (when the V281's gain setting is at zero gain).

Jeff.

Interesting to read that you favour accuracy and listen to acoustic music like classical and opera.
I own a HEKV2 and prefer it over HD 800 with most of my music.
I was very positively surprised by the SQ of Susvara with DAVE/BLU2 and WA33 the only combo I have auditioned Susvara with so far.
But is it really twice as good as HEKV2 in your opinion?
Is the exhorbitant price increase over HEKV2 really warranted?
Imho the HEK V2 is already a very very expensive headphone.