[tinyman392]

Quote:

Thank you sir. Sweet sweet vindication!

Were you talking about the vocals on the 600 or the 400 btw?

 
You're most welcome.  The vocals comparison was in contrast to one another.  Vocals are more dynamic on the RE-600. 
 
 
Quote:

Finally! Great write-up Tinyman. Your impression is helping me get closer to a decisive conclusion between the two. You're a legend mate! Thanks.

 
Thanks, glad I can help

 

[proedros]

how much better would you say the re-600 is compared to the re-400 ?
 
also , since i have re-400 and re-272 , would acquiring re-600 be a luxury or a necessity ?

 

[vwinter]

You're most welcome.  The vocals comparison was in contrast to one another.  Vocals are more dynamic on the RE-600. 

Makes sense. I couldn't get a feel for that in my short listen so good to know.

When I say something like I did in my last post, I try to ignore that damn graph James posted recently in the ASG-2 thread lol.

 

[gnarlsagan]

Makes sense. I couldn't get a feel for that in my short listen so good to know.

When I say something like I did in my last post, I try to ignore that damn graph James posted recently in the ASG-2 thread lol.

James seriously shattered my worldview with that graph lol. I want to end all my impressions with "but it doesn't really matter what I hear."

 

[vwinter]

James seriously shattered my worldview with that graph lol. I want to end all my impressions with "but it doesn't really matter what I hear."

Lol, all impressions should now only describe bass and treble frequencies above ~5k.

 

[eke2k6]

Quote:

Lol, all impressions should now only describe bass and treble frequencies above ~5k.

 
Quote:

James seriously shattered my worldview with that graph lol. I want to end all my impressions with "but it doesn't really matter what I hear."

 
 
x2! How am I supposed to have heated arguments over sound now?

 

[james444]

Quote:

Surprise! 

 
Sweet! If I may ask, is this a HiFiMAN demo unit, so my own RE600 loan tour will be redundant? 

 
Quote:

The signature differences are actually quite small going from RE-400 to RE-600, but they are there.  The signature changes from a warm signature to a warm and sweet one.  Treble does get a little softer, but smoother.  The RE-600's treble seems a lot less edgy and sharp in contrast to the RE-400.  The RE-600 seems to extend a little further than the RE-400 though.  I think this might be more perception as the treble is less peaky as a whole.  Bass presence has increased a little bit while depth as as well.  Clarity actually sounds a little more clear and refined coming from the RE-400, the difference is minute, but there.  Vocals are the part that will make the biggest difference.  They are more lively as a whole.  They allow much better dynamics in the voice by being able to get more lush, but also provide more energy.  HiFiMan didn't move much from their standard signature (only heard the RE-0, RE-400, and RE-600), but the differences are there. 
 
Most of these differences are shown in the measurements that both Tyll and Rin did BTW.  But of course, the graph readers didn't read it like this.  The analysis of objective data is subjective at its core, remember that. 

 
Thanks for your detailed impressions! Tbh, I was wondering why you didn't apply for the RE600 loan tour... now I know!  

 
Btw, care to eleborate which of the described differences (that the graph readers didn't get) were shown in the measurements?
 
Quote:

James seriously shattered my worldview with that graph lol. I want to end all my impressions with "but it doesn't really matter what I hear."

Quote:

Lol, all impressions should now only describe bass and treble frequencies above ~5k.

 
Lol guys, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater, that was just one example of how people may indeed hear differently, not a general rule.
 
Oh, and of course your impressions will at least matter to everyone who's established a common reference point, e.g. by hearing a phone you both own similarly.

 

[gnarlsagan]

Lol guys, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater, that was just one example of how people may indeed hear differently, not a general rule.

Oh, and of course your impressions will at least matter to everyone who's established a common reference point, e.g. by hearing a phone you both own similarly.

That is very true. But we're just upset that now we have to be annoyingly open-minded about other people's dumb and previously clearly wrong impressions.

 

[tinyman392]

Quote:

how much better would you say the re-600 is compared to the re-400 ?
 
also , since i have re-400 and re-272 , would acquiring re-600 be a luxury or a necessity ?

 
It's almost just about a complete step up (I wouldn't call this a side upgrade) if you're looking for things from the technical musical standpoint.  If you are looking for true neutral accuracy, it would be a step down in the treble, wash in the mids, up in the bass...  Then again, the RE-272 measures more neutral than any of them I haven't heard the RE-272, so I do suggest you wait before upgrading though until someone who has both in hand can compare them (avoid comparisons from memory as they tend to skew, I don't think I need to say that, but will anyways). 
 
The question becomes, how large of an upgrade qualifies as being worth 300 dollars. 
 
Quote:

Makes sense. I couldn't get a feel for that in my short listen so good to know.

When I say something like I did in my last post, I try to ignore that damn graph James posted recently in the ASG-2 thread lol.

 
They still hold the HiFiMan signature, keep that in mind.  The differences are there, but minute if you aren't accustomed to the RE-400 signature (or RE-600). 
 
Quote:

 
Sweet! If I may ask, is this a HiFiMAN demo unit, so my own RE600 loan tour will be redundant? 

 
 
Thanks for your detailed impressions! Tbh, I was wondering why you didn't apply for the RE600 loan tour... now I know!  

 
Btw, care to eleborate which of the described differences (that the graph readers didn't get) were shown in the measurements?
 
 
Lol guys, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater, that was just one example of how people may indeed hear differently, not a general rule.
 
Oh, and of course your impressions will at least matter to everyone who's established a common reference point, e.g. by hearing a phone you both own similarly.

 
This is a HiFiMan sample, yes.  And that was the reason why I didn't apply.  Your loan tour will still be of use, more impressions can always be useful in a tour.
 
The differences I described are all actually in the graphs that Tyll took.  So the readers did get it, but they didn't get that interpretation that I gave (subjectively).  What I meant was that Tylls graphs can be used to support my subjective impressions (bass, mids, and treble).  Inks decided to focus on the treble, two small areas of Tyll's graphs, the 6-9 kHz region on the left driver and a spike at the 13-15kHz (?).  This is where he got the statement that the RE-400 has less treble.  The issue is that it was only in one driver. 
 
The graphs do show a bump in the upper midrange (1-2kHz region) which would account for my vocals being more dynamic.  The bass is bumped 1-2 dB going from the RE-400 to RE-600 (as measured by Tyll) would do the slight presence increase.  I feel the midrange change is the most noticeable, it's what slams you right away.  The one thing that isn't explained too well on the graph is the refined midrange clarity I heard in the RE-600... 
 
Keep in mind, these are initial impressions, but they do look promising.  I'm going to let these burn in and let the new toy feeling wear off and give full impressions later (at least 1 week in the future ). 
 
_________
 
EDIT: I'm adding in a tidbit on the tips included with the RE-600 that I got.  It's actually quite a few tips.  Although, after tip rolling, I'm sticking with the same, filter-bar'd, single-flange tip. 
 

Picture isn't the best quality, it's tough getting clear tips to show up properly on a white background anyways  
Top row (from left to right): 2 Small bullet single-flange, 2 Medium single-flange*, 2 Medium Asymmetrical**, 2 Comply Foam Medium, 2 Comply Foam Large.
Bottom Row (from left to right): 4 Small Dual flange***, 4 Small Filter-bar'd Single Flange***, 2 Small Hybrid Single-Dual Flanged****, 2 Large Dual-Flanged***
 
*Shaped like a UE tip.
**Shaped like the tips found on the original Apple IEM (non-dual driver)
***Originals Included with the RE-400
****This is an odd tip that looks like a dual-flange with the front and rear flange actually connected to create one flange. 
 
If you have any questions about the tips, please let me know.  If you want more pictures, let me know, I'll try to get better ones tomorrow. 

 

[Inks]

Will get these tomorrow! Will get a RE400 soon, let the match begin! Let's see if adding a damper to RE400 does the trick...
 
FYI Dr.Olive has also shown how consistent perception and rating is among listeneres, there's another graph for it....lol, don't have it handy with me at the moment. 

 

[nehcrow]

So what are the best tips to use with the Re-400?
Foam tips don't have enough energy for me, I do like the sound from stock black double flanged tips but are they bested by any other tips?

 

[tinyman392]

Quote:

So what are the best tips to use with the Re-400?
Foam tips don't have enough energy for me, I do like the sound from stock black double flanged tips but are they bested by any other tips?

 
If you trust measurements and feel your ear's shape is comparable to the tube coupler that Rin has (it's call an ear simulator, that might make you feel better), then the single-flange with the filter bar will be the choice...  If you don't feel that confident in your ear's shape being like said coupler, then test tips yourself using the Sensaphonics seal test.  It'll get you the best result for the most complete seal. 
 
Personally, I'm using the single-flange with the filter bar, I guess my ear is close enough to Rin's tube coupler...  Yours might not though  
 
Also, have you tried using foams in a way that doesn't attenuate the highs as much?  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7Zc5meSooI

 

[jgwtriode]

So what are the best tips to use with the Re-400?
Foam tips don't have enough energy for me, I do like the sound from stock black double flanged tips but are they bested by any other tips?

Yes! But I agree that the stock large bi flange sound better than any other standard options! My modded tips which their are pictures of back a few pages on the thread do sound better but they take some work. You also have to cut most of the upper flange of just leaving edges around the top to hold earplug foam sleeve in place. Very slight bass improvement and a slightly sweeter upper mid to high frequency balance. You can also try a thin layer of double knit above the foam inside the nozzle. These small changes make a very satisfying overall improvement. I also slightly equalizd the low to mid bass. Wonderful!

 

[audiobot]

"2 Small Hybrid Single-Dual Flang"
 
I am using these since they don't go entirely deep into my ear canal like the filtrd tips. Sound is amazing on these iems. I am coming over from my beloved fx700. Definitely going to take a better look at the "2 Medium Asymmetrical**" tips. May be too large for my canal. No cable noise when worn down. This is a huge plus as the re400 suffered from noise when wearing cable down.

 

[Inks]

Got these today.
 
It's a RE262 upgrade for sure, very similar signature, midrange focused with soft treble and bass. 
 
RE272 upgrade? I can't compare them side-by-side, but the RE272 impressed me quite more, despite taking issue with it's bass. At most it's a RE272 sidegrade. RE272 is clearer and more airy, even though it wont have the 400s "sweetness". Will compare them side-by-side to RE400 soon, will mod RE400 to match RE600 and compare as well. 
 
They don't stand a chance to my BDD+NE or my modded 9927..
 
More details later.