[munchzilla]

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Is an RE-400 hooked up directly to a 5th gen Shuffle overkill?
 
I mean, would I really be able to hear some of the goodness the 400's are capable of, or should I just purchase cheaper IEM's of less quality?

I'd say it'll work more than fine. they aren't very difficult to drive it seems. worked great from iPad (latest gen) and iPhone 4S too.

 

[vwinter]

Heir 4 ai is a seriously flawed product: http://rinchoi.blogspot.ca/2012/10/heir-audio-4ai.html

Looks ok to me.

 

[Pianist]

Quote:

Looks ok to me.

 
A 20 db notch at 4 kHz is not OK at all, especially for a $400 headphone.

 

[tinyman392]

Quote:

 
A 20 db notch at 4 kHz is not OK at all, especially for a $400 headphone.

 
There is a flaw n the 4.Ai, you pointed it out.  It does create a warmer, more friendly sound though.  There's also an early roll off in the bass unfortunately as well.

 

[doublea71]

How is the build quality of the RE-400? Any issues to report?

 

[vwinter]

A 20 db notch at 4 kHz is not OK at all, especially for a $400 headphone.

There is a flaw n the 4.Ai, you pointed it out.  It does create a warmer, more friendly sound though.  There's also an early roll off in the bass unfortunately as well.

Apologies. It was half very dry humor half wondering if that's what trolls do (apparently it is). Kind of a humor I pretty much knew wouldn't travel well across copper or optical cable.

On the other hand, this is something I say a lot and you're free to disagree: whether or not say a huge dip like that is "OK" is dependent on the design goal, whether or not they met it and if they expressed that intent well to consumers.

I have no idea in the 4.Ai case what happened.

 

[tinyman392]

Quote:

How is the build quality of the RE-400? Any issues to report?

 
None so far.  some people have complained that the plastic used on the upper half of the IEM is a little too thin or seems fragile.  I haven't had problems with it personally though.
 
Quote:

Apologies. It was half very dry humor half wondering if that's what trolls do (apparently it is). Kind of a humor I pretty much knew wouldn't travel well across copper or optical cable.

On the other hand, this is something I say a lot and you're free to disagree: whether or not say a huge dip like that is "OK" is dependent on the design goal, whether or not they met it and if they expressed that intent well to consumers.

I have no idea in the 4.Ai case what happened.

 
There is a way to do a 4kHz dip without effecting that area of the upper mids/lower treble.  The dips in the 4.Ai takes quite a bit of edge from the vocals while the 3.Ai takes quite a bit away from the lower treble presence, detailing, and extension. 

 

[tigon_ridge]

The 3-4kHz range is critical for rendering consonants, which is an integral part of vocals (obviously). That large dip is the one thing that really withdrew my interest in the 4.ai when I initially read about them months ago*. I kinda forgot about that dip. lol

 

[tinyman392]

Quote:

The 3-4kHz range is critical for rendering consonants, which is an integral part of vocals (obviously). That large dip is the one thing that really withdrew my interest in the 4.ai when I initially read about them months. I kinda forgot about that. lol

 
Definitely does affect vocals in a negative way.

 

[tigon_ridge]

I'm sure with a good equalizer, it should be very fixable. Portable players tend to have sub-par equalizers so that's an issue. It also doesn't help that the 4.ai is already a pretty expensive iem.

 

[FieldingMellish]

Owning RE-272, should I be interested in RE-400?

 

[vwinter]

There is a way to do a 4kHz dip without effecting that area of the upper mids/lower treble.  The dips in the 4.Ai takes quite a bit of edge from the vocals while the 3.Ai takes quite a bit away from the lower treble presence, detailing, and extension. 

One would almost be forgiven for thinking it was on purpose until they started arguing with Rin lol.

The 3-4kHz range is critical for rendering consonants, which is an integral part of vocals (obviously). That large dip is the one thing that really withdrew my interest in the 4.ai when I initially read about them months ago*. I kinda forgot about that dip. lol

That's interesting. would you say it's a harmonics kind of thing or more like how "s" sounds can reach around 9khz because of the breath and shhhh sound?

I'm sure with a good equalizer, it should be very fixable. Portable players tend to have sub-par equalizers so that's an issue. It also doesn't help that the 4.ai is already a pretty expensive iem.

Wait, so you can you can use an equalizer to overcome what looks like a gap from poor crossover implementation? It seems like that means that that portion of the signal just mostly dies out before even reaching the drivers...?

 

[tigon_ridge]

Quote:

One would almost be forgiven for thinking it was on purpose until they started arguing with Rin lol.
That's interesting. would you say it's a harmonics kind of thing or more like how "s" sounds can reach around 9khz because of the breath and shhhh sound?
Wait, so you can you can use an equalizer to overcome what looks like a gap from poor crossover implementation? It seems like that means that that portion of the signal just mostly dies out before even reaching the drivers...?

I think the 's' sound can extend upwards to 20kHz, but it can begin as early as around 6kHz. The 4kHz region is to me more associated with consonants like 'k', 'ch', and 'd.' I think it does also affect the harmonics, therefore tone, of certain instruments. I don't know about crossover implementations, but there is rarely a FR flaw that can't be amended by a good equalizer. There's a nice old thread of the subject of equalization.

 

[munchzilla]

sooo... RE-600 to be shipped by end of June according to customer services. hope the wait is worth it.

 

[Tympan]

Depends on what you are looking for. I have the 272, 262, 400 and enjoy them all for different reasons. 
 
To me, the 272 are more accurate and uncolored sounding with pretty refined highs and good imaging/depth.
When switching to the 400, my first impression is: "liquid, buttery smooth sound". They almost make my 272 sound dry/harsh in comparison! Imaging is comparable but the 400's depth feels more out of the head/distant and as a result, I have the tendency to raise the volume one notch with the 400 to get comparable "immersion".
 
If you enjoy the 272 and are looking for a slightly different sound flavor, I don't see how you would not enjoy the 400. They are great and as easy to EQ as the 272. Plus just like the 272, they are easy to drive and sound great without any amp (I get excellent sound with my iphone 4 and Accudio Pro lossless player)
But if you are looking for an upgrade that takes all the existing 272's strengths to another level, the 400 won't do that. I would get a Balanced Hifiman HM-801 instead or upgrade source and amp as your budget allows.
 
Overall, I would only recommend the 272 over the 400 to someone either looking for the most uncolored/accurate sound and/or someone who already has a balanced Hifiman HM801 or better source/amp (in which case, 272 > 400)... 
 
Hope it helps ; )