[Audio Addict]

I first noticed it in a post by Audio Addict, a few pages back.
I quoted it here a few posts up.
No idea if it's true or not but it's would be crazy expensive even with a speaker amp built in.
In that size I doubt the speaker amp part would be very powerful.

When I asked that was the ballpark price they thought but was not finalized. As they commented later in the thread, it was not determined.

 

[jerg]

We know and they probably know that they won't sell nearly as many EF1000s as the headphones (HE1000s), and if that's the case then it makes sense that the amp's price has to be a lot higher because they won't be able to coup back the R&D costs and make net profit in a timely manner otherwise.

 

[onlychild]

These are very efficient headphones. I had a chance to listen to them at Axpona yesterday running off my RWAK240+ to RSA Lightning amp and they sounded incredible. I personally don't feel like you need a powerful amp to make theses shine. The Lightning was only on medium gain too.

I was also amazed by how light and comfortable they are.

 

[ruthieandjohn]

These are very efficient headphones. I had a chance to listen to them at Axpona yesterday running off my RWAK240+ to RSA Lightning amp and they sounded incredible. I personally don't feel like you need a powerful amp to make theses shine. The Lightning was only on medium gain too.

I was also amazed by how light and comfortable they are.

I wonder what the specifications for a good amp for the HE-1000 would be.  We've talked about brands and models (e.g., HiFiMAN EF-6, EF-1000, Geek Pulse, etc., etc.)
 
Sensitivity of the HE-1000 is listed as 90 dB; impedance is listed at 35 +/- 5 ohms.
 
Now with THOSE numbers, what other specs do you need (e.g., balanced, vs. single ended)?
 
And with that full set of numbers, what amp specs are required?
 
With that, we have a way of looking at our favorite amp and assessing its suitability for the HE-1000.

 

[potkettleblack]

Any comparisons to the Stax line.

 

[money4me247]

  I wonder what the specifications for a good amp for the HE-1000 would be.  We've talked about brands and models (e.g., HiFiMAN EF-6, EF-1000, Geek Pulse, etc., etc.) Sensitivity of the HE-1000 is listed as 90 dB; impedance is listed at 35 +/- 5 ohms. Now with THOSE numbers, what other specs do you need (e.g., balanced, vs. single ended) And with that full set of numbers, what amp specs are required? With that, we have a way of looking at our favorite amp and assessing its suitability for the HE-1000.

use the spreadsheet here to calculate what specifications you will need from the amplifer: http://www.apexhifi.com/specs.html
 
just note that a lot of amplifiers manufacturers do not publish full power specification, so this exercise might not be as helpful as you would like.

 

[ruthieandjohn]

use the spreadsheet here to calculate what specifications you will need from the amplifer: http://www.apexhifi.com/specs.html
 
just note that a lot of amplifiers manufacturers do not publish full power specification, so this exercise might not be as helpful as you would like.

 


So using the HiFiMAN HE-1000 specs of 35 ohms headphone impedance and 90 dB sensitivity, and choosing a rock-concert-sized max volume of 110 dB, I use the spreadsheet to find:

Headphone power calculator

Headphone sensitivity (dBSPL @ 1 milliwat) 90
Headphone impedance (ohms) 35

Desired loudness (dBSPL) 110

Required power (milliwatts) 100
Required voltage (volts RMS) 1.87
Required current (millamps RMS) 53.5

... I need 100 mW into 35 ohms.

Hence, for example, the Oppo HA-2 iDevice-compatible DAC/amp, which puts 220 mW into 32 ohms, ought to be just fine (assuming it does not suddenly drop its input power, given at 32 ohms, more than a factor of two to get up to the 35 ohms + / - 5 ohms of the HE-1000).

Right?




$299.00.

And furthermore, if I am willing to settle for a volume of just 1 dB less, or 109 dB, I can even use my Beyerdynamic matchbook-sized DAC/amp, which puts out 1.7 Vrms into that load:

 

[money4me247]

@kayandjohn, that seems right... though that is a surprisingly low amount of power required. the majority of amplifiers will output at least 100mW at 32 ohms. even the herus which is really just a dac has 126mW at 32ohms and the audioquest usb dac has 125mW at 32ohms (though those are maximum power specs I believe).
 
however, a lot of people here believe in having a lot of extra power for 'headroom.' also, there was someone who said that Dr. Fang stated that the Chord Hugo's amplifier isn't good enough to maximize the HE-1000's potential (600mW at 32 ohms).
 
so who really knows. guess we'll have to see what people think once they get beta units.

 

[ruthieandjohn]

  @kayandjohn, that seems right... though that is a surprisingly low amount of power required. the majority of amplifiers will output at least 100mW at 32 ohms. even the herus which is really just a dac has 126mW at 32ohms and the audioquest usb dac has 125mW at 32ohms (though those are maximum power specs I believe).
 
however, a lot of people here believe in having a lot of extra power for 'headroom.' also, there was someone who said that Dr. Fang stated that the Chord Hugo's amplifier isn't good enough to maximize the HE-1000's potential (600mW at 32 ohms).
 
so who really knows. guess we'll have to see what people think once they get beta units.

@money4me247  your information is most helpful.
 
Yes, it surprised me too that the specs indicate that so little power is required.
 
That sort of gets back to my question about specs, in particular any "missing" specs (e.g., you need headroom of factor of 10 in power to really make the HE-1000 shine, or... you really need power that comes from a *tube* amp rather than a solid state amp - and what spec would actually capture THAT??)
 
So when it is stated that "the Chord Hugo amplifier isn't good enough, though it provides 600 mW into 32 ohm,"  then what *spec* on the HE-1000 data sheet does that translate to?
 
Or if it does NOT translate to a spec on the headphone data sheet, what spec on the amplifier data sheet needs to be met (e.g., must have more than 6X the 100 mW power factor that calculations give to work really well?)
 
I'm not picking on the HE-1000 - just using it as an example.
 
For the much older Sennheiser HD 800, there is a whole litany of amps "deemed" to work well with it and another litany of amps deemed not to work well with it.  So how do the specs of these two types differ?
 
Or do specs not capture the match between headphone and amp?

 

[money4me247]

@kayandjohn,
 
mmm... for headroom, I think that 1W extra is generally more than enough. some people like 2W or more extra, but that seems really excessive. beyond the power required for transient peaks, the rest of the extra power doesn't do anything. one problem with specs is that sometimes the amplifier power ratings is peak/maximum power rather than average power (RMS). peak power does not reflect realistic operation as it is simply the max power that can be generated but the amplifier may only generate that much power in short bursts. RMS wattage ratings measures continuous power which is more indicative of your amplifier's capabilities.
 
some info about headroom: http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/feb10/articles/qa0210_4.htm
 
for tubes vs solid state. tubes introduce harmonic distortion that can be very enjoyable. the tube sound is generally described "warm & rich." people say this is because tube amplifiers have more even order harmonic distortion. this wikipedia article may be interesting if you want to learn more about some general design differences between amplifier topology: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tube_sound#Harmonic_content_and_distortion. there seems to be a lot of variations you can get with amplifier performance based on components and implementation as well, though I am not aware what measurements reflect that or if it may just be placebo effect/expectation bias.
 
funny side story: there was actually an experiment where some smart@ss audiophile had two boxes labelled tube amplifier vs solid state with a switch that made a large clunking sound. the switch actually didn't do anything and the music always played out of the same amplifier. he found that engineers usually picked the 'solid state option' to sound better while audiophiles generally picked the 'tube option' to be better. I think only one person realized that it was the same amplifier.
 
for the chord hugo not being good enough, I have no idea. It was something another head-fier said Dr. Fang told him, so you would have to ask the good doctor himself why he thinks that.
 
for the hd800, its sound signature is a bit on the brighter side. many people are a bit averse to really sharp treble. a warmer amplifier would be helpful to alleviate that. the HD800 is very resolving and detailed, so it can pick up a lot of fine details (or problems) in your source/source components. people have a variety of different sound signatures preferences and different upstream components, so finding the right match with all of that is probably more subjective preferences than spec-orientated.

 

[jibzilla]

  @kayandjohn, that seems right... though that is a surprisingly low amount of power required. the majority of amplifiers will output at least 100mW at 32 ohms. even the herus which is really just a dac has 126mW at 32ohms and the audioquest usb dac has 125mW at 32ohms (though those are maximum power specs I believe).
 
however, a lot of people here believe in having a lot of extra power for 'headroom.' also, there was someone who said that Dr. Fang stated that the Chord Hugo's amplifier isn't good enough to maximize the HE-1000's potential (600mW at 32 ohms).
 
so who really knows. guess we'll have to see what people think once they get beta units.

Yeah but do you want to completely max out your amp? I have noticed that distortion kicks in on most amps towards the end of gain. It's funny you used the apex site as I plan to use a peak/volcano. Using the lcd-x as a benchmark it should be perfect as the lcd-x does not have allot of headroom but sounds to die for with it. 2 watts will leave you in the same place as I am with the X, little headroom, although you have to watch out for peak and rms. Another thing is to watch the gain 1 watt into 33 ohms may not sound like allot for the peak/volcano but it has 23db of gain which is quite on the high side so I suspect it will have plenty of power into the he1k. 

 

[Audio Addict]

I also listened yesterday using the LHLabs Pulse Infinity. They did sound very good using the Infinity. You won't need the $10,000 HiFiMAN amp to really enjoy them.

I had some time today and first did the Pulse Infinity but was able to then switch over to the HiFiMAN tube amp with 8 wpc and listen to the same 4 tracks. Big mistake. The HE1000 scaled up so well that they took on another dimension. HE6 amp chase all over again unless you start with Fang's amp

 

[preproman]

I had some time today and first did the Pulse Infinity but was able to then switch over to the HiFiMAN tube amp with 8 wpc and listen to the same 4 tracks. Big mistake. The HE1000 scaled up so well that they took on another dimension. HE6 amp chase all over again unless you start with Fang's amp

 
Or a Nelson Pass amp 

 

[Oregonian]

   
Or a Nelson Pass amp 

Or a Pioneer Spec amp..................

 

[speedracer1]

Oh the 10K for the amp itself and from my conversation directly with Fang:
 
speedracer1's chat with Fang: http://www.head-fi.org/t/748334/hifiman-he1000-planar-dynamic-flagship/2805#post_11458693
 
-speed