[Currawong]

I have a pair in for review here. Very industrial-looking but solid build quality. I'm pretty surprised at the sound quality. Sure, there isn't a great deal in the way of micro detail from them, but the excellent quality of the mids and treble make up for that. The treble is nicely centred between being bright, but not too much. I wouldn't mind a bit more in the bass. I find myself enjoying them out of the FiiO Q5 and iFi Pro iCan with the bass boost on.

 

[jsmiller58]

I have a pair in for review here. Very industrial-looking but solid build quality. I'm pretty surprised at the sound quality. Sure, there isn't a great deal in the way of micro detail from them, but the excellent quality of the mids and treble make up for that. The treble is nicely centred between being bright, but not too much. I wouldn't mind a bit more in the bass. I find myself enjoying them out of the FiiO Q5 and iFi Pro iCan with the bass boost on.

I am a big fan of your reviews and am looking forward to what you think of the Sundara!

 

[Currawong]

I am a big fan of your reviews and am looking forward to what you think of the Sundara!

Cheers!

Something I forgot to mention is, I saw a few people talking about easy or hard headphones were to driving depending on the volume on their device to get the same loudness. The Sundara is 73 Ohms, whereas both versions of the Aeon Flow are 13 Ohms, so as an obvious consequence the Sundara will need a higher volume setting on your amp to get the same volume level. This has NOTHING to do with "how hard" a pair of headphones are to drive, which is mostly a factor of their sensitivity. Gain (volume) and power are two different things.

 

[Gerelt971]

A quick comparison between two settings : Audio-GD Master 11 (Singularity, NOS mode) and the Schiit Gumby+Mjolnir 2 (stock tubes) combo.

- The Master 11 allow the Sundara to go even deeper in the sub-bass and also add a bit of mid-bass. You keep the sweet mids and the balanced treble. Overall, the sound is slighty warmer, more dynamic, punchy and lively, but you don't lose too much resolution.
- The Schiit combo add more space and the soundstage is slightly more distant. This combo gives the Sundara a more analytical signature, with even more layers, but without removing the fun nature of the headphone. It lets you have a deep listening of your music while keeping enough musicality for the headphones to not be too fatiguing after a long session.

I prefer the Master 11 pairing, cause IMO, it shows the true nature of the Sundra : very fun, resolving and clean enough to let you hear details while you enjoy your music. The one thing I would like from the Schiit combo, is this slightly more distant stage, and the bigger space.

 

[SilverEars]

Cheers!

Something I forgot to mention is, I saw a few people talking about easy or hard headphones were to driving depending on the volume on their device to get the same loudness. The Sundara is 73 Ohms, whereas both versions of the Aeon Flow are 13 Ohms, so as an obvious consequence the Sundara will need a higher volume setting on your amp to get the same volume level. This has NOTHING to do with "how hard" a pair of headphones are to drive, which is mostly a factor of their sensitivity. Gain (volume) and power are two different things.

Hifiman HE6 is 50 ohms, and the sensitivity is 83.5dB and Sennheiser HD650 is 300 ohms nominal, and it's 97 dB. Which do you think would get louder first with the volume knob? It's a misconception that volume is depends on ohmage.

Hifiman HE-560 is 45 ohms, 90 dB, and Sundara is 37 ohms, 94 dB.

In regards to bass, if you listen to Cascades regularly or your ears got used to it, headphones with good amount of bass even sounds bass-lite(it changes your perception). So, if you're ears are used to the Cascades, or if you swap back and forth with Cascades, your impressions will be skew'd. When I first heard the Cascades, I was like whoohh, BASS!! Slammin bass.

 

[Currawong]

I should have pointed out that the Aeon Flow Open and Sundara have the same sensitivity at 94dB. My bad.

 

[franz12]

Seeing that new 400i goes as low as $150, I couldn't resist, and I received it today. Unfortunately, what I immediately noticed is harsh high.
I think Sundara is definitely a step up from the 400i. Sundara is slightly bright, but its high does not sound harsh and thought quite smooth at least. But at the same time, the price of 400i is now too low...

 

[seanwee]

Seeing that new 400i goes as low as $150, I couldn't resist, and I received it today. Unfortunately, what I immediately noticed is harsh high.
I think Sundara is definitely a step up from the 400i. Sundara is slightly bright, but its high does not sound harsh and thought quite smooth at least. But at the same time, the price of 400i is now too low...

Can you give us a detailed comparison. People here are dying to know how the 400i and the Sundaras compare as there have not been any through comparisons.

 

[franz12]

Can you give us a detailed comparison. People here are dying to know how the 400i and the Sundaras compare as there have not been any through comparisons.

I wish, but my sundara has gone, so I have to rely on my audio memory. So just take it with a grain of salt. Sundara has overall more smooth presentation, better dynamics (more impactful), more open sounds, and more fun. Overall, it seems a solid step up. But I found the 400i is more comfortable oddly..

I hope @Currawong will give more detailed comparisons.

 

[Currawong]

I haven't ever even tried the 400 series. My main comparison will be with the Massdrop Focal Elex.

 

[Light - Man]

Seeing that new 400i goes as low as $150, I couldn't resist, and I received it today. Unfortunately, what I immediately noticed is harsh high.
I think Sundara is definitely a step up from the 400i. Sundara is slightly bright, but its high does not sound harsh and thought quite smooth at least. But at the same time, the price of 400i is now too low...

I wish, but my sundara has gone, so I have to rely on my audio memory. So just take it with a grain of salt. Sundara has overall more smooth presentation, better dynamics (more impactful), more open sounds, and more fun. Overall, it seems a solid step up. But I found the 400i is more comfortable oddly.

I have had the polar opposite experience to yours, except that the 400i is noticeably more comfortable with much better weight distribution through the headband, the 400i headband is also slightly padded with a little more adjustment for bigger heads.

Did you buy yours new for $150, I bought mine new 2 weeks ago for £180 on Amazon UK?

It makes me wonder if there is batch variation or that the most recent production units have improved?

Of course it could also be synergy and preference at play.

(I found that any brightness went away with about 50 hours burn-in time)

Any more opinions out there?

 

[franz12]

I have had the polar opposite experience to yours, except that the 400i is noticeably more comfortable with much better weight distribution through the headband, the 400i headband is also slightly padded with a little more adjustment for bigger heads.

Did you buy yours new for $150, I bought mine new 2 weeks ago for £180 on Amazon UK?

It makes me wonder if there is batch variation or that the most recent production units have improved?

Of course it could also be synergy and preference at play.

(I found that any brightness went away with about 50 hours burn-in time)

Any more opinions out there?

yes, it is sold at $150 from time to time, and $320 for he560.
Here is what I think. I think harshness should be separated from brightness. I listened to lots of female vocals, so smooth, tonality correct upper mids/lower treble is quite important for my headphone choice. If I categorize some headphones I heard,

1. Bright, but not harsh
2. Bright and harsh
3. harsh despite being dark.

In terms of brightness, I thought Sundara is on par with the 400i, and Sundara belongs to the category 1, and the 400i belongs to the category 2. And senn ie800 comes to my mind for the category 3.
Burn in may help, but I usually burn in on my head. And unfortunately, I can't listen the 400i for more than 15 mins due to harshness.....

 

[SilverEars]

yes, it is sold at $150 from time to time, and $320 for he560.
Here is what I think. I think harshness should be separated from brightness. I listened to lots of female vocals, so smooth, tonality correct upper mids/lower treble is quite important for my headphone choice. If I categorize some headphones I heard,

1. Bright, but not harsh
2. Bright and harsh
3. harsh despite being dark.

In terms of brightness, I thought Sundara is on par with the 400i, and Sundara belongs to the category 1, and the 400i belongs to the category 2. And senn ie800 comes to my mind for the category 3.
Burn in may help, but I usually burn in on my head. And unfortunately, I can't listen the 400i for more than 15 mins due to harshness.....

Lower treble on the Sundara was more subdued(you see that if you compare Innerfidelity graph of HE560 and the Sundara), so I didn't find it bright as the HE560 with the lower treble 7k lift is what I immedately noticed.

I think people sensitive to upper mids treble will say Sundara is on the bright side. I'm more sensitive to dips there.

 

[Light - Man]

Guess what Guys, the RHS driver has packed it in on my 400i.

I checked with a different source and also changed over the plugs into the drivers and it is definitely *****d!

I heard some weird distortion before it died.

My HiFiman journey ends for a while.

BTW, on a side note, I recently got the RE400 which I think is rather poor and don't understand how people can think that it is good - but such is life!

The Focal Spear S is way-way better (but I could not get it to stay in my ears having tried many tips, I guess IEM's are not for me)

 

[franz12]

Guess what Guys, the RHS driver has packed it in on my 400i.

I checked with a different source and also changed over the plugs into the drivers and it is definitely *****d!

I heard some weird distortion before it died.

My HiFiman journey ends for a while.

BTW, on a side note, I recently got the RE400 which I think is rather poor and don't understand how people can think that it is good - but such is life!

The Focal Spear S is way-way better (but I could not get it stay in my ears having tried many tips, I guess IEM's are not for me)

Sorry to hear that. In regards to IEM, I found airpods are superior than a bunch of hyped IEMs. I am not an IEM guy though (image of sound is too small to enjoy).
some mods on the 400i might fix some problems, but I don't have time to play around with them, so mine must go as well despite being cheap. the 400i was treble canyon to me, it was a no go.