[Maxx134]

Make that two customers lost because of the jerg sub-bass fiasco.  With the Oppo PM-1 soon out, I returned my HE-4, and will not pursue Hifiman any longer!

I would suggest you wait for Frank's review/comparison to both.
He already pointed put how the he560 are excellent for stings so we will see how the oppo holds up. I trust Frank.

..

 At most you get an atonal ambient rumble you don't even feel with headphones... No pitches of notes to distinguish = no musical value...


.. I'm just extremely hesitant about this mod not having ANY acoustical effects on reproduction instead of the boost in sub bass ...
.  

I think it is kind of naive to think sub-bass DOES NOT play a MAJOR role in any and all music....

We need to hear "more" than just a certain frequency range..
We need all frequency range to give a "life-like" realism..

Sub-bass plays a part in the all important "ambiance", "echo", "reflections" space of all NoN instruments as well...
We can determine the size of the room, or place... with sub bass.

We can hear the rumble of the chorus feet, the organ pedals, the bombs bursting in air...

We can and need to hear EVERYTHING...

Impact, size, weight, substance, realism..
All uses sub-bass.

So if you want to limit yourself to non-sub-bass.."sound"...
Then it won't sound as real...
As if you are there.

Then you might as well throw away your sub woofers and listen to some "no bass" cheapo dollar earbuds..

 

[Ultramus]

I would suggest you wait for Frank's review/comparison to both.
He already pointed put how the he560 are excellent for stings so we will see how the oppo holds up. I trust Frank.
I think it is kind of naive to think sub-bass DOES NOT play a MAJOR role in any and all music....

We need to hear "more" than just a certain frequency range..
We need all frequency range to give a "life-like" realism..

Sub-bass plays a part in the all important "ambiance", "echo", "reflections" space of all NoN instruments as well...
We can determine the size of the room, or place... with sub bass.

We can hear the rumble of the chorus feet, the organ pedals, the bombs bursting in air...

We can and need to hear EVERYTHING...

Impact, size, weight, substance, realism..
All uses sub-bass.

So if you want to limit yourself to non-sub-bass.."sound"...
Then it won't sound as real...
As if you are there.

Then you might as well throw away your sub woofers and listen to some "no bass" cheapo dollar earbuds..

 
Could not agree more, sub-bass is more important than just to a basshead, that's a very myopic thinking, sub bass gives perspective to the rest of the frequency range, everything has a broader sense of scale based on the highest of the highs and the lowest of the lows. Sub-bass is as important in hip-hop or rock as it is in jazz and classical, there is never a situation in which having it is worth, and if they can add it in and not affect anything else, by all means it will be for the better. Fang and co. have pretty much only delivered high quality products for long enough now that I trust their judgement on these things.

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

  How good is the HE-560 in replicating the dynamics and tonal balance of pianos? Most headphones I know usually cant pull this one off very well.

 
 

  The HE-6 was a piano beast. Since the 560 is a cross of the two [500 & 6] I imagine it'll do just as good!
And piano is classified as a string instrument

 
I posted the same thing, either here or in my review (see link in my signature).

 

[davidsh]

Low sub bass and extended treble do contribute to 'realism' to some extend, especially the 'ambience'. I might try a roll off from 60 Hz and 10 kHz just for the sake of it, could be interesting.

 

[electropop]

I would suggest you wait for Frank's review/comparison to both.
He already pointed put how the he560 are excellent for stings so we will see how the oppo holds up. I trust Frank.
I think it is kind of naive to think sub-bass DOES NOT play a MAJOR role in any and all music....

We need to hear "more" than just a certain frequency range..
We need all frequency range to give a "life-like" realism..

Sub-bass plays a part in the all important "ambiance", "echo", "reflections" space of all NoN instruments as well...
We can determine the size of the room, or place... with sub bass.

We can hear the rumble of the chorus feet, the organ pedals, the bombs bursting in air...

We can and need to hear EVERYTHING...

Impact, size, weight, substance, realism..
All uses sub-bass.

So if you want to limit yourself to non-sub-bass.."sound"...
Then it won't sound as real...
As if you are there.

Then you might as well throw away your sub woofers and listen to some "no bass" cheapo dollar earbuds..

 
I agree. If you seek perfect reproduction and involvement in the sound scape, you need to have coherent holistic representation. I just think it's quite moot when we're talking about headphones. I don't really listen to soundstage or anything in regards to room size or similar stuff... What I seek in a headphone is good separation in both instruments and most importantly musical detail, ie. relative pitch differentiation. It seems this headphone might make many of these particular qualities a subjective reality.
 
I prioritize the aforementioned qualities even so much, that I rocked a pair of Linn Akurate 212's (start rolling off after 70Hz) for two years, until I found better. I never at any point thought about getting a sub woofer. Have a slim chance at making that whole picture work in a symmetric apartment... But this is about priorities and tastes to an extent. It's as you say, we need to hear everything, but if you have even a decent subwoofer that doesn't fully integrate, you're not hearing everything, just more of something. But I've never heard a good sub integration with my own ears. I'm sure I'm just inexperienced. 
 
Back to the discussion of HE560! Let's say we trust this and say the low fundamentals of a double bass really do go to 30Hz. The HE400 also goes there dead flat. I would personally be fine with that. Lower than that and we're talking about either a pipe organ, noise or artificially produced deep bass (electronic music). Sure, if the music is simple in its nature and is focused on that low beat, it's fun to tune in on the woop woop. For instrumental music though, since it has a really marginal role, as I've said not even musical, I can't fathom how it's attained such a status and importance (deep bass). If you don't agree that's fine. But I'm sure people at least agree its apparent value is disproportionate to the musical content of almost any genre. 

 

[electropop]

  Jerg: Yo Dawg try this out for mooaaarrr bass
 
Fang: Aite

 
Hahaa, good one. Need I say this is exactly how I thought it would go! Fang is Jerg's bitch and all that. Kinda like Dre and Noel Lee, or his son. Can't quite remember how that exactly went.
 
Ah, forget that sarcasm is often misinterpreted. "JK" is probably in order. There. 

 

[davidsh]

We might want sub bass to hear everything from the recording, even the ambience that isn't 'musical'?
 
By the way, 5 stringed electric bass guitar can go to 25 Hz as I remember.

 

[electropop]

That's probably just noise from the bass amplifier. I think the fundamental of a low B of a 5 string is at about 30Hz, but I'm not sure. Rarely do you get clean reproduction of a note that low, though. I don't think I've ever heard it, electric or even acoustic. 
 
Say I was listening to music by a bass genius, like Jaco Pastorius or Pekka Pohjola. Rarely do (did) they wallow at that low. The priority thus lies in keeping >50Hz as clean as possible, so the musical detail can get through. But I won't make the assumption yet, that the talked mod would ruin this by anyway. If it did though, I think I would gladly give away the extension sub 30Hz. All my opinion and priorities of course, ymmv's and all that. 

 

[daerron]

I can't say I'm that bothered all that much by the 50Hz roll-off on my little KEF LS50 stand mount speakers and that is coming from having full range floor standing speakers prior to these. Its what they do elsewhere in the frequency range and their technical competencies that is pretty amazing. Of course stand mount speakers can be supplemented with dedicated subwoofers, whilst headphone don't have that luxury. I really think the importance of sub-bass for most music is overstated, except if your main listening genres are electronic and dubstep music. The LS50s clearly show how weak the HE-500s are at imaging and sound staging and I presume the HE-6 to have similar weaknesses, which must be down to the way Hifiman design their headphones at the time.
 
I'm concerned that Hifiman seems to be spending too much time on designing the perfect "Porsche" of headphones. Personally as a big fan of Hifiman I'm cautiously looking forward to their next super car, the HE-560 seems to trim the HE-500s weight issues and aesthetics, but does it fix the vague steering and somewhat bumpy suspension? I'm looking for progress on the latter... or do I have to wait for the next super car, rather than hoping the HE-560 takes the HE-500 into super car territory?

 

[davidsh]

^In 'Home' by Michael Buble there's a bass guitar that reaches extremely low.

 

[conquerator2]

I personally want this headphone to be an all-in-one, meaning it is to excel in everything I throw at it. All sorts of genres, movies and gaming. Even though sub-bass is not part of all genres it is a part of the frequency spectrum and it is utilized in some. It gains more importance with movies and games, where sub-bass is utilized much more liberally.
The baffle fix improves bass conductivity only, therefore it does not impair other frequencies in any way, form or shape. It is something that absolutely won't hinder anything.
The K612 Pro, being a very neutral headphone, is very even sounding, with flat extension down to the sub-bass.
Sub-bass doesn't intrude other frequencies. I've been listening to many genres with it, along with gaming and movies and I can tell you that properly implemented _{bass does not leak and is there only when present in the recording.
Never did I feel the bass being out of place - it was only there when needed/present in the source and it certainly does not affect genres where there is none.
I take properly integrated sub for uneven one any day, even if one does not need it, it certainly will be beneficial for most of us and it won't affect your listening negatively...
Why boycott an easy fix, assuming the above is true and it really affects the sub-bass only.}

 

[tuna47]

When did this become a discussion of all aspects of sub bass I thought this was a impression thread

 

[MattTCG]

^^ I'd vote for more impressions and comparisons. Many are coming to this thread trying to decide if they should buy the 560. I would appreciate more in depth comparisons directly with other hp's in the HFM line. 

 

[conquerator2]

Well they ain't rolling. Jerg posted his in-depth and that's about it so far...

 

[jerg]

Frank said he will soon publish his comprehensive writeup with HE560 and how it matches against competitive planars/cans in general, I think that'll quench the thirst for everyone for a little while.